[Pooklook]

Hi Everyone:wave: (just recently joined and this is my 1st post so please bare with me)

Does anyone here have any experience or input on JPS (Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis surgery) after PENN Hip DI (distractive index) results?

Our new puppy, Polar Bear (now just shy of 6 months old), had his PENN Hip x-rays done at 16 weeks confirming lose hips with a pretty high DI, we opted to do the JPS surgery at 17 weeks to give him the best possible chance of preventing HD from running its course on him:crossfing. Additionally he's been on the slow growth program (we're now transitioning him to normal/full diet).

I've noticed that Polar still sits funny (butterfly/froggy style..) so I wonder if this means he just got used to it and the JPS simply takes more time to show results (since its about bone growth) or is it that the JPS just didn't quite worked for him.

Anyways, anytime I mention these terms to people at the dog park (or anyone really) no one's ever heard of it. Does anyone here have any feedback on this?

Thanks beforehand,
Pablo

 

[Kmullen]

Just wondering was there a purpose of doing penn hip on him at 16 weeks? Was he having HD symptoms?

Frog laying/sitting is very common and in no way does it suggest good or bad hips.

 

[Alaska7133]

Is he doing well after his surgery?

 

[Pooklook]

hi Alaska7133, thank you he did very well (only one week recovery -with a hobble and the cone) and he probably don't even remember any of it now

hi kfayard, my previous kid, Pooklook (over the rainbow now) had joint problems later on and it was a race to alleviate or slow down his condition while we would have loved a chance to prevent it to begin with, so we decided to screen Polar (not for any particular reasons other than ..."better safe than sorry")
Glad to hear that the froggy sitting is nothing to be concerned about, thanks!

by the way, what beautiful dogs both of you have!

 

[Pooklook]

I realize now thanks to the feedback from another concurrent related thread in this forum that many here oppose this whole approach and (if I understand correctly) think of it as not-needed or ineffective.
What I noticed is that none of the input has come from someone who has actually done this for their puppy. Am I the only one really?
What I've read so far are the opinions of people who say it is not necessary because the puppy (too young to even be screened) grew to be HD free without the need for such screening or corrective measures (which I'm happy for them btw).
But what about the puppies who have gotten screened early on (for whatever reason) and upon such warranted results undergo corrective/preventative treatments (such as JPS in my case)? I would love to hear those stories and relate/compare notes.

***Just to be clear: not at all trying to promote or suggest any of this stuff, (as you know I've gone past the should I? or shouldn't I go for it phase) just would like to hear the anecdotes from people who've done this before (...if anybody, it's beginning to fee kind of lonely now)***

 

[Kmullen]

I have stated before that I would need to see some really bad hips! X-ray plus penn hips in order to do it.

If one of my puppy buyers did this surgery without me knowing, I would be very upset!

 

[Sally's Mom]

IMO if the dog was not symptomatic, I would not even consider surgery. And I know as a vet that many of the OFA good hips we do exhibit joint laxity, but that laxity does not correlate with DJD later in life. I think many Goldens have loose hips even with passing OFA's and remain sound until they die. I have seen dogs with horrible rads have no issues and ok rads and the dogs have terrible hip pain.

 

[Pooklook]

I have stated before that I would need to see some really bad hips! X-ray plus penn hips in order to do it. If one of my puppy buyers did this surgery without me knowing, I would be very upset!

I can tell you are a dedicated and involved breeder by how passionate you are about it.
Yup, agreed, as you may have read in the other thread, Polar's x-rays + PENN-Hip score was pretty bad

My PolarBear's x-ray showed he had a very high DI on both hips (one of them almost dislocated at a .71 DI)

I hope none of your buyers have upset you by doing it without consulting you, but has any of your buyers asked you about it and brought you the Pehh hip x-rays before seeking your counsel?
In your years as a breeder, have you known anybody who's done it (for the right reasons -as you say, when really bad hips! X-ray plus penn hips)?
I would love to hear about their stories...

 

[Pooklook]

I have seen dogs with horrible rads have no issues and ok rads and the dogs have terrible hip pain.

...that's very encouraging and yet very discouraging at the same time

thanks sally's mom, as a vet have you ever had a case such as mine, or even gotten a client's dog who's had the JPS done by the time they come to you? if you have can you tell me about it (if you have but is confidential I'll understand)?

 

[Kmullen]

I can tell you are a dedicated and involved breeder by how passionate you are about it.
Yup, agreed, as you may have read in the other thread, Polar's x-rays + PENN-Hip score was pretty bad
I hope none of your buyers have upset you by doing it without consulting you, but has any of your buyers asked you about it and brought you the Pehh hip x-rays before seeking your counsel?
In your years as a breeder, have you known anybody who's done it (for the right reasons -as you say, when really bad hips! X-ray plus penn hips)?
I would love to hear about their stories...[/QUOT

My puppy buyers are aware to contact me with anything. If they were to do something like this, their contract is voided. But, never had this happen and hopefully this will never happen!

