Lily

6190 Views 73 Replies 25 Participants Last post by Golden Gibby, 12 d ago

SRW

Discussion Starter · 9 mo ago

Thanks for all the kind words about Lily and her derby win. She was a very good girl and basically made no mistakes, which is what it takes to win most derbies. I’ve been working on her line manners quite a bit lately and that made a big difference. Two of her littermates we’re also running. A sister was doing very well up until the last bird and ended up with a jam. A brother went out in the third series but that dog already has a Derby win and another placement.
We will be running one or two more Derby’s this fall and then probably going to the national derby championship in Sedalia Missouri. Already booked an Airbnb and I know they need a lot of help at the event.

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SRW

Discussion Starter · #61 · 2 mo ago

Just found this video. We ran this trial, Lily had a hunt in the first and was not called back. Jake got Reserve JAM.
The land blind was actually fairly simple. I am surprised this dog was called back after this, must have had very good marks in the 1st.

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LéChasse17

· #62 · 2 mo ago

SRW said:
Just found this video. We ran this trial, Lily had a hunt in the first and was not called back. Jake got Reserve JAM.
The land blind was actually fairly simple. I am surprised this dog was called back after this, must have had very good marks in the 1st.

Thanks for the video.
I loved seeing the crisp stops from this dog!
This is a constant struggle with Bobby, she hears the whistle stops and slowly turns and sits. Drives me nuts!

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SRW

Discussion Starter · #63 · 2 mo ago

LéChasse17 said:
This is a constant struggle with Bobby, she hears the whistle stops and slowly turns and sits. Drives me nuts!

Lots of retrievers need "continuing education" to maintain a quick sit. I like to do much of it separate from field training,

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SRW

Discussion Starter · #64 · 2 mo ago

This is the 3rd series water blind. It was tougher than the land blind.
Just past the 1 minute mark the dog crosses the first piece of water and gets to the sliver of land to the right of the sluice gunner. You can see the dog go into a brief hunt before the handler whistles and casts. This is because the judges instructed the gunner to pick feathers from a duck and scatter them there. That is actually a rule violation. I don't have a problem with it but they could have dragged a bag of wet birds around, it is just as effective and not a rule violation.

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Golden Gibby

· #65 · 2 mo ago

We just did a lining drill on a pond yesterday where the dogs had to swim past the scent cone of a burlap bag of wet ducks..😁
Older dogs not much issue with it. Younger dogs required a little more work but they learned from it.

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SRW

Discussion Starter · #66 · 1 mo ago

This was the 4th series of the Red River Am in Texas. A nice test, wide open triple, flier on the left, long retired in the center and a short retired hen pheasant on the right, all marks thrown to the left. Wind was from about 4 o'clock when standing at the line.
I remember watching this dog run. He cheated the water in route to the short retired but seemed to remember the mark. Then he popped just several feet upwind of the bird??? The dog should have been handled immediately after the pop. A long pop is worse and then you have to handle anyway. Very easy mistake to make and you are probably already getting green at best anyway.
The short retired was the most difficult for most dogs but the long retired got some answers as well.

Jake did a really nice job on this test.

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FTGoldens

· #67 · 1 mo ago

Hey SRW,
Thanks for posting that video!
FTG

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diane0905

· #68 · 1 mo ago

I’m catching up. Thanks for sharing these. Trying to learn from your descriptions as I watch.

SRW

Discussion Starter · #69 · 1 mo ago

SRW said:
Lily's green JAM ribbon in the Q last weekend was due to cheating water in the last series. She has no aversion to water but knows there is a faster route, "speed cheat" is how many describe it. The problem is it throws a dog off course and often results in a hunt on the mark. Also, taking the most direct routes is always preferred. I think we had a chance at blue or red coming into the 4th.
We worked on one cheaty water mark yesterday and will every day this week.
The mark yesterday was very black and white and ran as a single. The bird was thrown into the water along the far shore of a pond for a nice splash. The direct route was clearly through the pond. The fast route was clearly around it by land. Lily chose the faster route. I let her get halfway around the pond, stopped her with the whistle, then no no here with continuous collar pressure as she came back around the shore. In this case I brought her all the way back to the line and had the mark thrown again. The second time she chose wisely and took the wet route.
In some cases I will just call the dog back to the point where they deviated from the correct route, then stop and cast. Calling a dog back off a mark is pressure and the collar is obviously pressure. Calling a dog all the way back is more pressure than calling in part way and casting.
Lily has no issues with low drive or enthusiasm, quite the opposite. If that were not the case I might handle it differently.
The level of collar pressure to use in a situation like this is important. Lily did it correctly on the second send. I got the correct response, indicating that the correct amount of pressure was used. If she had chosen to run the shore again it would have indicated too little pressure was used and she thought it was worth it to try again.
Too much pressure will make a dog nervous on the line, not wanting to look out in the field, possibly no-go on the send, lose confidence.....
IMO, it is also important to call the dog back calmly, not angrily. We work on this in basic yard work, no-no drills. Lily was being a bit naughty but collar pressure and being called back in was plenty of pressure. Just a calm 'no-no here' was enough verbal. Nothing damages confidence and enthusiasm more than harsh verbal correction. Save that for the times they are really naughty.

