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My ideal dog is a dog that I could finish in AKC, get the CDX obedience title with, probably some rally thrown in there, and then enjoy the myriad of other non performance sports that AKC offers.
Do you care if the dog is competitive at all in obedience? Or do you just want a CDX? Big difference, IMO. I think many goldens can get to a 170 3 times in Open with decent training, so you could just look for a straight show lines golden. A dog can be "meh" about obedience and pass. If you want more than that (and there are no guarantees in life, as you can have variation within the litter itself), you may want to look at lines with higher level performance titles and competitive titles. If possible, watch the relatives work. Talk to the trainers/owners. Of course the training you do with the dog is a big factor, as well. ;)
 

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You have quite awhile to decide what kind of dog you want, whether that’s a Golden or another breed. No rush to commit!

Everyone is different and likes to train different types of temperaments as well as use different methods. I’m actually the opposite of Kate: I like the smart, sassy ones better than the soft ones. I have one of each. They both want to please and are biddable, but one shuts down if he does something wrong and the other just brushes it off and comes back for more.

And… you’ll learn a whole lot more about the breed over the next few years. You might decide that one or both breedings in question aren’t quite your style, conformationally.

Really and truly, most well-bred Goldens regardless of conformation status should be able to be trained through CDX and JH and compete without NQ-ing a thousand times. When I hear stories of dogs taking 12 times to get their CD, a large part of my brain says that it’s the trainer’s fault, not the dog’s. Many, many NQs happen through handler error anyway.

Moving on to another point I wanted to make: there has been a lot of emphasis on the sire line in this thread, but good bitches are the true backbone of most breeds. The bitch quality is also better in Goldens right now IMO. So, if and when you decide which direction you want to go, don’t leave out the importance of the dam’s role in the litter. They have a tremendous influence on the temperaments of the puppies. Eevee and most of her siblings that I have met are much more like their mother than they are like their fathers as far as personality goes.
 

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Jamie
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Everyone is different and likes to train different types of temperaments as well as use different methods. I’m actually the opposite of Kate: I like the smart, sassy ones better than the soft ones. I have one of each. They both want to please and are biddable, but one shuts down if he does something wrong and the other just brushes it off and comes back for more.
Same! Give me the dog that can handle some mental pressure with a solid work ethic! I strongly dislike training overly soft dogs.

To the OP - don't underestimate the importance of the dam's line and the grandparents. I have three males and in all three I see more of their grandparents in them then their actual parents. One takes after his maternal grandmother, my other takes after his paternal grandfather. Pick a breeder that does a good job temperament testing to get the type of dog you want.
 

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Kate
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Everyone is different and likes to train different types of temperaments as well as use different methods. I’m actually the opposite of Kate: I like the smart, sassy ones better than the soft ones. I have one of each. They both want to please and are biddable, but one shuts down if he does something wrong and the other just brushes it off and comes back for more.
I've got one of each too... :D Soft and squishy Jovi has always been easier to train. He listens so much better and tries very hard to be right. He rapidly caught up to where his dad was in training even as a puppy. Just very spongey and determined. Reliable.

Glee is very very very smart and.... well, crazy. He is not as soft as his brother and definitely brushes off corrections and keeps trucking - but I have to work so much harder to keep him contained and working at the same pace I am. Showing up for classes with him, I typically need to steer off to the side away from everyone else while warming up because he's that crazy. :) Once he's warmed up, he outworks all other dogs and definitely a dream to train with... but it's getting there that's a lot of exertion.

