Gosh I don't know what to say except he is really really handsome. Have you tried a home cooked boiled chicken and white rice?? I have added apple pectin when the stools were loose. I am not an expert on this but it kinda sounds like food allergy. I wish I could help.
Incessant Diarrhea (6 months old now)
3164
8
Here's the situation:
Here's sort of a schedule of whats been done. All regular shots and dewormers are given on schedule to the day. Diarrhea is generally all day and he cannot hold it at night, and will mess in the house. When no diarrhea, he has not pooped in the house. No pee in the house, to date.
Moose is 100% supervised, he is not eating anything outside and he is not getting ANY food scraps or treats of any kind. Fed twice daily, no snacking.
Early May: Moose comes home (12 weeks old), no food change (purina pro plan sensitive skin &stomach)
Late May/ End of may: Moose develops watery/mucousy green diarrhea. Vet is called immediately. Fecal test done showing over growth of clostridium. He is given amoxicillin twice daily. Diarrhea clears up within 24 hours, and remains clear for the 7 days he is on the amoxicillin. 5-7 days after treatment is stopped, diarrhea returns but is now far less green and more dark brown.
**through the next 3 months, fecal tests are done almost weekly, showing nothing but a lot of dead bacteria, and live bacteria, nothing specific that would be causing any problems, dewormers also given occasionally**
By this time it is middle June we try 14 days of amoxicillin (vet says maybe it wasn't taken for long enough, but wants to stick with the antibiotic because it was previously effective). Same story, but 4 days after treatment is stopped, diarrhea returns, but not as bad (dark brown, no green no mucous). This time probiotics (refrigerated) were given in between each dose of antibiotic.
July: Probiotic use continues, we try 1 week of Metronidazole (Flagyl). This works only slightly -- stool is still soft and poorly formed, but it is not a cow patty. After this, food is slowly changed to Purina Prescription Diet EN. This makes things worse and out of frustration, I feed him homemade deboned salmon and pumpkin. Stool is semi-normal after this meal. Perhaps this is a food allergy? Feed him the rest of the salmon and pumpkin while slowly adding in Taste of the Wild puppy ocean formula. Responding OK to dog food, but still not great. He is still having bouts of diarrhea inside overnight (still dark brown and pudding-like). After full bag, we try Natural Balance LID Sweet Potato & Salmon. Some improvement, but not relieving overnight messes. Best response to food so far. No food change since.
August: Diarrhea has returned in full force (dark brown and pudding-like). Vet suggests tylan powder (2x daily 1/8 tsp, for one month). Moose eats this medicine with some pumpkin. Meal is given with probiotic and crushed digestive enzyme tablet. Diarrhea clears up after first dose and meal (immediately). One week later digestive enzyme and probiotic are replaced with Dogzymes powder sprinkled on food (Both digestive enzyme and probiotic). Stool consistency improves even more. Tylan powder use continues.*
**this "digestive enzyme" is plant based (I think), not from the ground pancreas of another animal**
First week of September: Moose is weaned off Tylan powder. First three days he is given tylan once a day, then every other day for four days. Then Tylan is stopped (9/6)
One week later (9/12-9/13): Stool becomes soft in the afternoons, normal in the morning. No inside mess. 9/13- evening poop is VERY soft, starting to pile but still semi-formed. This is basically the progression of stool that I've seen before with him when the diarrhea starts. To prevent diarrhea overnight, I gave one dose (1/8 tsp.) of Tylan powder. Message has been left for Vet who I will hopefully hear from by tomorrow morning.
The first month was basically meat and rice only for about two weeks, and intermittently thereafter after particularly bad days. Stopped because it didn't really help, rice came out completely undigested.
We are fairly sure that nothing is lodged. It would have presented alternative issues after this long, according to the vet.
Energy level 100% generally every day since i've had him (other than sleepy-puppy days during which he grows like a weed).
Weight --
Early May - 16 lbs.
Late July - 36lbs
End of August - 50lbs
9/13 - 52.5lbs
HELP!
