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Google "black golden retriever"....it's a total wormhole of misinformation peppered with truth.
 

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One word comes to mind when I hear of RARE Goldens. Be it white, English cream, small or now Black Goldens. Oxymoron. A Golden is just as the name implies, Golden or a reddish golden. A black golden is something else, Not a golden. Maybe a Flat Coated retriever.
 

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At the risk of stirring things up, is this even a genetic possibility at this-point-in-the-game? I found this dog on a local (to San Diego) breeder's website, advertised as a "rare black golden" which they are planning on breeding. I was just doing some research on "how to research a breeder's website", and ran across this.

I'm going to refrain from posting the breeder's name/website. In part, out of a desire not to "out" this breeder to the general public. Also, in part, because the dogs I was able to find on OFA didn't have the greatest of clearances.

For what it's worth, I also found some claims on their website that I found a bit hard to believe (either that, or I've found the Holy Grail of goldens)...

"...pups come from a genetically cancer-free lineage with great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and other relatives living up to 16 years old and beyond."
"...more than 150 puppies coming from <redacted> line, we are proud to have had NO long term illnesses or serious health issues from any of her litters!"

Thoughts?

Add Note: I'm not a "dog person", but my first though on seeing this picture was "small Newfoundland". Or, at least "some Newfoundland".

View attachment 886086
 

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At the risk of stirring things up, is this even a genetic possibility at this-point-in-the-game? I found this dog on a local (to San Diego) breeder's website, advertised as a "rare black golden" which they are planning on breeding. I was just doing some research on "how to research a breeder's website", and ran across this.

I'm going to refrain from posting the breeder's name/website. In part, out of a desire not to "out" this breeder to the general public. Also, in part, because the dogs I was able to find on OFA didn't have the greatest of clearances.

For what it's worth, I also found some claims on their website that I found a bit hard to believe (either that, or I've found the Holy Grail of goldens)...

"...pups come from a genetically cancer-free lineage with great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and other relatives living up to 16 years old and beyond."
"...more than 150 puppies coming from <redacted> line, we are proud to have had NO long term illnesses or serious health issues from any of her litters!"

Thoughts?

Add Note: I'm not a "dog person", but my first though on seeing this picture was "small Newfoundland". Or, at least "some Newfoundland".

View attachment 886086
This dog looks like a flat coated retriever - very similar personality and very sweet.
 

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I'm going to refrain from posting the breeder's name/website. In part, out of a desire not to "out" this breeder to the general public.
This is a very interesting way to setup this post. I researched for a year before landing on our current breeder. She has a TON of Facebook videos and posts of her working with her litters every single day to show the best way to raise them up to be wonderful puppies and companions. So far, a year and a half in, our puppy is amazing. Zero fear, extreme joy and confidence and gorgeous.

That is how a typical breeder should go about their business, constantly promoting online and showing what goes on "behind the scenes" in the 8 weeks of breeding. So when you say you don't want to "out" this breeder to the general public, it feels like deep down you know they are full of it and people from this group with strong opinions on why they are full of it would most likely reach out to tell them why they are full of it.

We are a guardian family for our incredible breeder, and I have very strong feelings about unethical breeders and would take EVERY instance to "out" them if they were making false claims and leading people astray. If it is legit they would WANT the press, how better to sell puppies? And if they aren't legit then they SHOULD have the press so people aren't taken by their lies. Either way it is your duty from the start to "out" them, come what may.
 

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At the risk of stirring things up, is this even a genetic possibility at this-point-in-the-game? I found this dog on a local (to San Diego) breeder's website, advertised as a "rare black golden" which they are planning on breeding. I was just doing some research on "how to research a breeder's website", and ran across this.

I'm going to refrain from posting the breeder's name/website. In part, out of a desire not to "out" this breeder to the general public. Also, in part, because the dogs I was able to find on OFA didn't have the greatest of clearances.

For what it's worth, I also found some claims on their website that I found a bit hard to believe (either that, or I've found the Holy Grail of goldens)...

"...pups come from a genetically cancer-free lineage with great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and other relatives living up to 16 years old and beyond."
"...more than 150 puppies coming from <redacted> line, we are proud to have had NO long term illnesses or serious health issues from any of her litters!"