I think this procedure is pretty new. So, I do not know anyone that has done this.

 

[Kmullen]

I have known someone that the vet told the owner the puppy had elbow dysplasia and ended up doing extensive surgery on the puppy. The breeder got access to the X-rays the vet did and sent them to ofa (board certified orthopedist) and guess what?

They came back normal. So, I am very weary about what some vets push.

 

[ellsworthv]

I posted about the "possibly hip problems" and thats one of my problems with the surgery. They said when doing the X-rays they have seen dogs with horrible hips and you would think would need surgery but they are running around like nothing is wrong and then they see hips that look good and they are in horrible pain.

 

[Pooklook]

I have know someone that the vet told the owner the puppy had elbow dysplasia and ended up doing extensive surgery on the puppy. The breeder got access to the X-rays the vet did and sent them to ofa (board certified orthopedist) and guess what?

They came back normal. So, I am very weary about what some vets push.

That's horrible

Choose your vet wisely... right?:doh:

 

[Alaska7133]

Pooklook,
I have a boy that I noticed problems at 4 months. He was very lame on his right front leg after a long walk. I consulted with his breeder who convinced me nothing was wrong and he was just a puppy. Fast forward to age 4 and I had a dog who had serious problems. So I had him xrayed by my vet and sent them to a radiologist in the states (we have none in AK). The radiologist said mild hips & severe elbows. Too much damage to elbows for surgery according to the radiologist. Now had I stayed on his problem, I should have had his elbow fixed when it was a problem at age 4 months. He was young and would have recovered quicker. I should have been more diligent and regret the pain he has been through. He is on acupuncture and tramadol when necessary. Adequan injections too. I should not have listened to his breeder. I should have done the surgery then and his life would be easier. He will always limp on his right front leg. In fact when he sits, he always holds his right front leg out at an angle and doesn't put an weight on it. He is only 6.

Do what you think is right for your dog. I wish I had back when I could have. So don't second guess yourself, it's done and hopefully it will make a difference for your dog long term.

 

[Pooklook]

I posted about the "possibly hip problems" and thats one of my problems with the surgery. They said when doing the X-rays they have seen dogs with horrible hips and you would think would need surgery but they are running around like nothing is wrong and then they see hips that look good and they are in horrible pain.

Hi ellsworthv, (maybe we should have merged our threads ) considering surgery on your puppy is serious stuff (I wish no one ever had to do so), but like you say, nothing is guaranteed.

It is such a personal thing, and only with your best intentions and sincere efforts towards your puppy's well being can you listen to your heart clearly, you know?
Either you hope and pray it all turns out right, or you dig deep and do your best and everything in your might to whatever you decide to do, you do it selflessly for your kid and without regret.

Was I scared when facing this decision for my Polar? Terrified. But its the combination of having the appropriate/necessary tests-results, my drive to research and educate myself thoroughly, and my vet who's proven herself to me and my dogs time and time again, and my unwavering love for them.

Luckily this JPS surgery was very simple and he recovered in just one week.

If later on in his life he still develops the HD; well at least I know I only bothered him for one week of his early life trying my best to prevent it. And if he never develops the imminent HD; well whether due to my actions of pure luck, I'll take it.

 

[Pooklook]

Do what you think is right for your dog. I wish I had back when I could have. So don't second guess yourself, it's done and hopefully it will make a difference for your dog long term.

Thank you so much Stacey, our kids will gladly and happily live with and overcome any pains or handicaps life may throw at them, that's how much they love us and your comments and reflections are proof of how mutual our love towards them can be.

 

[Sally's Mom]

...that's very encouraging and yet very discouraging at the same time

thanks sally's mom, as a vet have you ever had a case such as mine, or even gotten a client's dog who's had the JPS done by the time they come to you? if you have can you tell me about it (if you have but is confidential I'll understand)?

I know very few people who do any kind of early intervention anymore. Most people wait and see, with the option of an FHO or total hip replacement at a later age. I am a fan of dasuquin w/msm and fish oil. All my dogs are raised on it... My second golden, one that I purchased was OFA Fair at two and mildly unilaterally dysplastic at four. She was still showing and jumping soundly in rally until she died at almost twelve. She obtained a CD CDX UD RN RA and was 2/3 of the way to a RE when she died. Never,limped a day after that diagnosis...

 

[Sally's Mom]

Elbow dysplasia is a whole other kettle of fish. I always advocate for intervention with moderate to severe elbow dysplasia. Of course, those patients see a specialist for the surgery...

 

[DianaB]

Not sure if you will get this as it is 2017. I am doing a JPS on my 4 month old Tuesday and was wondering how your surgery turned out long term.

 

[SheetsSM]

Not sure if you will get this as it is 2017. I am doing a JPS on my 4 month old Tuesday and was wondering how your surgery turned out long term.

Diana are you doing doing his surgery through an ortho specialist or general practitioner vet? Can you post your pup's X-rays? I'd be very leery cutting on your pup if you're not working with a specialist and if you haven't been in communication with your breeder