Tiffany
Here's sort of a schedule of whats been done. All regular shots and dewormers are given on schedule to the day. Diarrhea is generally all day and he cannot hold it at night, and will mess in the house. When no diarrhea, he has not pooped in the house. No pee in the house, to date.
Moose is 100% supervised, he is not eating anything outside and he is not getting ANY food scraps or treats of any kind. Fed twice daily, no snacking.
Early May: Moose comes home (12 weeks old), no food change (purina pro plan sensitive skin &stomach)
Late May/ End of may: Moose develops watery/mucousy green diarrhea. Vet is called immediately. Fecal test done showing over growth of clostridium. He is given amoxicillin twice daily. Diarrhea clears up within 24 hours, and remains clear for the 7 days he is on the amoxicillin. 5-7 days after treatment is stopped, diarrhea returns but is now far less green and more dark brown.
**through the next 3 months, fecal tests are done almost weekly, showing nothing but a lot of dead bacteria, and live bacteria, nothing specific that would be causing any problems, dewormers also given occasionally**
By this time it is middle June we try 14 days of amoxicillin (vet says maybe it wasn't taken for long enough, but wants to stick with the antibiotic because it was previously effective). Same story, but 4 days after treatment is stopped, diarrhea returns, but not as bad (dark brown, no green no mucous). This time probiotics (refrigerated) were given in between each dose of antibiotic.
July: Probiotic use continues, we try 1 week of Metronidazole (Flagyl). This works only slightly -- stool is still soft and poorly formed, but it is not a cow patty. After this, food is slowly changed to Purina Prescription Diet EN. This makes things worse and out of frustration, I feed him homemade deboned salmon and pumpkin. Stool is semi-normal after this meal. Perhaps this is a food allergy? Feed him the rest of the salmon and pumpkin while slowly adding in Taste of the Wild puppy ocean formula. Responding OK to dog food, but still not great. He is still having bouts of diarrhea inside overnight (still dark brown and pudding-like). After full bag, we try Natural Balance LID Sweet Potato & Salmon. Some improvement, but not relieving overnight messes. Best response to food so far. No food change since.
August: Diarrhea has returned in full force (dark brown and pudding-like). Vet suggests tylan powder (2x daily 1/8 tsp, for one month). Moose eats this medicine with some pumpkin. Meal is given with probiotic and crushed digestive enzyme tablet. Diarrhea clears up after first dose and meal (immediately). One week later digestive enzyme and probiotic are replaced with Dogzymes powder sprinkled on food (Both digestive enzyme and probiotic). Stool consistency improves even more. Tylan powder use continues.*
**this "digestive enzyme" is plant based (I think), not from the ground pancreas of another animal**
First week of September: Moose is weaned off Tylan powder. First three days he is given tylan once a day, then every other day for four days. Then Tylan is stopped (9/6)
One week later (9/12-9/13): Stool becomes soft in the afternoons, normal in the morning. No inside mess. 9/13- evening poop is VERY soft, starting to pile but still semi-formed. This is basically the progression of stool that I've seen before with him when the diarrhea starts. To prevent diarrhea overnight, I gave one dose (1/8 tsp.) of Tylan powder. Message has been left for Vet who I will hopefully hear from by tomorrow morning.
The first month was basically meat and rice only for about two weeks, and intermittently thereafter after particularly bad days. Stopped because it didn't really help, rice came out completely undigested.
We are fairly sure that nothing is lodged. It would have presented alternative issues after this long, according to the vet.
Energy level 100% generally every day since i've had him (other than sleepy-puppy days during which he grows like a weed).
Weight --
Early May - 16 lbs.
Late July - 36lbs
End of August - 50lbs
9/13 - 52.5lbs
HELP!
TiffanyAttachments
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
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I would assume the fecal tests have been checking for coccidia and giardia? Our pup has both, and diarrhea is a symptom of either. But obviously you've had a lot of tests so I doubt those options have been overlooked. Just thought I'd throw it out there just in case.
