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Of course she used Remington as an example. She put a cheese stick on a paper plate in front of him. Every time he's reach for it, she'd give the hand signal for "leave it" and when he kept trying to get it, she'd pinch his lip until he cried. She did this four time until he stopped going for the cheese and shied away from her. She then walked him around the cheese to see if he'd avoid it, which he did (thankfully!). I'm supposed to do this all week until class on Thursday, but I don't want to teach him this way and hurt him. Does this make anyone else uncomfortable? Or, am I just being overprotective?
 

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where the tails wag
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Personally, I would run away from that 'trainer'. After letting her know that her training skills need updating.
 

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What???? No you are not wrong at all in my opinion. That is just wrong. No way should she be inflicting pain on your puppy!

I would be furious!
 

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Kate
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I've never heard of pinching lips to teach leave it. I would not do it that way.

There are different ways to teach leave it. <- I use pop corrections on a leash, and this is mainly because my dogs will try grabbing things when I'm not close enough to grab their mouths. And there are specific ways to teach this that do not involve the puppy yelping or getting fearful - like would happen with pinching.
 

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I would run away as quickly as possible.

I've taught "leave it" with a clicker. Very small baby steps, but certainly never pinched a lip nor corrected. I've put something on the floor and put my foot over it, saying leave it, and the instant his nose moves away from it I click and treat. Eventually I've increased it so that my foot is off the item and he still won't touch it. It's now to where I can drop a piece of liver on the floor and say leave it and he leaves it alone.

All with clicker. No corrections. Tiny, baby steps.


 

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If a puppy shies from after "training," that's a sign that the training may not be ideal.

Teaching "leave it" is easy to do without aversives at all, much less harsh aversives that cause a puppy to cry out and become shy. While I don't think this method is evil (though I would describe it as outdated), I think you can do a whole heck of a lot better.

You can lay the basics for "leave it" in about five minutes by withholding the treat and providing alternate rewards (a method like Lilliam's will work beautifully). Then, you do another five minute session later that day. Twice a day, five minutes, and the pup will have a pretty reliable command in a few days.
 

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I would run away as quickly as possible.

I've taught "leave it" with a clicker. Very small baby steps, but certainly never pinched a lip nor corrected. I've put something on the floor and put my foot over it, saying leave it, and the instant his nose moves away from it I click and treat. Eventually I've increased it so that my foot is off the item and he still won't touch it. It's now to where I can drop a piece of liver on the floor and say leave it and he leaves it alone.

All with clicker. No corrections. Tiny, baby steps.
I echo this. This is how we taught 'leave it' and it is one of Vito's most solid commands.

I would run from that puppy class. I'm sorry that your puppy had to be the example for this. Poor guy.
 

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We did not. The wait was taught with food because she had such bad resource guarding.

Then we started "waiting" with alot of other treats and do it with all treats.

She has mastered the treat on her nose too :D



And as I stated above, we did the foot thing with the leave it (putting foot over food, then clicking). We really rarely use the clicker though.

Never used force to teach Bella. And she was star student in her puppy class and is really great here at home too if she's not being a wild, mannerless puppy haha
 

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Finley's pop
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I had a Golden who was into food more than any animal (four legged or two) I've ever seen. He learned to leave treats on his paws, stay away from the cat food, and catch a treat off his nose without ever crying in the teaching process.

Goldens are so trainable because they desperately want to please -- there are so many methods to use that don't cause any pain. I'd leave this trainer/training facility and ask for a refund.
 

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Kimberley, Bella's Mum!
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Go pinch the trainers lip & tell you're leaving her!
 

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I would not allow anyone trainer or not to make one of my boys cry I think that if they did when they tried it the second time I would do it to them and see how they liked it. I am so sick of trainers who think they have to hurt a dog to make them do what they want them to. I have never used any force or intimidation on my boys and they are just fine and learned how to be great boys with love and patience. Run from this trainer and find someone who cares as much about dogs as you do:no:
 

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Kate
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One thing I am thinking is - I would pinch lips if my dog clamps down on something very bad and I'm physically removing something from his mouth.

That's the only use I can think of in this context.

Before my guy had a solid give/spit command when he was a puppy, I discovered him dancing around with the intestines from a bunny that a hawk dropped out in the front yard.

In most cases, I would try to trade for an object, but there was no time or a higher value treat than those intestines.

That was the case where I pinched his lip until he opened his mouth and then I removed everything from his mouth. The pinch was only to the point that he opened his mouth and let me take everything out. There was no yelping.

I then reinforced with "leave it" training using the intestines and everything else as a set up. This was a seperate thing from the pinch. Again, no yelping or fear.

I use the same concept as Lilliam, except there is a correction for when the dog goes towards the object. When he backs away or avoids the object, there is a marker (I use "YES", but you can click) and a reward.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I had a Golden who was into food more than any animal (four legged or two) I've ever seen. He learned to leave treats on his paws, stay away from the cat food, and catch a treat off his nose without ever crying in the teaching process.

Goldens are so trainable because they desperately want to please -- there are so many methods to use that don't cause any pain. I'd leave this trainer/training facility and ask for a refund.
I am glad I posted this. I had never seen this taught this way and it took me off guard. I will teach him the way you all suggested...a much gentler way. As far as the class, I am torn what to do. Nice folks and their pups are there. I would kind of like to explain how I feel in front of all of them so they don't have to hurt their pups, either. But, I don't want to support her and she can be a bit condescending and know-it-all-ish. I could go and not let him be used as an example anymore and take what I can from it. Or, I could call and explain my uncomfortable position and ask for a refund. I will go back to my regular trainer. Timing wasn't perfect so I tried someone new. Not a good idea.:confused:
 
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