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In your state, when you trial/hunt test your dog, is possession of a hunting license required?


I am in New York. No license is required.
 

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Yes in Illinois, if you are an Illinois resident. Never saw it enforced, however.
 

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the party's crashing us
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If you eat at a seafood restaurant do you need a fishing license? ;)

FTR, no, that is silly
 

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One of the NE states requires them- kinda think it is ME but may be CT or the like.. anyway- no one checks, premium list for test said required maybe 3-4 years ago when last I looked but think it is an understood not going to be adhered to. I guess technically any gunner would have one though.
 

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Puddles
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Not trying to create an issue but going to ask anyway. I totally get there are people that hunt and love to watch the dogs work the fields. To achieve a JH or higher it makes sense to use birds as this would be required to actually hunt with this dog. But...
the WC/WCX seems to be geared more about the retrieve than the hunting aspect. OK, be patient with me I'm just asking!
If the goal is to evaluate the ability or degree of desire to retrieve, why can't they use bumpers vs ducks?

Ok, I think mallards are beautiful and can only imagine how many die just to test the dogs ability to retrieve. Hunting has a purpose, I get this and have plucked many a duck when living on the TX coast. I'm just curious. Be kind 0:)
 

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Not trying to create an issue but going to ask anyway. I totally get there are people that hunt and love to watch the dogs work the fields. To achieve a JH or higher it makes sense to use birds as this would be required to actually hunt with this dog. But...
the WC/WCX seems to be geared more about the retrieve than the hunting aspect. OK, be patient with me I'm just asking!
If the goal is to evaluate the ability or degree of desire to retrieve, why can't they use bumpers vs ducks?

Ok, I think mallards are beautiful and can only imagine how many die just to test the dogs ability to retrieve. Hunting has a purpose, I get this and have plucked many a duck when living on the TX coast. I'm just curious. Be kind 0:)
The simple answer is so they can demonstrate nose work during the hunt/retrieving process. I've also seen dogs that would pick up bumpers and refuse a duck/goose. (especially geese in an actual hunting environment) I don't use the scent for bumpers. I just don't like it and haven't ever found it necessary.

No license required in Delaware, but in the last few years they did start a new thing where you get free access to state parks if you show your DE hunting license. It even works for the beaches here that are state parks.
 

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OK, I ran a Derby and I think it was North Carolina (Cape Fear). I needed a license to be legal. Last minute shopping on the computer, and keep in mind for the most part I am computer illiterate, made me legal. And I had actually read a thread in another forum about the Game Wardens showing up at a trial to issue citations for no license.
 

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puddles


I will be kind.

I, as a hunter/hunt tester/occasional trialer would never look at a dog that hasn't shown extreme birdiness. We actually test our puppies for birdiness and we don't do it with bumpers. Keep in mind that all dogs retrieve, every dog will carry around his toy. Putting it on command may show what kind of desire the dog has. Strong desire in a dog will make it easier to teach retrieving IMO.
 

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Where I am, no, because CKC doesn't use live flyers in tests. I can see why the gunners/handlers who are shooting would need gun licenses for tests with live flyers.
 

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Puddles
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Thanks all! I get there is nose work involved but if the spirit of the WC/WCX is retrieve not hunt it makes no sense to require fresh kills. If the dog demonstrates the nose work/keep looking determination, what difference does it make if it's a bird or a bumper? Speaking directly to the WC/WCX testing only. In the hunting trials I totally agree the dog needs to be able to retrieve a bird.... at this level it's ability to assist the hunter not simply the skill to retrieve.

Thanks Sweet Girl, if the CKC is not using live flyers it helps me to think this is a valid consideration. I haven't found a bird to train with yet but my girl will retrieve anything that is tossed by me or anyone else if sent. She will not give up until it's found and returned to hand.

But thanks for not blasting me for hijacking the thread. Obviously I'm in the learning phase to all this.
 

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In your state, when you trial/hunt test your dog, is possession of a hunting license required?


I am in New York. No license is required.
Not required in my state.
Frankly, it's not logical for states to require a hunting license at a trial/test (even for flyer shooters) because the birds used in trials are pen raised (i.e., via commercial operations), just like the chickens and turkeys conveniently found in the freezer section at your favorite grocery store.
FTGoldens
 

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OK, I ran a Derby and I think it was North Carolina (Cape Fear). I needed a license to be legal. Last minute shopping on the computer, and keep in mind for the most part I am computer illiterate, made me legal. And I had actually read a thread in another forum about the Game Wardens showing up at a trial to issue citations for no license.
NC always finds a way to charge for pretty much everything here.
 

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Kate
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Thanks all! I get there is nose work involved but if the spirit of the WC/WCX is retrieve not hunt it makes no sense to require fresh kills. If the dog demonstrates the nose work/keep looking determination, what difference does it make if it's a bird or a bumper? Speaking directly to the WC/WCX testing only. In the hunting trials I totally agree the dog needs to be able to retrieve a bird.... at this level it's ability to assist the hunter not simply the skill to retrieve.

Thanks Sweet Girl, if the CKC is not using live flyers it helps me to think this is a valid consideration. I haven't found a bird to train with yet but my girl will retrieve anything that is tossed by me or anyone else if sent. She will not give up until it's found and returned to hand.

But thanks for not blasting me for hijacking the thread. Obviously I'm in the learning phase to all this.

It's not necessarily getting the dogs to hunt for the birds.

It's getting the dogs to actually pick up the birds + bring them back to the handler.

