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VeeVee and Gabby
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WARNING This is a long story. May 20 - picked up our dogs from the kennel after 5 nights. May 21 - Gabby vomiting after eating breakfast. Contacted vet. Fed chicken breast and rice. She ate some. Vomiting again. May 22 - Ate chicken and rice plus a little RCGR kibble. No vomiting. May 23 - Very low energy. Ate breakfast of chicken breast, rice and a little RCGR kibble. Vomiting again. Dinner - just rice and chicken breast. Vomiting again. Contacted vet. May 24 - In to vet. Xray shows small gravel in stomach. Vet suggests endoscopy with Internal Medicine doctor at animal emergency hospital. Take Gabby to ER vet. They do ultrasound. Found "fluid filled loops" in intestines (inflammation). Decide pebbles should pass. They are small. Blood test results are fine. No endoscopy. May 25 - still at ER vet. Do another ulatrasound. Pebbles moving along and should pass. She will eat a little but not much. May 26 - still at ER vet. Some pebbles come out in poop. Trying antinausea med (cerenia) and Pepcid AC. At home she ate some chicken and rice. Minor spitting up but no vomiting. May 27 - Diarrhea - liquid, nothing solid. Won't eat. Liquidy poop Fecal sample taken to vet. Some blood in her poop. Gabby is not quite 4 years old. Keep giving Cerenia. She will sometimes eat kibble if I hand feed her. But not her normal appetite and diarrhea continures. May 28 - Fecal result shows positive for Giardia. Started Metronidazole. Then vet added Pancur. Ate and drank ok today but not as much as normal for her. May 29 - Gabby ate some food. May 30 - Eating about 1/2 her normal breakfast. Now feeding her chicken and Hill's Biome kibble. No more diarrhea. May 31 - Chicken breast and Hill's Biome kibble - ate a full breakfast. Normal poop. Still on metronidazole and panacur. June 1 - Ate breakfast of chicken breast and Hill's Biome. Ate dinner of same. June 2 - Not much eaten at breakfast. Will eat chicken breast but won't eat Biome kibble. Not much eaten at dinner. June 3 - Not eating. Low energy. No breakfast and no dinner. Will eat a few dog treats - fruitables or zukes. June 4 - Low energy. Not her normal self. Ate some breakfast June 5 - Gabby back to our regular vet. Nothing new found. Did a urinalyisis. Back to trying cerenia and vet gave her a dose on Entyce - appetite stimulant. She ate dinner of chicken breast and I baked a little sirloin steak for her. Maybe 1/8 cup of chicken and 1/8 cup of steak eaten plus a 1/4 cup of RCGR kibble. Far less than normal for her. She weighs about 60 pounds. June 6 - Urinalysis results - everything looks good - shows good kidney and liver function. Poop a little soft this morning but not diarrhea. Ate all her breakfast - RCGR kibble, plus a little chicken breast and a little steak. Still on cerenia. Ate all her dinner - RCGR kibble, a little chicken breast and a little steak. June 7 - Not eating any food - just treats at breakfast. Seems to have her energy back but not much appetite. Gave her Entyce at 4:30 pm. At 6 pm she ate all her dinner - RCGR, chicken breast and steak. June 8 - Ate her breakfast - RCGR, a little chicken and a little steak. Cerenia at noon and Entyce at 4:30 pm. Ate all her dinner. Bedtime - 9 PM. Gabby very restless. Won't settle in her crate in our bedroom. Took her outside 3 or 4 times. Not going pee or poop. Not drinking water. Just restless. Finally, a little before midnight I decide to take her for a walk since we aren't sleeping anyway. Took a 40 minute walk and she did a big soft poop. She also peed. Back in her crate. Calm for about 2 hours then restless again. Read the Entyce brochure and don't see anything about this med causing restlessness and pacing. Out to the kennel a few more times before we decide to leave her out in the kennel at about 4 am. Took her for a 90 minute walk at 6 am. She pooped a small, soft poop. Will not eat any breakfast at all. Vet wants to do a "fasting" blood test tomorrow (June 10). And here we are. Nothing figured out. No more giardia. She still doesn't want to eat dog food but will eat treats. No vomiting. I called UC Davis last week and they said they couldn't take her because they can't do any surgery as ICU is closed. All this Covid stuff - understaffed and over worked. Anybody ever have a dog with this kind of problem? Any ideas? Maybe back to internal medicine vet at ER place? I am at my wits' end. Do dogs ever just have a change of appetite? Vet thinks it could be Irritable Bowel Syndrome or Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth which she can determine with the "fasting" blood test tomorrow. If UC Davis was open I'd take her there in a minute. They did wonderful things for our other Golden, VeeVee.
 

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I'm sorry to hear about what Gabby is going through.

When will you get the blood test results?
 