And have food allergies been addressed? My vet said beef is a pretty high allergen, so if he has that in his diet maybe something like that? You said he was down to meat and rice, but I didn't know which kind of meat. But it sounds like you've tried diet restrictions, so again, something likely already tried and excluded as a potential problem.
I hope you can figure something out. That just doesn't sound good for anyone involved. I wish I had more experience to offer!
And have food allergies been addressed? My vet said beef is a pretty high allergen, so if he has that in his diet maybe something like that? You said he was down to meat and rice, but I didn't know which kind of meat. But it sounds like you've tried diet restrictions, so again, something likely already tried and excluded as a potential problem.
I hope you can figure something out. That just doesn't sound good for anyone involved. I wish I had more experience to offer!
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18,663 Posts
I had a foster dog awhile back that came to rescue with several medical problems, he had generalized demodex mange and had to be treated every day for three months with oral ivermectin. The other problem he had was diarrhea similar to what you described, of course the ivermectin aggravated the dh. We did the whole circus of tests and medication, the tests showed an "over growth of bacteria" in his intestines was the main cause though.
He was finally put on Tylan powder too, and it helped right away, however he had to stay on it for 3 months before his stool was normal and stayed normal. I would ask your vet for a longer course of Tylan, it worked for my foster dog.
He was finally put on Tylan powder too, and it helped right away, however he had to stay on it for 3 months before his stool was normal and stayed normal. I would ask your vet for a longer course of Tylan, it worked for my foster dog.
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600 Posts
Ripley had problems with diarrhea for a long time and we spent a lot of money on tests with no conclusive answers. He had coccidia and we thought that after the treatment it would go away, but it didn't. Metronidazole helped temporarily. Probiotics were also helpful, but his stools were still soft. Our vet suggested that he had food allergies so we put him on pinnacle duck and it def helped, but his stools still weren't as solid as we were wanting after a few months on it. We ended up switching him to the salmon and haven't had any problems since. It might be worth trying to switch him to a different food and seeing how it goes. Maybe do an allergy blood test? Good luck!
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14,257 Posts
Shala's liquid diarrhea was never diagnosed as anything - tests and cultures kept coming back negative. But we are quite sure it was Giardia. She had it from when she came home (8 weeks) for three weeks.
Also assuming Moose has been tested for Giardia, coccidia, etc. - was he cultured? It might be worth trying a course of Fenbendazole. That's the med for Giardia. Giardia is notorious for not showing up positive on the test. They have to be shedding the parasite at the right time to catch it on the test. It is entirely possible that amoxicillan is not the right antibiotic for whatever he has. Unless it is a bacterial infection, amoxicillan won't do anything. But it will kill off good bacteria in the system - but I know you have been giving a probiotic, so that should help.
Also - Shala was on Metronidazole for three weeks. I wonder if Moose needs longer courses. These bugs can calm and then flare up (Giardia especially). Also, if they start to shed the parasite, they can reinfect themselves. My vet recommended I clean Shala's bum daily (it's not as bad as it sounds - use a baby wipe). I only had to do that the week she was on fenbendazole.
She was also on the EN food for 6 weeks, and then I sloooowly transitioned her. Moose has switched foods many times for such a short period - that could be keeping his system from settling. There was another bland/easy on the system food my vet mentioned as an alternative if the EN didn't help. I can't remember what it was (EN did work for Shala, in conjunction with Metronidazole) but maybe it is something that would work for Moose. I think it was a Royal Canin prescription food for gastro issues. I also had to feed small meals, four times a day. Eventually, I made sure to switch Shala to a food that had the same protein source as EN (chicken) and was not too rich.
I only started the probiotics with Shala after we finished the metro. And she is actually still getting the FortiFlora. She had a little flare up of diarrhea last week (so at 17 weeks old, after it being good since 11 weeks). I put her back on metro for 5 days, stopped the probiotic during those days, and things got better. She is now back on the probitoic.