Both were and are relatively easy to train, but like I said - smart and crazy is a lot more work. And don't forget the dirty looks. >.<

With Glee I get a lot of dirty and judgemental looks from people who see him jumping and spinning and flying when I arrive at the conformation ring. And I got the same looks when I arrived at drop in obedience classes the first time that many had a chance to see him. The obedience classes were especially gratifying because we went from people looking askance at him boinging around to them coming up and asking about his pedigree when he outdid all their dogs in every exercise. :D
 

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In terms of Obedience, I think titles in the pedigree are sometimes a useful indication of capability within the line and indicate that the breeder is probably paying attention to trainability, but the actual traits of ancestors and other related dogs are far more important. I’ve been involved in dogs for long enough to know that skilled and persistent trainers can put titles on most dogs.
When I’m looking for a puppy, I look at related dogs. Are they “natural retrievers” - dog’s that are happiest with something in their mouth? Are they relaxed and confident? Do they pay attention to their handlers or are they easily distracted? Are they persistent or would they quit if training was difficult? Are they equable or do they eyeball other dogs? (I’d hate to own a dog that I had to watch like a hawk around other dogs.) I pay attention to the lines I like, but also take note of lines I want to avoid.
It surprising how much you can learn by watching people’s videos of their dogs on social media, or by watching the dogs themselves outside the show ring. I guess that’s the Obedience equivalent of putting your hands on the dog and feeling structure under the coat, rather than just looking at the pedigree.
All true. Although, it does pay to remember to watch at more than one trial. Dogs have off days, just like people do. My normally undistracted dog decided to watch another dog in a neighboring ring last time I showed him. First time he ever failed an exercise due to lack of attention.
 
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I've got one of each too... :D Soft and squishy Jovi has always been easier to train. He listens so much better and tries very hard to be right. He rapidly caught up to where his dad was in training even as a puppy. Just very spongey and determined. Reliable.

Glee is very very very smart and.... well, crazy. He is not as soft as his brother and definitely brushes off corrections and keeps trucking - but I have to work so much harder to keep him contained and working at the same pace I am. Showing up for classes with him, I typically need to steer off to the side away from everyone else while warming up because he's that crazy. :) Once he's warmed up, he outworks all other dogs and definitely a dream to train with... but it's getting there that's a lot of exertion.

Both were and are relatively easy to train, but like I said - smart and crazy is a lot more work. And don't forget the dirty looks. >.<

With Glee I get a lot of dirty and judgemental looks from people who see him jumping and spinning and flying when I arrive at the conformation ring. And I got the same looks when I arrived at drop in obedience classes the first time that many had a chance to see him. The obedience classes were especially gratifying because we went from people looking askance at him boinging around to them coming up and asking about his pedigree when he outdid all their dogs in every exercise. :D
I think the looks are just jealousy. ;-)
 

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jumping and spinning and flying when I arrive at the conformation ring. And I got the same looks when I arrived at drop in obedience classes the first time that many had a chance to see him. The obedience classes were especially gratifying because we went from people looking askance at him boinging around to them coming up and asking about his pedigree when he outdid all their dogs in every exercise. :D
Jumping and spinning, you say? Boinging? Tell me more... :ROFLMAO:

Assuming they have some focus, I LOVE training this kind of dog, btw! You have years of fun ahead of you. Although, yes, it may be harder to contain them and take a while to get the ring ready in obedience...a dog with some spring and enthusiasm is a BLAST to work with! ;)
 

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Everyone is different and likes to train different types of temperaments as well as use different methods. I’m actually the opposite of Kate: I like the smart, sassy ones better than the soft ones. I have one of each. They both want to please and are biddable, but one shuts down if he does something wrong and the other just brushes it off and comes back for more.
The smart, sassy ones are the best teachers! My smart, sassy one is now my granddaughter's 4-H dog.We have told her that she really is a great dog to start with and when she gets a puppy she will find it much easier to train with what she's learning now.

My softer guy doesn't shut down if he's wrong. It was never an option though. I just make the corrections less harsh than I would for my girl. He always gets praise the second he's correct again. He has definitely taught me some things too.

Which one do I prefer training? Depends on the sport. They will both do anything I ask but they have different opinions on what they enjoy best.
 

