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I ♥ Bailey and Annie!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The first puppy I picked up had severe aggression at 7 weeks. She was attacking me several times a day viciously. I brought her back to the breeders right away. We all decided to name her Bailey.

I researched breeders and what to look for in a new pup. It took me two months to find the second pup.

Now my second Bailey is showing aggressions to Madison. She is growling, showing her teeth and snapping at her. Before this weekend, Bailey has shown some garding issues with marrow bones and pigs ears with me and growled at me. We worked past that.

Now Bailey has shown quite a bit of aggression towards my 6 year old. Last friday night Madison tried to get Bailey out of her kennel by her neck and that is how it started. It's gone downhill since then. Bailey snapped at Madison this morning for no reason. It was competely my fault for not watching my girls. They were also being very loud that night with excitement.

I'm not giving up on Bailey. I will work this through even if I have to muzzle her around the kids, but I feel like I have failed her. I have an appointment with the vets office tomorrow. The receptionist says the vet is also a behavior specialist. I will take it from there. I will take Bailey along with my 3 girls to obedience classes, so we all do this properly.

On top of that. I've been having an extremely hard time with my severe chronic pain. I recently left the spine center due to them giving me the run around. I was seeing an MD, but he just dismissed me due to not taking care of chronic pain patients. I have a spinal cord nerve injury in my neck and I recently found out it most likely is permanent. I found a pain clinic that looks promising, but I don't have an appointment for 3 weeks.

Also, my 8 year old has been up all night crying her eyes out due to her ear hurting. I'm assuming she has a inner ear infection. I called the clinic early and they told me they were too busy to get her in. I called another clinic and the same thing. I had called the original clinic and finally I have an appointment this afternoon due to a cancellation.
 

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Humankind. Be both.
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Hang in there...

One thought -- unless your vet is a veterinary behaviorist (a degree), I'd be careful about taking too much behvioral advice. Behavior isn't really covered in vet school. Most vets I've worked with are dispensing old-school, compulsion-based techniques such as "show the dog who's boss," etc. This is training a' la the dark ages and most always eventually backfires in cases of aggression.

Check out www.apdt.com. They have a great trainer search function.
 

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My first thought/instinct is Bailey is just teething and going thru a landshark obnoxious puppy phase. Mine did too... I literally was covered in cuts and scratches from him snapping and biting me for a good month during this phase. Of course only you know if what you are experiencing with Bailey is that, or something much more extreme.

I'd just say be consistent... if you feel its not a normal puppy phase and wish to seek a professional trainer, do that.. but I'd venture to say with consistant training, bite inhibition, and supervision around your daughter, once those puppy teeth all fall out Bailey's biting/nipping will lessen dramatically.
 

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I ♥ Bailey and Annie!
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My first thought/instinct is Bailey is just teething and going thru a landshark obnoxious puppy phase. Mine did too... I literally was covered in cuts and scratches from him snapping and biting me for a good month during this phase. Of course only you know if what you are experiencing with Bailey is that, or something much more extreme.

I'd just say be consistent... if you feel its not a normal puppy phase and wish to seek a professional trainer, do that.. but I'd venture to say with consistant training, bite inhibition, and supervision around your daughter, once those puppy teeth all fall out Bailey's biting/nipping will lessen dramatically.
I wish it was bite inhibition, that is easy to deal with. Bailey has gotten all her teeth and does not play bite whatsoever. I really don't think this is normal. I'm thinking that Bailey sees Madison below her. Bailey was on the opposite side of my husband when she snapped at her this morning. She was a couple feet away. Snarling and everything. It happened fast. Bailey is in her kennel for most of today, the kids are home from school. I will take her for a long walk when I get back from taking my daughter to the doctors.

I have Madison feeding Bailey all her food right now and I drizzled a tiny bit of bacon greese on the food to make it really yummy.

Bailey is giving Madions several warnings since Friday night and I'm sitting right next to them both.
 

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I ♥ Bailey and Annie!
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hang in there...

One thought -- unless your vet is a veterinary behaviorist (a degree), I'd be careful about taking too much behvioral advice. Behavior isn't really covered in vet school. Most vets I've worked with are dispensing old-school, compulsion-based techniques such as "show the dog who's boss," etc. This is training a' la the dark ages and most always eventually backfires in cases of aggression.

Check out www.apdt.com. They have a great trainer search function.