Thoughts?

Add Note: I'm not a "dog person", but my first though on seeing this picture was "small Newfoundland". Or, at least "some Newfoundland".

View attachment 886086
This dog could also be a flat coated retriever.
 

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This is a very interesting way to setup this post. I researched for a year before landing on our current breeder. She has a TON of Facebook videos and posts of her working with her litters every single day to show the best way to raise them up to be wonderful puppies and companions. So far, a year and a half in, our puppy is amazing. Zero fear, extreme joy and confidence and gorgeous.

That is how a typical breeder should go about their business, constantly promoting online and showing what goes on "behind the scenes" in the 8 weeks of breeding.
Social media presence or even an up-to-date websites does not an ethical breeder make. I got both my girls from an ethical breeder and while she has an UTD website, she doesn't have a business page for her kennel nor does she promote them on Instagram or TikTok. Any litter/puppy posts have a curated audience. Which to me makes sense. By and large, reputable breeders see breeding as a byproduct of their hobbies... not a business. So why would they have business pages and promote their breeding as a business online when it's not a business and when their puppies are spoken for without needing do all that?
 

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This dog could also be a flat coated retriever.
If so, it wouldn't be a very good quality one- however, that wouldn't surprise me, as this breeder does not appear to have very good quality dogs.
 

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At the risk of stirring things up, is this even a genetic possibility at this-point-in-the-game? I found this dog on a local (to San Diego) breeder's website, advertised as a "rare black golden" which they are planning on breeding. I was just doing some research on "how to research a breeder's website", and ran across this.

I'm going to refrain from posting the breeder's name/website. In part, out of a desire not to "out" this breeder to the general public. Also, in part, because the dogs I was able to find on OFA didn't have the greatest of clearances.

For what it's worth, I also found some claims on their website that I found a bit hard to believe (either that, or I've found the Holy Grail of goldens)...

"...pups come from a genetically cancer-free lineage with great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and other relatives living up to 16 years old and beyond."
"...more than 150 puppies coming from <redacted> line, we are proud to have had NO long term illnesses or serious health issues from any of her litters!"

Thoughts?

Add Note: I'm not a "dog person", but my first though on seeing this picture was "small Newfoundland". Or, at least "some Newfoundland".

View attachment 886086
I'm on my second golden right now - she is 1 year old - previous girl lived to 15 years old. I very seriously considered a Flat Coated Retriever but the availability is very slim in my area compared to the Golden Retriever. Evidently that have similar characteristics - aside from the color. I've only seen a couple of the Flat Coated Retriever in my travels and they have that same majestic pose about them as the Goldens.

Here is more info
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is a very interesting way to setup this post.
Thank you. I did spend a few minutes determining how I wanted to frame this post.

So when you say you don't want to "out" this breeder to the general public, it feels like deep down you know they are full of it and people from this group with strong opinions on why they are full of it would most likely reach out to tell them why they are full of it.
It's not "deep down". I'm still a bit of a "golden newb", but things like "black goldens", "genetically cancer-free lineage", and 150 puppies with zero long-term health issues set off my nonsense meter. It is, however, helpful to get some of the background (like the "ee" site that makes a "black golden" a genetic "impossibility" vice "improbability") from those-who-know.

We are a guardian family for our incredible breeder, and I have very strong feelings about unethical breeders and would take EVERY instance to "out" them if they were making false claims and leading people astray. If it is legit they would WANT the press, how better to sell puppies? And if they aren't legit then they SHOULD have the press so people aren't taken by their lies. Either way it is your duty from the start to "out" them, come what may.
I don't feel a need to "out" anyone. As a consumer (read "pet owner"), I believe all consumers have a responsibility to self-educate. If, as I self-educate, I can share with others and help their efforts, that's great. But, there's zero need to run anyone into the ground to obtain/share information about the possibility of a "black golden", or "genetically cancer-free lineage", and what can be inferred about a breeder making these type of claims..