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Do you care if the dog is competitive at all in obedience? Or do you just want a CDX? Big difference, IMO. I think many goldens can get to a 170 3 times in Open with decent training, so you could just look for a straight show lines golden. A dog can be "meh" about obedience and pass. If you want more than that (and there are no guarantees in life, as you can have variation within the litter itself), you may want to look at lines with higher level performance titles and competitive titles. If possible, watch the relatives work. Talk to the trainers/owners. Of course the training you do with the dog is a big factor, as well. ;)
I feel like every level takes a lot of work. I mean, I totally get what you're saying. It's not just a CD or CDX though. Not for someone just starting out. I know that so many of us have been at it so long that the lower levels no longer have much meaning. I am always cheering on my students no matter what level they are entered in. Nothing beats seeing them walk up to you with a huge smile on their face saying they got a BN leg or they finished a title at level they never been before!

Utility is a whole different animal. It's the most difficult thing I've personally ever done with my dogs.

Get the train back on the track......

I do agree with looking at lines with those traits you really want. And there really are no guarantees but choosing from characteristics you want will put the odds in your favor.
 

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Abielle - 100% - obedience means putting a TON of time into your dog, even for a CD, CDX. It is NOT easy. That comment was more directed at her original question about pedigrees and whether she should even worry about performance titles in the pedigree. I personally like to see them, but that's because of my personal goals with my dogs. Her goals may be different. This is also the nice thing about obedience - everyone can have their own goals. ;)
 

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The smart, sassy ones are the best teachers! My smart, sassy one is now my granddaughter's 4-H dog.We have told her that she really is a great dog to start with and when she gets a puppy she will find it much easier to train with what she's learning now.

My softer guy doesn't shut down if he's wrong. It was never an option though. I just make the corrections less harsh than I would for my girl. He always gets praise the second he's correct again. He has definitely taught me some things too.

Which one do I prefer training? Depends on the sport. They will both do anything I ask but they have different opinions on what they enjoy best.
Rocket does shut down. Even if I don't correct him, but he knows he did something wrong - like refusing a jump for instance - he will shut himself down. It's not as bad if we are training because I can have food on me and we can work back into it, but in competition I can't bring him back up.
 

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Rocket does shut down. Even if I don't correct him, but he knows he did something wrong - like refusing a jump for instance - he will shut himself down. It's not as bad if we are training because I can have food on me and we can work back into it, but in competition I can't bring him back up.
That stinks. You need to find a way to convince him it's no big deal and he needs to keep working. Maybe try to get him to move on without treats in training. I've always just said "Oops! Let's try again!" and no treat. Then helped him get it right if needed. You've probably already tried that though. Pilot's correction for not sitting on a go out is to calmly walk out to him and reinforce it, Winx would get something a little more harsh with immediate praise.
 

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I like the smart, sassy ones better than the soft ones. I have one of each. They both want to please and are biddable, but one shuts down if he does something wrong and the other just brushes it off and comes back for more.
….
Eevee and most of her siblings that I have met are much more like their mother than they are like their fathers as far as personality goes.
I have nothing of note to add here because I’m very much still just learning about all the things, but I wanted to +1 both these comments.

The spicy ones (imo) are so much easier to train with, so much more forgiving of mistakes. Underneath Kaizer’s idiocy, he really is such a soft, sensitive dog at heart. All it would take was for me to roll my eyes at him, and he was done - checked out, disconnected. It took forever for me (as a very novice handler) to figure out how to work through all that. He hates feeling like he let me down. Eden on the other hand? She doesn’t care. I’m 99% sure if she could talk that she’d say it was all my fault for not handling her better. She’s just easier to train cause I don’t have to worry about her feelings lol.

and yes, Eden is literally the copy/paste version of her mom in most ways. All of the weird quirks and mannerisms come directly from her lol. The main difference, personality wise, is that her mom is much softer than Eden is
 

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I had thought we had a sensitive dog because he's so open to being cuddled and will stick to you like glue, but after hearing everyone's descriptions... our puppy is just like @Megora's Glee ... crazy at the top and needs a few minutes to come off of it, and then he's amazing. He learns incredibly fast. He also has no fears -- we brought him home on NYE 2020 and he doesn't have any reactions to fireworks and I didn't need to desensitize him with treats to them or any other loud noises. We take him to a private puppy gym to work him out where we have access to all agility apparatuses and he takes to an A-frame and will jump over and through anything for the first time like it's nothing.