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VeeVee and Gabby
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Since the vet is drawing the blood tomorrow and sending it to the lab, I presume the results will come in on Friday morning.

Thank you.
 

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VeeVee and Gabby
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
But, to clarify, the regular blood test that was done on May 24th, showed nothing out of the ordinary.
 

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No... goldens really don't ever just stop being hungry unless something is wrong.

Her symptoms seem like they are pain symptoms to me. The intermittent pain and restlessness (which is usually a symptom of pain) are reminiscent of human symptoms of gall or kidney stones. I had never heard of a dog having gall bladder issues, but google tells me it's possible. Are her teeth all ok? Any pain in her back? My dog had back issues and had very general, hard-to-pin down symptoms .

Poor baby has been through a lot. When she's allowed to eat again, I would switch her back to defatted, ground up chicken breast (I use a food processor) and very soft rice for all meals. No treats, no kibble, no steak at least for 72 hours, just to get some calories into her that won't exacerbate her stomach issues.

It seems like your vet might consider giving her IV fluids, because she is probably dehydrated at this point. Maybe even before that you could give her a some low-fat, low-sodium chicken broth just to get her hydrated.

When you say she had pebbles in her stomach, do you mean literal pebbles, like she was eating rocks? Or related to the giardia? I wonder if there is an anti-inflammatory that wouldn't also exacerbate her GI symptoms... maybe fish oil?

I can't shake the feeling that the restlessness is a result of pain. To me, the question is whether the pain is related to the GI issues, or caused by something else. This must be so stressful for you! I hope you are able to find a solution.
 

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I'm sorry you're going through this. It must be so worrying!

What did the boarding kennel say? Did they notice anything while she was there?
 

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Hi, I have no advice but I just wanted to say I’m thinking of you and I really hope you get to the bottom of it soon. Sounds like a very stressful and worrying time but it sounds like she’s in good hands! Hope you get some answers soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No... goldens really don't ever just stop being hungry unless something is wrong.

Her symptoms seem like they are pain symptoms to me. The intermittent pain and restlessness (which is usually a symptom of pain) are reminiscent of human symptoms of gall or kidney stones. I had never heard of a dog having gall bladder issues, but google tells me it's possible. Are her teeth all ok? Any pain in her back? My dog had back issues and had very general, hard-to-pin down symptoms .

Poor baby has been through a lot. When she's allowed to eat again, I would switch her back to defatted, ground up chicken breast (I use a food processor) and very soft rice for all meals. No treats, no kibble, no steak at least for 72 hours, just to get some calories into her that won't exacerbate her stomach issues.

It seems like your vet might consider giving her IV fluids, because she is probably dehydrated at this point. Maybe even before that you could give her a some low-fat, low-sodium chicken broth just to get her hydrated.

When you say she had pebbles in her stomach, do you mean literal pebbles, like she was eating rocks? Or related to the giardia? I wonder if there is an anti-inflammatory that wouldn't also exacerbate her GI symptoms... maybe fish oil?

I can't shake the feeling that the restlessness is a result of pain. To me, the question is whether the pain is related to the GI issues, or caused by something else. This must be so stressful for you! I hope you are able to find a solution.
Yes, our Goldens rarely turn down food.

Yes, they were literally small rocks - like pea gravel - and she had eaten them. And they came out the other end about 3 days later. I think she got them at the kennel but they say they didn't see her eat any gravel while she was there.

And now that the giardia is gone from her system, she isn't lethargic at all. She's very energetic.

Our vet checked her teeth, her mouth, her temperature - no fever, she let the vet palpate her abdomen, the vet isn't finding any painful area on her body.

I am thinking that Entyce may have caused her to be "hyped" last night although that is not listed as a side effect on the packaging.

Right now, she will eat chicken breast, but the minute I even put a piece of the Royal Canin Gldn Rtvr kibble near her, she sniffs it and she turns and walks away. She's been eating that food for at least one and a half years. Our other girl, VeeVee, also eats that kibble and she has no problem with it so I don't think the food is bad. It's a relatively new bag.

Thank you for your suggestions. We'll try pure chicken breast that is skinless and baked in the oven. She was spitting out the plain boiled white rice last week so I think we should probably just do chicken for a few days since she will eat that. And no more Entyce, even though it did help with her appetite for a few days.

It's distressing when they won't eat because they are such "foodies" normally.

Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi, I have no advice but I just wanted to say I’m thinking of you and I really hope you get to the bottom of it soon. Sounds like a very stressful and worrying time but it sounds like she’s in good hands! Hope you get some answers soon.
Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm sorry you're going through this. It must be so worrying!

What did the boarding kennel say? Did they notice anything while she was there?
The kennel said she was fine while she was there. No vomiting and no diarrhea. But I do believe that is where she picked up the giardia. They said none of the dogs were sick, but from what I've read, there are asymptomatic dogs who shed giardia so how could anyone know for sure? And they said that they do have some dogs that stay there that eat the gravel, but nobody has noticed that behavior with Gabby.

