Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We just got a beautiful female Golden pup from a highly reputable breeder. Her strong recommendations to us were NOT to inoculate for Lepto and NOT to use either oral or topical flea/tick meds. The breeder’s reasoning is that we don’t want to use “poisons” on our puppy. At our initial appointment, our vet was equally adamant that we SHOULD do both the Lepto and flea/tick meds. So far, we have not done either treatment, but we are really confused by the lack of consensus on this issue. We would appreciate any help in sorting out this issue.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,996 Posts
Lepto is usually fine, especially if it’s in your area. The older vaccine caused more issues but the newer ones are much less likely too.

If you live in an area with a lot of fleas/ticks, highly recommend treating
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
So I strongly recommend treating for fleas; and treating for ticks if you live on or go camping/hiking in an area with ticks. There are “natural” flea treatments and flea collars that some think are better than topicals. As a groomer, I can tell you if a dog walks in wearing a flea collar, I automatically assume they have fleas because 99% of the time they do. Natural treatments don’t seem to work any better.
Lepto I am still on the fence about. My first golden had such a bad reaction to lepto she nearly died. My second golden, vet convinced me to get it and she was fine. But I did stop giving it to her after a couple of years because of what I researched about it. It only lasts about 6 months (although I think the newer one is supposed to last longer) but most vets only give it annually; so unless you are giving it right before lepto season (it’s been a few years since I did the research but I believe lepto season is spring.), it could offer no protection. But people who have had dogs get lepto say it is horrible. I would recommend researching it for yourself and making the best decision for you and your dog based on what you find.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,751 Posts
Congratulations on your new pup. I can't comment on the Lepto. My Goldens have never gotten the Lepto innoculation.
But absolutely yes to tick prevention. Tick-borne diseases are practically epidemic where I live. My Goldens get once-a-month Nexgard chewable. No bad reaction and it has really worked well.
Going forward, after your pup gets her initial puppy vaccinations, consider titering instead of automatic booster shots. My Golden Chance was titered and his immunity remained high enough throughout his entire lifetime. He never needed any booster shots.
 

·
Kate
Joined
·
23,939 Posts
I think it honestly comes down to where you live and your lifestyles as well....

Fleas are not really a huge issue for us. Our dogs are never boarded, never go to daycare, never do dog parks, etc. I groom my own dogs so they don't even spend time at groomers where other dogs there might come in fully loaded (with worse than fleas, probably based on horror stories I've heard or read). I do dog shows with them, however my guys are not going on trucks with other dogs or typically crated very close to others (have heard horror stories about top 20 type golden retrievers being sent to their handlers loaded with fleas and handlers having to give dawn baths to all their dogs to wipe out the fleas before taking them home).

If you have a flea outbreak with a young puppy - quite honestly I would be more inclined to do the bath with dawn soap. When we brought a very young kitten home last Sept who had fleas - he got the dawn soap bath to avoid having a flea outbreak. Worked fine.

Ticks... are a concern certain times of the year for us. But I do not live in tick hell. Without any prevention, etc.... it is probably you will maybe find 1 tick on your dog in April-June. And that's when I'd give the dogs something like Simparica to cover that month. Knock on wood, that seems to be fine. <= Should add though, growing up in southern MI, we never had ticks like we do today. We will see if ticks become a bigger problem than they are - which case, my approach to tick prevention would be different. Currently it is just as needed.

Lepto - there have been a number of cases in the county where I live + I personally know of dogs who got it. It's not worth the risk not vaccinating for it.

The only times I had a dog have a bad reaction to a vaccine, it was the yearly rabies vaccine. Since our vets switched to the 3 year vax, have not seen any reactions.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
590 Posts
There should not be a one size fits all answer. I don’t believe in running down the list of vaccinations and preventive medications because it’s “the protocol”. Your area and lifestyle will be a large determining factor.

Personally, I have never vaccinated for lepto, have never had a vet suggest it, and have never had an issue. I also rely on natural flea & tick products, but I only use them when we are actively going somewhere with ticks, such as on trails or in the woods. Ticks are a pain in NJ, especially in wooded areas, but it can be managed. Not sure here you live — your area may be similar or not as bad. Fwiw, I’ve never seen a flea anyway.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,527 Posts
You’re not going to get a consistent answer because it varies. Express your concerns/apprehensions to your vet. Hopefully, your vet will listen and have a discussion with you about the risks and benefits for your area. Go with your vet, not a bunch of randos on the internet.