As far as corrections, nothing gets him down. And he loves retrieving so much that my husband thinks that if you let him, he will continue playing fetch with you until he collapses.

Our handler says she prefers this energy as they are more likely to do well in the ring and enjoy it, and possibly better to train as well.
 

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No, I’m looking at actual obedience and hunt test titles.
Be aware that AKC Junior Hunter (JH) titles require very little training and almost no field talent, UKC Started even less. They indicate a desire to retrieve and not much more.
You can look up a dogs history on entry express, https://www.entryexpress.net/Announcement.aspx
Passing four tests earns a JH title. Multiple failed tests before getting a title is not a good sign.
A Senior Hunter (SH) title is a considerable step up. I would consider it to indicate a dog with desire and average ability as a hunting companion. Again, a dog can fail an unlimited number of tests but gets an SH title with 5 passes (or 4 plus a JH title). You need to do a little research before assuming hunt test titles mean anything.
 

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Again, a dog can fail an unlimited number of tests but gets an SH title with 5 passes (or 4 plus a JH title). You need to do a little research before assuming hunt test titles mean anything.
1000x this! There are some breeders that refuse to wash dogs and instead just keep trying over and over again to get passes. At that point its more about luck than actual talent. Luckily there are resources to discover a dog's pass rate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Be aware that AKC Junior Hunter (JH) titles require very little training and almost no field talent, UKC Started even less. They indicate a desire to retrieve and not much more.
You can look up a dogs history on entry express, Entry Express Event Management Systems
Passing four tests earns a JH title. Multiple failed tests before getting a title is not a good sign.
A Senior Hunter (SH) title is a considerable step up. I would consider it to indicate a dog with desire and average ability as a hunting companion. Again, a dog can fail an unlimited number of tests but gets an SH title with 5 passes (or 4 plus a JH title). You need to do a little research before assuming hunt test titles mean anything.
Thank you for telling me where to look that up! I know that for both obedience and field work, there’s very little that a dog should have to run more than the required number of times If the dog is conpetent and able, but I wasn’t sure how to check that. I’ve been told that the JH tests miss the mark a bit, but I consider it better than nothing, because from what I can tell, this way you know the dog has the desire to work, and does not have too much coat that would hamper its work.
 

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Thank you for telling me where to look that up! I know that for both obedience and field work, there’s very little that a dog should have to run more than the required number of times If the dog is conpetent and able, but I wasn’t sure how to check that. I’ve been told that the JH tests miss the mark a bit, but I consider it better than nothing, because from what I can tell, this way you know the dog has the desire to work, and does not have too much coat that would hamper its work.
I wouldn’t rely on JHs for this. If you get the chance I really encourage you to go to hunt tests and watch them. The difference between a JH and an MH is huge. I don’t think a JH will tell you about the coat quality/length/usefulness.
But I hope you get the chance to watch a test!! It was a real eye opener for me
 

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I’ve been told that the JH tests miss the mark a bit, but I consider it better than nothing, because from what I can tell, this way you know the dog has the desire to work, and does not have too much coat that would hamper its work.
A JH test is 4 single marked retrieves, 2 land and 2 water, under 100 yards. The dog needs to sit at the line but can be restrained with a lead and collar until sent and must then deliver to hand.
This is very basic puppy level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I wouldn’t rely on JHs for this. If you get the chance I really encourage you to go to hunt tests and watch them. The difference between a JH and an MH is huge. I don’t think a JH will tell you about the coat quality/length/usefulness.
But I hope you get the chance to watch a test!! It was a real eye opener for me
Unfortunately there aren’t any in my immediate area (where I live is the opposite of a hunting area), and my parents won’t want to bring me to one just to watch one, and I don’t understand the terms (things like marks, blinds, etc could be in Greek for all I understand) enough to fully understand the differences between the levels.
 
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