I'll even go as far as to opine that outing someone, and having people read them the GRCA-riot-act on this forum, is likely counterproductive to any effort to help non-hobbyists learn about the breed. It comes across as infighting-between-breeders, and that automatically makes most of us non-hobbyists feel like "that's not my concern". And? We'd be right. The information being discussed may be our concern, but the castigation of a less-than-stellar breeder? Nope.

I'll crawl even further out on that limb (hearing creaking and cracking noises behind me 🤣). Even when the non-hobbyist asks "what about this breeder?", I find it much more informative when the response educates about the standards and rationale (including health consequences) than devolves into "greeders" and "mutts". Just my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation 😁).
 

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What makes black desirable for them?
They’re just seen as something different by the Puppy Raisers. Service dog organizations don’t breed for color or coat texture so there’s a definite randomness and infrequency to their occurrence.
 

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At the risk of stirring things up, is this even a genetic possibility at this-point-in-the-game? I found this dog on a local (to San Diego) breeder's website, advertised as a "rare black golden" which they are planning on breeding. I was just doing some research on "how to research a breeder's website", and ran across this.

I'm going to refrain from posting the breeder's name/website. In part, out of a desire not to "out" this breeder to the general public. Also, in part, because the dogs I was able to find on OFA didn't have the greatest of clearances.

For what it's worth, I also found some claims on their website that I found a bit hard to believe (either that, or I've found the Holy Grail of goldens)...

"...pups come from a genetically cancer-free lineage with great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and other relatives living up to 16 years old and beyond."
"...more than 150 puppies coming from <redacted> line, we are proud to have had NO long term illnesses or serious health issues from any of her litters!"

Thoughts?

Add Note: I'm not a "dog person", but my first though on seeing this picture was "small Newfoundland". Or, at least "some Newfoundland".

View attachment 886086
Flat Coated Retriever?
 

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At the risk of stirring things up, is this even a genetic possibility at this-point-in-the-game? I found this dog on a local (to San Diego) breeder's website, advertised as a "rare black golden" which they are planning on breeding. I was just doing some research on "how to research a breeder's website", and ran across this.

I'm going to refrain from posting the breeder's name/website. In part, out of a desire not to "out" this breeder to the general public. Also, in part, because the dogs I was able to find on OFA didn't have the greatest of clearances.

For what it's worth, I also found some claims on their website that I found a bit hard to believe (either that, or I've found the Holy Grail of goldens)...

"...pups come from a genetically cancer-free lineage with great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and other relatives living up to 16 years old and beyond."
"...more than 150 puppies coming from <redacted> line, we are proud to have had NO long term illnesses or serious health issues from any of her litters!"

Thoughts?

Add Note: I'm not a "dog person", but my first though on seeing this picture was "small Newfoundland". Or, at least "some Newfoundland".

View attachment 886086
Looks just like a female Newfy that I once had.
 

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At the risk of stirring things up, is this even a genetic possibility at this-point-in-the-game? I found this dog on a local (to San Diego) breeder's website, advertised as a "rare black golden" which they are planning on breeding. I was just doing some research on "how to research a breeder's website", and ran across this.

I'm going to refrain from posting the breeder's name/website. In part, out of a desire not to "out" this breeder to the general public. Also, in part, because the dogs I was able to find on OFA didn't have the greatest of clearances.

For what it's worth, I also found some claims on their website that I found a bit hard to believe (either that, or I've found the Holy Grail of goldens)...

"...pups come from a genetically cancer-free lineage with great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and other relatives living up to 16 years old and beyond."
"...more than 150 puppies coming from <redacted> line, we are proud to have had NO long term illnesses or serious health issues from any of her litters!"

Thoughts?

Add Note: I'm not a "dog person", but my first though on seeing this picture was "small Newfoundland". Or, at least "some Newfoundland".

View attachment 886086
looks like it could be a flat coated retriever. Similar to goldens in size, temperament, and coat texture. But ain’t no such thing as a black golden retriever.
 

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looks like it could be a flat coated retriever. Similar to goldens in size, temperament, and coat texture. But ain’t no such thing as a black golden retriever.
It's not a Flat Coated Retriever. The skull and muzzle structure is wrong.
 
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