Reading through this for no particular reason and feel I should further explain, on the off chance anyone is following.

Lily is a dog with a maniacal level of drive. I take that into consideration when handling , teaching and correcting her.
I want to stress that calling a dog all the way in to the line after a correction should be done very sparingly and not at all with some dogs. It can make them think they have failed. The thought of failure should never enter a retrievers mind, it is never an option or a possibility. I want my dogs to be supremely confident that they will always succeed.

Most of the time in a situation like the water cheat I described, I would call the dog back to the point where the cheat started then stop and cast. In fact we did a very cheaty water mark a couple weeks and that is exactly what I did.
In that instance the cheat was to the right of the water. I stopped her, "no-no" called her back with continuous low collar pressure then stopped her. I then gave a right hand straight back cast, turning her toward the temptation of cheating, challenging her. She took the cast perfectly to the water, good lesson.

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SRW

Discussion Starter · #70 · 14 d ago (Edited)

Last series of the open I judged in Illinois this weekend. 11 of the 55 dogs that started were back for this test.
Left mark first thrown to the right landing in the grass 10 feet from the water.
Right mark second thrown to the left. Dogs pushed off the flier going to one or both retired marks.There is another narrow channel of water the dogs must cross after exiting the larger pond that can be seen. The thrower is actually on one point tossing the bird across water to another point. Dogs blew past this bird on both sides, some going very deep and had to be handled back to the bird. A few dogs did it very well.

The small cedar trees up front were in line with the left mark. The direct route to the left mark was by water all the way to the bird staying off the point in the second pond. Most of the dogs went left of the cedars putting them wide, some went right of it and then over corrected back to the left. In both cases the ended up landing left of the point in the second pond and hunting short and or behind the gun. Most of them worked it out without being handled.
This was a tough test, only the winning dog that won did it without a hunt on any of the marks.

I don't generally like a flier in the middle of a test but it worked out well in this case. The birds were consistent and the shooters did a great job.

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SRW

Discussion Starter · #71 · 14 d ago (Edited)

1st series of the open. Middle first to the right. Right mark second thrown left. Flier to the left third. Middle and right gunners retire under ghillie blankets.
Very tricky terrain, many dogs hunting one or both retired marks and on either side.
34 of 55 made the cut, although few did the test perfectly.

Distances are approximately 275 yards to the right mark, 150 to the middle and 100 to the flier.
Terrain and placement were greater factors than distance.

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Golden Gibby

· #72 · 12 d ago

Just wanted to let you know I’ve appreciated your field trial info and tried to learn from it. I entered my young dog in a derby a couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it. We went out in the third series on a long (400 yard ) mark. It was land into water angle exit then another 200 yards to the bird with the dog loosing sight of the gunner while exiting water. Just something we were not quite prepared for, but still had fun.

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SRW

Discussion Starter · #73 · 12 d ago

Golden Gibby said:
Just wanted to let you know I’ve appreciated your field trial info and tried to learn from it. I entered my young dog in a derby a couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it. We went out in the third series on a long (400 yard ) mark. It was land into water angle exit then another 200 yards to the bird with the dog loosing sight of the gunner while exiting water. Just something we were not quite prepared for, but still had fun.

That's great, hope you give it another try. Derbys can be extremely tough, especially if there's a large entry.
I will be judging a Derby/Q this fall. Never been to the grounds but I can almost guarantee that in at least one series, the dogs will lose sight of the Gunner on the memory mark in route and probably have to push past the first mark with a Gunner in plain sight.

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Golden Gibby

· #74 · 12 d ago

she prob won’t be entering another derby since she ages out in about 3 weeks. We practiced on loosing sight of gunner in route when possible. What I was learned while watching was most of these dogs being young tended to square up on the far bank when exiting the pond taking them off line, then exiting and being off line and unable to see gunner at this point making it a really tough mark. If they held line upon exit they did well. Quite a learning experience.

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