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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Quick rule check. Are you familiar with the rules?


1. You are not allowed to use a choke chain collar under any circumstances.
2. In Master, the dog must complete a clean triple, no handles.
3. The handler is permitted to line the dog to the gun stations upon arriving to the line.
4. Under what circumstances is the handler permitted to wear white (white camo)?
5. Birds must be hung on a bird dryer behind the judges.




Please take a look and respond.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Sorry, I should have specified AKC hunt tests. I am not really familiar with HRC or NAHRA.
 

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Good review this time of year!

1. Only junior gets to use a collar, and it has to be a flat buckle collar.
2. Senior is a double, not a triple. You can handle, so it doesn’t have to be clean.
3. No lining the dog to any gunner station. Unlike field trials, where you can line the dog to each gunner station.
4. Dark or customary hunting attire, I’m not sure how white camo would work into that scenario?
5. I don’t remember anything about hanging birds from a dryer.

I’m apprenticing judging senior this summer and judging one senior test this summer. I’ve judged a lot of junior tests. It will be nice to judge something different.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you, I should have said clean triple in MH. Not giving my answers yet. Again, loaded question. And you are a ringer, you judge!:grin2:
 

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#4 is kind of obscure for most people so I'll start with that one.

White or white cammo is permissible when the hunting scenario is a Snow Goose Hunt. You would also likely see a field full of white decoys as well. This differs from a Field Trial as everyone is wearing white not just the handler and gunners. If you aren't entering a test occurring through the center of the country, you probably won't ever see this scenario.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
#4 is kind of obscure for most people so I'll start with that one.

White or white cammo is permissible when the hunting scenario is a Snow Goose Hunt. You would also likely see a field full of white decoys as well. This differs from a Field Trial as everyone is wearing white not just the handler and gunners. If you aren't entering a test occurring through the center of the country, you probably won't ever see this scenario.

Thank you, that is when it is appropriate.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
"5. Birds must be hung on a bird dryer behind the judges."


You can learn a lot by reading the rule book. Thought you might find this interesting. What happens at your hunt tests? Under GUIDELINES PART IV, Section 9:


9. Be sure that birds are not left lying around the line. Marshals should keep them out of sight in bags or other containers.







 

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the party's crashing us
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I'm filling this out before reading past George's first post. Let's see how I do...

Quick rule check. Are you familiar with the rules?


1. You are not allowed to use a choke chain collar under any circumstances.
False. You can use a choke chain in Senior or Master, and in the holding blind(s) at Junior. You cannot bring a dog to the line in Junior on a choke chain.

2. In Master, the dog must complete a clean triple, no handles.
It does not say this in the rulebook.

3. The handler is permitted to line the dog to the gun stations upon arriving to the line.
Nope, no pointing out guns

4. Under what circumstances is the handler permitted to wear white (white camo)?
Appropriate hunting attire might be white if it is snowing and you're hunting "snow geese." Judges' discretion.

5. Birds must be hung on a bird dryer behind the judges.
No. Use of a bird hanger is not required.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well pretty good Anney. And you probably have guessed at why I brought these rules up.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Time for discussion.


1. You are not allowed to use a choke chain collar under any circumstances.


I was walking Buffy through the holding blinds on a choke chain. A handler looks at me and says that is not allowed. I said it sure is but she chose to debate this with me. I get to the last holding blind, remove it before stepping out of the blind, run the dog. I then ask the judge is this allowed. Answer is "Oh no, you do that at the Master National and you get thrown out." Admittedly I do not know what the rules are at the Master National but I wasn't at the Master National. I got angry, went home and e mailed Jerry Mann, got his reply, printed it out and now keep a copy of it in my car. Since that time I have heard several judges and marshals say the same thing---not allowed. Don't want to judge bash but I think something as basic as this should not be in question, we do go to similar judges' seminars by the same people.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
2. In Master, the dog must complete a clean triple, no handles.


This might be what the judges want to see but it seems to me that it is not required. The triple gets judged, you don't like it, score it as you see it. But the real point is just because something is becoming fashionable (clean triple) it doesn't mean it is in the rules. Seems to me stuff like this tends to be regional.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
3. The handler is permitted to line the dog to the gun stations upon arriving to the line.


A judge says he always does this, insists it is allowed. Again, not judge bashing, just showing a need to be familiar with the rules.



Here is the rule from Chapter 4:

Section 6. In marking situations, a handler shall not line a dog in the direction of any fall or gun station until all falls are down.



 

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Discussion Starter #17
4. Under what circumstances is the handler permitted to wear white (white camo)?


I am always learning. I had this discussion with someone who told me that there is a handler who always shows up with snow camo. I couldn't imagine somebody doing this. This person told me that he is waiting to judge this person. Of course it is appropriate in a snow goose rig but not every set up. Well, again, I had never thought about this, but glad we talked about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
5. Birds must be hung on a bird dryer behind the judges.


The rule that addresses this surprised me. You know what happens at hunt tests, bird dryer/hanger is placed where convenient. (One judge placed it purposely to be a distraction.) But this raises the question, how should the birds be stored?



From the rule book, Guidelines, Part IV, Section 9:


9. Be sure that birds are not left lying around the line. Marshals should keep them out of sight in bags or other containers.



 

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Discussion Starter #19
Surprised at the above guideline? I had a debate about this one with a friend last night. He didn't know it either.
 

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It does amaze me how many people sign up to judge and not only are they not familiar with the rules, but they can't even get the SPIRIT of the rules correct.
The only one I didn't know the specific verbiage on was about the bird hanger/container, which makes sense. I've seen junior judges put the bird hanger next to the dog to "prevent cheating." First off, using tactics like placing woodpiles or other cover immediately down the shore in Junior water to "discourage cheating" gets you two things...a dog who cheats on the way back can't figure out their way around it, or a dog tries so hard to cheat they run the wrong way around the obstacle and get REALLY lost. No dog was ever discouraged from cheating by a well placed branch. IT'S JUST STUPID. To use a BIRD HANGER for that purpose is even MORE STUPID.

It's unbelievable how much mental energy is wasted on freakin CHOKE CHAINS in hunt test discussions. Why AKC cares if a Junior dog wears a choke chain I will never know. In every other venue, dogs in the most basic classes can wear choke chains. It's a very simple rule with a very simple concept and every hunt test the Junior judges have to spend ten minutes going over the rule and half the time they get it WRONG!
 
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