If you must hear from randos, I give Lepto and I give oral flea/tick medication year round, except for one of my dogs who must use a topical by contract, unless there is some medical emergency and she is spayed. At that point, by contract, I can switch to an oral. But, what I or anyone else does, is very likely irrelevant because we don’t know where you live or your lifestyle. Discuss the situation with your vet. If your vet won’t have a genuine risk/benefit discussion, find a new vet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sankari

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
We just got a beautiful female Golden pup from a highly reputable breeder. Her strong recommendations to us were NOT to inoculate for Lepto and NOT to use either oral or topical flea/tick meds. The breeder’s reasoning is that we don’t want to use “poisons” on our puppy. At our initial appointment, our vet was equally adamant that we SHOULD do both the Lepto and flea/tick meds. So far, we have not done either treatment, but we are really confused by the lack of consensus on this issue. We would appreciate any help in sorting out this issue.
I’m in the same exact situation. Breeder says no lepto she was adamant. Spoke with two vets and both highly recommend it especially in my area. I told the vet that the breeder didn’t recommend it and he explained it’s because of the old shot had some side effects but the newer ones are drastically better. He was not dismissive of the breeders recommendations but instead took time to explain which I appreciated. We asked again at our second appointment with another vet at the practice and she gave same advice. Lepto isn’t super common but it’s bad so we decided we will do it. It wasn’t in the contract but breeder really didn’t want us to do it. I decided to go with the vets recommendations who practice in my area and have lots of experience. My breeder came from outside of the area where I live. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
We just got a beautiful female Golden pup from a highly reputable breeder. Her strong recommendations to us were NOT to inoculate for Lepto and NOT to use either oral or topical flea/tick meds. The breeder’s reasoning is that we don’t want to use “poisons” on our puppy. At our initial appointment, our vet was equally adamant that we SHOULD do both the Lepto and flea/tick meds. So far, we have not done either treatment, but we are really confused by the lack of consensus on this issue. We would appreciate any help in sorting out this issue.
Follow the medical professional's advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,159 Posts
I would do what your vet says. He or she is aware of your area and what is needed there. If your vet is adamant about it, that should tell you what is needed. My Golden, Logan, takes Nexgard monthly and we get the Lepto vaccine. Logan is in fields and water for field training, we go to the mountains often and hike, allowing him to get in pools of water if we come upon them, etc. According to the link I’m including, it can be spread from dogs to humans and from dog to dog — they can even catch it from rodents. It’s also more prevalent in warm climates and high rainfall areas (our mountain home is in a temperate rainforest.) It’s a definite yes for us.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
My vet said I only needed to do Lepto if I am going to take my dog into the woods or go hiking with her so I decided to skip it for her first round, but will probably add next time she gets her shots when she's over a year. My vet also recommends Simparica Trio and I did ask about the risks for oral flea treatment after reading some articles and this was her response:

"The class of medications that simparica trio belongs to has been established to lower the seizure threshold in animals that have neurological disease, so I would not elect to use this med in a pet that has a history of seizures or neuro disease. However, for pets that do not fall into this category I don't hesitate to recommend and I use it in my own dog. Any medication (including OTC treatments) have potential side effects and is always a risk/benefit decision; however, in Southern California where we have a heavy and active flea problem with insects that are resistant to many traditional ingredients, and knowing that fleas carry disease like tapeworm and typhus which can cause complication beyond just itchiness, it is important to use effective year round prevention."

On my last dog I used a topical but would still sometimes see fleas on her when it was getting close to when she needed it again. So far with the oral, I haven't seen any. I also gave my last dog the Lepto vaccine without any issues, but I did stop giving it to her once she got older and couldn't go hiking anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,180 Posts
Do the Lepto if the vet recommends it. Does the breeder mean the flea and tick shot? I've seen something like that advertised at a vet. I only do flea and tick on an as needed basis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Do the Lepto if the vet recommends it. Does the breeder mean the flea and tick shot? I've seen something like that advertised at a vet. I only do flea and tick on an as needed basis.
Thank you for your reply. The breeder doesn’t want either oral or topical meds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My vet said I only needed to do Lepto if I am going to take my dog into the woods or go hiking with her so I decided to skip it for her first round, but will probably add next time she gets her shots when she's over a year. My vet also recommends Simparica Trio and I did ask about the risks for oral flea treatment after reading some articles and this was her response:

"The class of medications that simparica trio belongs to has been established to lower the seizure threshold in animals that have neurological disease, so I would not elect to use this med in a pet that has a history of seizures or neuro disease. However, for pets that do not fall into this category I don't hesitate to recommend and I use it in my own dog. Any medication (including OTC treatments) have potential side effects and is always a risk/benefit decision; however, in Southern California where we have a heavy and active flea problem with insects that are resistant to many traditional ingredients, and knowing that fleas carry disease like tapeworm and typhus which can cause complication beyond just itchiness, it is important to use effective year round prevention."