Thank you for the information. I did not know that about the vet's office. I will ask tomorrow when I get there. I think they said he was certified, but I'm not 100% sure. I want her to get a full exam anyways to make sure there is nothing medically wrong with her like an ear infection.

I checked the website and there are a couple places listed. :)
 

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Humankind. Be both.
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Here's another bit of food for thought...

I really don't think dogs take us into consideration when forming their "pack." We aren't dogs and we don't behave one little bit like dogs do.

IMO, dogs do what works. They "obey" some people better than others b/c it works better for them... not because they "respect" that person more.

Just putting this out there to say I doubt the issue w/ Bailey and Madison is related to a respect thing... rather, Bailey learned that growling/snapping keeps the "annoying/scary/whatever she's feeling about Madison right now" little person away.

The answer will lie in changing her associations w/ Madison as well as teaching Bailey alternate coping strategies for when she does feel stressed in Madison's presense + teaching Madison how to handle herself around the dog. And, since you said she's always seemed a bit anxious to you, making sure that she's not forced to particpate in loud, boisterious activities that may lower her tolerance for the kids, etc.

There are very few veterinary behaviorists out there (few vets want to tack on the extra education!). If your vet is one, he/she will either be a veterinary behaviorist or a certified applied animal behaviorist (which is a MA or higher in a behavior-related field plus certification by ABS (Animal Behavior Society) or IAABC... or maybe a couple other behavior-related certifying groups that I'm not thinking of right now.
 

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Nicole,

I do not have any advice but just wanted to tell you to hang in there. You are definitely not a failure. You are doing everything right. I hope something changes soon.

I am sorry you are in so much pain. I have a friend who works with pain management. It is a terrible thing to go through! I am sorry you have to endure so much pain.

Hope your little one's ear gets better soon!

Keep us posted!
 

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I ♥ Bailey and Annie!
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Here's another bit of food for thought...

I really don't think dogs take us into consideration when forming their "pack." We aren't dogs and we don't behave one little bit like dogs do.

IMO, dogs do what works. They "obey" some people better than others b/c it works better for them... not because they "respect" that person more.

Just putting this out there to say I doubt the issue w/ Bailey and Madison is related to a respect thing... rather, Bailey learned that growling/snapping keeps the "annoying/scary/whatever she's feeling about Madison right now" little person away.

The answer will lie in changing her associations w/ Madison as well as teaching Bailey alternate coping strategies for when she does feel stressed in Madison's presense + teaching Madison how to handle herself around the dog. And, since you said she's always seemed a bit anxious to you, making sure that she's not forced to particpate in loud, boisterious activities that may lower her tolerance for the kids, etc.

There are very few veterinary behaviorists out there (few vets want to tack on the extra education!). If your vet is one, he/she will either be a veterinary behaviorist or a certified applied animal behaviorist (which is a MA or higher in a behavior-related field plus certification by ABS (Animal Behavior Society) or IAABC... or maybe a couple other behavior-related certifying groups that I'm not thinking of right now.

This makes sense. I've had a couple talks with the children already on how to respect dogs, I should of done this before we bought the puppy. I've went on google and searched dog bite child and saw some graphic photos and showed those to the children as well, so they would get a better picture how important this is.

I ordered a book this morning from Amazon.com, so I know I'm doing this the right way. I will continue to remind the children how to respect dogs. They have never been mean to Bailey, but I'm sure they pushed thier limits with her, especially trying to get her out of the kennel.
 

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I ♥ Bailey and Annie!
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Nicole,

I do not have any advice but just wanted to tell you to hang in there. You are definitely not a failure. You are doing everything right. I hope something changes soon.

I am sorry you are in so much pain. I have a friend who works with pain management. It is a terrible thing to go through! I am sorry you have to endure so much pain.

Hope your little one's ear gets better soon!

Keep us posted!
Thanks. :) No one really knows what it's like to live with severe chronic pain unless they've experienced chronic pain themselves, especially when it's poorly managed. It's awful.
 

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My first advice is to take away the "High Value items". The pig ears, the bacon grease.

At about 8 to 10 months old, we had two incidents with Brady. He growled and drew blood from two of my children.

The first incident was when the two of them were sitting right beside me, he bit my then 4 year old in the face. I was puzzled, upset, did not know what to think. Could not figure out what my daughter did. I knew it was not typical of my puppy. The next day, my day care provider got her to tell her that she was picking boogies out of Brady's nose! No wonder why he bit her!