Also - I found many training treats made things worse (especially dried liver). I finally found one I can give her - but she gets no cookies, or anything else.
I hope some of this helps. I know it is really hard. I would definitely get a culture on his poop - and maybe even retest for Giardia and coccidia (it is best to bring in samples from 3 different poops). I'm sorry if I am saying stuff you already know - I'm just trying to mention eveything my vets told me during Shala's diarrhea. Hang in there..
Also assuming Moose has been tested for Giardia, coccidia, etc. - was he cultured? It might be worth trying a course of Fenbendazole. That's the med for Giardia. Giardia is notorious for not showing up positive on the test. They have to be shedding the parasite at the right time to catch it on the test. It is entirely possible that amoxicillan is not the right antibiotic for whatever he has. Unless it is a bacterial infection, amoxicillan won't do anything. But it will kill off good bacteria in the system - but I know you have been giving a probiotic, so that should help.
Also - Shala was on Metronidazole for three weeks. I wonder if Moose needs longer courses. These bugs can calm and then flare up (Giardia especially). Also, if they start to shed the parasite, they can reinfect themselves. My vet recommended I clean Shala's bum daily (it's not as bad as it sounds - use a baby wipe). I only had to do that the week she was on fenbendazole.
She was also on the EN food for 6 weeks, and then I sloooowly transitioned her. Moose has switched foods many times for such a short period - that could be keeping his system from settling. There was another bland/easy on the system food my vet mentioned as an alternative if the EN didn't help. I can't remember what it was (EN did work for Shala, in conjunction with Metronidazole) but maybe it is something that would work for Moose. I think it was a Royal Canin prescription food for gastro issues. I also had to feed small meals, four times a day. Eventually, I made sure to switch Shala to a food that had the same protein source as EN (chicken) and was not too rich.
I only started the probiotics with Shala after we finished the metro. And she is actually still getting the FortiFlora. She had a little flare up of diarrhea last week (so at 17 weeks old, after it being good since 11 weeks). I put her back on metro for 5 days, stopped the probiotic during those days, and things got better. She is now back on the probitoic.
Also - I found many training treats made things worse (especially dried liver). I finally found one I can give her - but she gets no cookies, or anything else.
I hope some of this helps. I know it is really hard. I would definitely get a culture on his poop - and maybe even retest for Giardia and coccidia (it is best to bring in samples from 3 different poops). I'm sorry if I am saying stuff you already know - I'm just trying to mention eveything my vets told me during Shala's diarrhea. Hang in there..
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Thank you for the advice!
@Sweet Girl: My first golden's name was Shalla! She passed about three years ago. She was AMAZING. Could not have asked for a better dog. I'm sure the name will bring you some good mojo.
This weekend we treated Moose for three days with Fenbendazole (Panacur) hoping to clear out any Giardia, Coccidia, or worms. Stool was okay the first two days, but he really lost his appetite and was lethargic. This morning, his stool was not quite normal (softish, some mucous). Then just about five minutes ago he dropped some smallish very moist, mucousy ...turds.. and then had a little dribbly mucous. Of course this happens 30 minutes after the vet calls for a check up.
Our next step is to collect soft stool sometime tomorrow or Thursday and send it off for testing (IDEXX). Fingers crossed that it tells us something.
@Sweet Girl: My first golden's name was Shalla! She passed about three years ago. She was AMAZING. Could not have asked for a better dog. I'm sure the name will bring you some good mojo.
This weekend we treated Moose for three days with Fenbendazole (Panacur) hoping to clear out any Giardia, Coccidia, or worms. Stool was okay the first two days, but he really lost his appetite and was lethargic. This morning, his stool was not quite normal (softish, some mucous). Then just about five minutes ago he dropped some smallish very moist, mucousy ...turds.. and then had a little dribbly mucous. Of course this happens 30 minutes after the vet calls for a check up.
Our next step is to collect soft stool sometime tomorrow or Thursday and send it off for testing (IDEXX). Fingers crossed that it tells us something.
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