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I have a question about Ichthyosis. I've been breeding for 35 yrs. I have been DNA testing my girls for Icthyosis before I breed them. I had a litter 6 months ago. Mother was clear by DNA testing. Father was clear by parentage. Both his parents were DNA clear. She had 9 puppies by C-section. She isn't a big girl and was packed tight. Her cervix had opened but she had no contractions and was getting to be overdue. So we did a C-section. One horn was stuffed with 6 puppies and 3 in the other. 2 of the puppies had very little fur and were smaller and had a very weak suck. Their skin was dry and peeling. I tube fed for a few days and their fur came in and they had a great suck. They developed the same as their siblings except they had dandruff. In fact their eyes opened a day earlier! At 7 weeks one stood out from the others in conformation and personality. She had been the favourite when anyone came to visit. They both still had the dandruff. I placed one with a family knowing that I didn't know how things would turn out. I kept one. I took her to a dermatologist and he found she had a lot of bacteria and yeast so was treated for that. So was her sister. They didn't improve so I had a skin biopsy done last week. I also sent her own blood for a DNA and it came back clear for Ichthyosis. I just got her skin biopsy results and she has Ichthyosis. I'm quite confused !! Has anyone heard of mutant strains turning up after all dogs concerned have had clear DNA testing done? Do you have any suggestions for the dandruff? I'm trying different shampoos. They are on extra fish oil. They are not itchy. It is just very flakey.
AnnJ
 

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Kate
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I've heard of two things -

QC issues with tests. I'm not sure how this happens - either false negatives from the labs or? Like people doing cheek swabs instead of blood tests???? Have also heard that certain labs had higher percentages of false negatives (Optigen or paw print?).

A different form of ichythyosis.

I do know of a sire out there where it is posted on K9data that he tested clear, but stud owner privately tells breeders that her dog is a carrier.
 

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Thank you for your reply. We wondered about the testing but they were all blood tests at different labs. I've known the stud dog owner for years and have used her boys many times. One lab. commented that it could be a mutant.
 

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I too know of a stud dog owner who does not publicly admit ICT Carrier (at least) status. I have seen breedings on k9data after the date she was aware of status (because I had that puppy mentioned in prior threads for training who was dropping flakes by the cupful and TOLD her myself he had to be a carrier at least). It makes me sad for the breed that a stud fee is more important to some people with popular stud dogs than avoiding producing affected puppies.
Honestly- to me - recessive traits are 3rd grade level understanding. Its no different than eye color!
There does appear to be another form of ICT showing up, that, or the 'clear by parentage' piece wasn't done correctly. DNA is everywhere and swabs must be protected to not contaminate. CBP is only good for one generation in most anyone's eyes since mutations do occur. IF the sire of the OPs litter was truly CBP, that is, both his sire and dam were tested using the Antagene lab protocol, I would suspect a mutation in those two puppies. Sometimes uterine conditions (and it sounds like the bitch's uterus was unusually non-hospitable on one side, perhaps it was chemical or maybe it was just the lining being inadequate to support puppies well) can cause mutations in utero. I had a litter once where one horn produced puppies all of whom had Black Spot Phenomenon. The other side was normal. My vet posited that chemically normal cell division may have been different on that side. BSP is not unusual, be we don't usually even notice the few hairs that have mutated back to the dominant black.
 

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Kate
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IF the sire of the OPs litter was truly CBP, that is, both his sire and dam were tested using the Antagene lab protocol, I would suspect a mutation in those two puppies.
The dog I'm thinking of was tested twice, including antagene. And you can look the dog up on OFA and he has normal/clear posted there.

This dog is a fantastic dog. Would not out him to cause him any harm. The stud owner is at least privately giving breeders a heads up.
 
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