The next time was when Brady was chewing on his first bully stick. My then 9 year old, went and stepped around him. He bit her pretty bad. We took the "Highly valued item" away and started the hand feeding by every family member. I gradually brought back the bully sticks, but the kids were not allowed near him. I would then take them from him and give them back.

He has been fine now for the past 2 years. When he has a bully stick, he will now actually want to sit on my kids laps while he chews them.
 

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I agree with Stephanie. Since Madison was doing things like grabbing Bailey by the neck and pulling her out of her den, Bailey may feel a little threatened. And since growling and snapping worked to keep Madison away, Bailey may be resorting to that behavior simply because she knows it's effective.

It absolutely doesn't make Bailey an "aggressive" dog, but you definitely need to change the way that Madison interacts with her right away. Show Bailey that Madison is a source of yummy and fun things, especially when Bailey works for Madison, and make sure Madison isn't forcing Bailey to do things, rushing at Bailey, staring at Bailey in the eyes, or grabbing her at all.

Basically, you want to show Bailey that she's safe and that working with Madison is fun and has great benefits.
 

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Nancy
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I'm so sorry you're going through this. Hopefully the vet can give you some insight. YOU ARE NOT FAILURE!! (((hugs)))
 

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Tess and Liza
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I don't quite know what to say: hang on in there, you're doing everything possible to work things out, and you are most definitely not a failure, just a loving mom!
 

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Obedience is necessary but probably won't address the aggression issue. I'm not an expert by any means but I'd like to ask how long have you been living w/your neck injury/condition? I'm thinking you had it even back when you got the first Bailey? In addition to the pain I know there's must be a fair amount of stress/frustration you must be feeling due to that pain and not being able to find someone who can treat your injury adequately. My guess would be that your dogs sense your distress and are becoming overly protective of you.
 

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You've gotten good advice already. I think teaching Madison the right way to handle Bailey is key. Change Bailey's and Madison's interactions so to that they are always positive. If Madison needs to wants to move the puppy use a treat or toy to entice Bailey to cooperate.

Look up Nothing in Life is Free training on the internet and read through those steps, it might be helpful.

The vet exam is a good idea, it's possible Bailey has an ear infection, or a new tooth coming in that's causing her some pain.

You are not a failure! You are doing everything you can, and looking for more help and educating yourself, that's all good and will have positive results.
 

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I am so glad Steph was on GRF and able to give you feedback. She is wonderful when it comes to any kind of dog behavior issue.

I am so sorry you are going through all these painful stressors as the same time! Hope your child's ear can be treated and feel better fast.
Sounds like you are on the Bailey behavior issue and doing the right thing. You are a great mom, dogs and kids!

I too have chronic pain. I am so sorry... it is so difficult to deal with any situation when you are in horrible pain. I think you are amazing!
 

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When Bailey has snapped at Madison, how have you and your husband corrected her? You mentioned it happened fast one time--that Bailey was on the opposite side of your husband (and I assume Madison was on the other side). Did you just let it slide? Or did you put Bailey in her crate for a time out? Your obedience instructor/behaviorist is going to be in the best position to give you guidance as to exactly what is going on within the dynamics of your family, and as FlyingQ has said, very few vets are certified animal behaviorists (for example, in my state, Florida, I believe we have only two vets that are certified in my entire state) so you don't want to deal with a "behaviorist" unless they truly are certified.
 

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One word of caution is to try not to make Madison afraid of Bailey. It's can be a delicate balance between respect and fear. Dogs can pick up on fear and react negatively to it.
 

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I was also going to say, it sounds like you and your family are going through some stress with your injury and your son's ear infection, Bailey may be reacting to that. I hope things start to move forward for you, and maybe finding ways to de-stress would help in general.

You are being pro-active with this, I know you will find a solution.
 

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Loving goldens since '95
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You are not a failure! You are on here trying to get advice on how to correct it - Good for you!! Others have already provided some better advice than I could give, so I will instead, offer you my sympathy and support - for both situations of Bailey & Madison as well as your pain.

It often seems like everything happens at the same time, so just remember to breathe - take a time out for yourself. You will get through it all!!

Please keep us posted on how everything works out with Bailey & Madison (because it will!!)
 
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