The birds smell AWFUL. :( The ones we used while training - it's a urine type smell. They also bite + have claws.

A fussy mouthed dog like my Bertie frequently enjoys SMELLING things like that, but they don't like the smell or the sharp ouchies in their mouths. <= Bertie fetched birds because I asked him to, but you could literally see him throwing up in his mouth over the experience. :laugh:

Then the other issue is the opposite type dog who is ENTHRALLED with birds and want to KEEP THEM and EAT THEM (ie like my Jovi) - that's something you need to test on since a dog that shreds, eats, plays keep away with a bird is a useless hunting dog.
 

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Puddles
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Thank you Megora. That response made sense and can totally understand the need for a hunter to know if a dog is willing to return a bird intact.... at the JH level.

Like I said I'm learning... the way WC/WCX was explained to me had very little to do with the bird but more about the ability to take direction, show self control and desire to retrieve. Memory skills for a double & in the case of WCX a triple. And the willingness to take to water and swim the distance vs running around the lake to the closest point of entry & swim the target back to hand.

Being an obedience person I sort of made the comparison of WC to the Novice level. This doesn't ask the dog to take a dumbbell or a jump, this comes at a higher level of training.

So while I understand the necessity of knowing bird skills for hunting, it still makes no sense that a bird be required to complete the exercises described for WC/WCX. But obviously it's strictly an opinion and not the way it is. I'm not trying to change the rules, just love the beautiful ducks! And it's really, really hard for people that don't hunt to find a bird to train with. You can go to multiple sites and order obedience or agility equipment. Why is it so hard to find a bird?
 

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Not in VA. However the flyer permit is restricted to only from August 1st through May 31st. A trial or even hunt test cannot have flyers during June 1st through July 31st.

"A field trial may be defined as an organized event (not training) where live wild or captive-bred game animals and game birds are hunted as defined in § 29.1-100 which includes the act of or the attempted act of taking, hunting, trapping, pursuing, chasing, shooting, snaring or netting birds or animals, and assisting any person who is hunting, trapping or attempting to do so regardless of whether birds or animals are actually taken. Such events may only take place during the field trial season defined in 4 VAC 15-290-115 with the following exception: Foxhound training preserves may hunt confined fox year round within the permitted enclosures if all participants possess valid hunting licenses. If foxhound training preserves wish to by-pass the hunting license requirement, they must obtain a dog trial permit which will only be issued during the field trial season. Events where no live animals are involved will not require a permit. Event coordinators should contact the Permits Section at (804) 367-6913 to inquire as to whether a permit is necessary."
 

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Kate
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Thank you Megora. That response made sense and can totally understand the need for a hunter to know if a dog is willing to return a bird intact.... at the JH level.

Like I said I'm learning... the way WC/WCX was explained to me had very little to do with the bird but more about the ability to take direction, show self control and desire to retrieve. Memory skills for a double & in the case of WCX a triple. And the willingness to take to water and swim the distance vs running around the lake to the closest point of entry & swim the target back to hand.
OK - I'm answering as somebody LIVES in the obedience world (I had a ton of fun the last obedience trial and can't wait to get back out there for the next trial and hopefully finish title #1 for one of my dogs) - and not somebody who lives in the field world. Although I admit to checking out the distance to Shelly (Sterre)'s place where she does field training. I'm 3.5 hours away. Heheh. That seems like a lot, except I vaguely know the distance to a field guy in-state is about 2 hours away.... so one hour difference... :wink2:

The way I understand it - WC and WCX are GRCA test titles.

JH/SH/MH are AKC test titles.

So there might be equivalence between WC and JH as starting titles. They both are geared towards a green dog.

Regarding getting birds - you need to talk to field people where you live. And track down a field person to purchase birds from them. That's all. Check around the local golden clubs for field people and ask them.
 

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It's nowhere near the top of the list of silly or stupid things in Illinois!

If you eat at a seafood restaurant do you need a fishing license? ;)

FTR, no, that is silly
 

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In many states the birds used for hunting are pen raised, too. Not many wild pheasants left.

Not required in my state.
Frankly, it's not logical for states to require a hunting license at a trial/test (even for flyer shooters) because the birds used in trials are pen raised (i.e., via commercial operations), just like the chickens and turkeys conveniently found in the freezer section at your favorite grocery store.
FTGoldens
 

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Simply put, a bumper can test their training whereas a bird is more likely to test their instinct. As our field trainer likes to say, it's how you know "what came in the box".
From a breeding standpoint, I want to know what came in the box.

Thank you Megora. That response made sense and can totally understand the need for a hunter to know if a dog is willing to return a bird intact.... at the JH level.

Like I said I'm learning... the way WC/WCX was explained to me had very little to do with the bird but more about the ability to take direction, show self control and desire to retrieve. Memory skills for a double & in the case of WCX a triple. And the willingness to take to water and swim the distance vs running around the lake to the closest point of entry & swim the target back to hand.

Being an obedience person I sort of made the comparison of WC to the Novice level. This doesn't ask the dog to take a dumbbell or a jump, this comes at a higher level of training.

So while I understand the necessity of knowing bird skills for hunting, it still makes no sense that a bird be required to complete the exercises described for WC/WCX. But obviously it's strictly an opinion and not the way it is. I'm not trying to change the rules, just love the beautiful ducks! And it's really, really hard for people that don't hunt to find a bird to train with. You can go to multiple sites and order obedience or agility equipment. Why is it so hard to find a bird?
 
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