It is very upsetting and I thank you for your concern and questions.
 

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I don't have any big picture ideas, but food aversion is a very real thing in animals. Just as we avoid foods that we have eaten when we are unwell, they can develop an aversion to certain foods that they used to eat regularly if they associate the aroma or taste with feeling sick. This is why we do not start prescription diets while animals are hospitalized, we wait until they have been discharged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I don't have any big picture ideas, but food aversion is a very real thing in animals. Just as we avoid foods that we have eaten when we are unwell, they can develop an aversion to certain foods that they used to eat regularly if they associate the aroma or taste with feeling sick. This is why we do not start prescription diets while animals are hospitalized, we wait until they have been discharged.
I hadn't heard about this before concerning dogs. Thank you.
 

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Oh yeah, I didn't really think of it, it is true that dogs (any organism) can develop an aversion to a food that they associate with something bad happening (like a stomach ache or a scary sound). If it's specific to foods that she had around the time she was sick, it would be worth a shot to give her something totally novel. My vet had a canned, very mild food for upset stomachs -- maybe your vet has something similar. The only dog food that one of my goldens ever turned a nose up to was a weight management food by IAMs, and I ran screaming to the vet -- and it turned out to be specific to the food. Other breeds in our household have totally rejected many types of Royal Canin, for what it's worth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Oh yeah, I didn't really think of it, it is true that dogs (any organism) can develop an aversion to a food that they associate with something bad happening (like a stomach ache or a scary sound). If it's specific to foods that she had around the time she was sick, it would be worth a shot to give her something totally novel. My vet had a canned, very mild food for upset stomachs -- maybe your vet has something similar. The only dog food that one of my goldens ever turned a nose up to was a weight management food by IAMs, and I ran screaming to the vet -- and it turned out to be specific to the food. Other breeds in our household have totally rejected many types of Royal Canin, for what it's worth.
Thank you. We are going to try this tonight. Hope she eats.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
She ate all her dinner last night and her breakfast this morning. Keeping our fingers crossed that the "fasting" blood test comes back showing everything is fine. The vet wants to be sure she doesn't have IBD (irritable bowel disease) or SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth). Hope she doesn't have either of these and that she simply has food aversion to RCGR kibble due to her vomiting it up a few weeks ago. Thanks to all of you who have responded!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The blood test was for cobalamine (vitamin B12) and folate. The results show she was a little low on B12 and a little high on folate. Our regular vet is suggesting B12 shots (weekly for 6 weeks and then once a month for the future) and a special diet - Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein kibble. The Internal Medicine vet and our regular vet think another ultra sound should be done to see if the "fluid filled loops" still show up in her intestinal tract. Our vet said that "fluid filled loops" indicate a "thickening of the intestinal wall which could be due to food allergies". If they are still present, they are suggesting an endoscopy and biopsies. It would help determine if she has IBD or SIBO. She hasn't had any vomiting or diarrhea for the past week. For the past two days, Gabby has been eating normally and seems like she has her normal energy level back. However, if we try to give her a piece of Royal Canin Golden Retriever kibble, she spits it out. It seems to me that she has developed a food aversion to RCGR due to the vomiting episodes that started this entire chain of events. Anybody have any experience with B12 or IBD or SIBO or ? Thank you!
 

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Geez, this was all precipitated by a visit to a kennel and infection. It seems to me like the vets are doing a lot of guessing. If she seems to be feeling better and eating OK, I don't see the harm in giving her the Royal Canin hydrolyzed protein -- though none of the dogs I've fed that food to like it and I don't think it's very palatable -- but if the bloodwork seems fine, the infection has cleared up, she's eating OK, maybe this has nothing to do with allergies. I'd be inclined to let them give her the injections and let her keep eating what she's eating now (unless it's just chicken, which isn't balanced long-term). Unless the symptoms return, I don't think I'd put her through anything invasive, like anesthesia for imaging (don't know if that's what they have in mind) or an endoscopy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I've been thinking about this and have talked to a couple of friends who also have Goldens. They both say what you have said - Try the B12 injections and continue with a kibble other than RCGR and see how it goes. My husband and I agree with them and you. No harm in the B12 since it's water soluble and has no side effects. She's been eating Hill's Prescription w/d kibble and likes it so far - along with a little baked chicken breast. And everyone seems to agree - nothing invasive unless the vomiting and diarrhea start up again - just like you said. So, we have a plan for the near future and will likely have her cobalamine and folate test run again in maybe one month to see if there are any changes - unless the problems start in again. Keeping our fingers crossed!! Thank you for your input. Greatly appreciated!!
 
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