On my last dog I used a topical but would still sometimes see fleas on her when it was getting close to when she needed it again. So far with the oral, I haven't seen any. I also gave my last dog the Lepto vaccine without any issues, but I did stop giving it to her once she got older and couldn't go hiking anymore.
Thanks so much for your very thorough reply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I would do what your vet says. He or she is aware of your area and what is needed there. If your vet is adamant about it, that should tell you what is needed. My Golden, Logan, takes Nexgard monthly and we get the Lepto vaccine. Logan is in fields and water for field training, we go to the mountains often and hike, allowing him to get in pools of water if we come upon them, etc. According to the link I’m including, it can be spread from dogs to humans and from dog to dog — they can even catch it from rodents. It’s also more prevalent in warm climates and high rainfall areas (our mountain home is in a temperate rainforest.) It’s a definite yes for us.

Thank you for that information. I appreciate it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I’m in the same exact situation. Breeder says no lepto she was adamant. Spoke with two vets and both highly recommend it especially in my area. I told the vet that the breeder didn’t recommend it and he explained it’s because of the old shot had some side effects but the newer ones are drastically better. He was not dismissive of the breeders recommendations but instead took time to explain which I appreciated. We asked again at our second appointment with another vet at the practice and she gave same advice. Lepto isn’t super common but it’s bad so we decided we will do it. It wasn’t in the contract but breeder really didn’t want us to do it. I decided to go with the vets recommendations who practice in my area and have lots of experience. My breeder came from outside of the area where I live. Good luck!
Thank you for your reply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
769 Posts
I was also very wary about what I gave Archie! My CA holistic vet made sure I spaced everything out by 3-weeks at the minimum, so it wasn't a huge jolt to his system. It did mean that "paws on the ground" was postponed a bit longer, but it was worth it to us that he not have an adverse reaction and if he did, we'd know exactly what it was! We did Lepto because we have a cabin in the Sierras, so lots of standing water to come in contact with. When we moved to MA, well let's just say the ticks are on steroids (we didn't have ticks on the beaches of CA 😂) !! I give him Simparica flea/tick and actually gave him the Lyme vax and 3 weeks later the Lyme booster.

If you have trust in your vet and are a partner in your dogs care, I would suggest a good convo with her/him as to your options and consequences.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,635 Posts
If you choose not to give certain vaccines or give your dogs certain preventatives, that is certainly your prerogative but make sure you’re aware of the risks and benefits.

I work in the vet industry and I’m pretty firmly now in the camp of vaccinating unless there’s an actual reason like a dog who has an immune-mediated condition or even really bad vaccine reactions or the disease doesn’t exist where you live. I’ve seen dogs with lepto who are so sick, they had to be euthanised or required extensive care at a 24/7 facility (one dog specifically was hospitalized for a week). I’ve seen dogs with lyme who developed lyme nephritis. I know a dog who got Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, developed IMHA from it, and then was eventually euthanised despite very aggressive, very expensive treatment.

My oldest dog was very minimally vaccinated, I followed Jean Dodds vaccine protocol per his breeder’s request. He’s a hot mess healthwise and always has been. I can tell you for sure that minimal vaccines did not help him at all. His immune system is still crappy and his body is still trying to fall apart lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I was also very wary about what I gave Archie! My CA holistic vet made sure I spaced everything out by 3-weeks at the minimum, so it wasn't a huge jolt to his system. It did mean that "paws on the ground" was postponed a bit longer, but it was worth it to us that he not have an adverse reaction and if he did, we'd know exactly what it was! We did Lepto because we have a cabin in the Sierras, so lots of standing water to come in contact with. When we moved to MA, well let's just say the ticks are on steroids (we didn't have ticks on the beaches of CA 😂) !! I give him Simparica flea/tick and actually gave him the Lyme vax and 3 weeks later the Lyme booster.

If you have trust in your vet and are a partner in your dogs care, I would suggest a good convo with her/him as to your options and consequences.
Thanks for your reply. opinions on this are all over the place.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top