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Ivan
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
Apreciate any deirection, hint, experience or advice.

- Owner of 9 yrs old Golden Retriever
- diagnosis of local vet is boreliosis and anaplasmosis
- were on antiobitc therapy for three months
- future prediction of the local vet that now
during signs of joint stiffness, muscle stiffness , get tired after 30 minutes of
walking ( starting to walk slowly and in small steps )
is because of anaplasmosis.

We suppose to expect 6 moths of waiting for anaplasmosis to releive in such condition.


Now we're giving him dog kibble food enriched wit probiotics twice a day.
At morning meal adding the sunflower young greenies, fresh parsley and ground chia seeds, broccoli sprouts to morning meal.

Two hours after evening meal giving him freshly juiced barley grass


Is there any way to approach with more certainty treatments whether alternative ( like homepopathic or any other ) whether official.
What basic diet and aditional supplements would be optimal for protecting kidneys and liver during this six months period ?

Is there any other way to releive the joints pains and stiffness?
 

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First off, hi, and welcome.
There are things you can give your dog for the joints, pain and liver, but I am not sure that you have all of those medications in Slovenia.
For the joints, supplements with glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM support the lubrication of the joints, a brand here in the states is Cosequin DS plus MSM, especially made for dogs but there are also human supplements available but you have to make sure there are no added ingredients which could be harmful to dogs. That is why I stick with made for dogs meds.
Another good supplement to add is fish oil. Here you can get is in capsules or in liquid, can use the human version or especially made for dogs. The human fish oil pills do work well on dogs, if not any added other vitamins or such included in the fish oil.
Then there are injections called Adequan, they also help with lubricating the joints.
For pain there are non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like Metacam, Rimadyl, Deramax etc. But, your dog's liver has to be in good working order for those.
To protect the liver we have liver enzyme supplements like Denamarin which contains milk thistle and SAMe. My senior dogs are on that, as well as the above listed joint supplements, fish oil etc..
You might have to google all those items to see if you have all these available in your country or somewhere in Europe, you can order it from.

I take it that your dog was on Doxycycline for all those 3 months?

My golden tested positive for Ehrlichia this summer, which is also a tick borne disease but he did not have any symptoms and he was on three weeks of Doxycycline. We caught it early. But my Golden already had arthritis issues, not realted to Ehrlichia.

Anyway, good luck to your boy. I am sure there will be other people chiming in with advise.
 

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Ivan
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Discussion Starter #3
Hello Christa,

Grateful for your answer.
Let me first check what I can get and what is available and then get back.
So most important is to get following items:
First off, hi, and welcome.
There are things you can give your dog for the joints, pain and liver, but I am not sure that you have all of those medications in Slovenia.

  • For the joints, supplements with
  • glucosamine,
  • chondroitin and
  • MSM support the lubrication of the joints,
  • a brand here in the states is Cosequin DS plus MSM, especially made for dogs but there are also human supplements available but you have to make sure there are no added ingredients which could be harmful to dogs. That is why I stick with made for dogs meds.

  • Another good supplement to add is fish oil. Here you can get is in capsules or in liquid, can use the human version or especially made for dogs. The human fish oil pills do work well on dogs, if not any added other vitamins or such included in the fish oil.

  • Then there are injections called Adequan, they also help with lubricating the joints.

  • For pain there are non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like Metacam, Rimadyl, Deramax etc. But, your dog's liver has to be in good working order for those.

  • To protect the liver we have liver enzyme supplements like Denamarin which contains milk thistle and SAMe. My senior dogs are on that, as well as the above listed joint supplements, fish oil etc..


You might have to google all those items to see if you have all these available in your country or somewhere in Europe, you can order it from.


  • I take it that your dog was on Doxycycline for all those 3 months?

My golden tested positive for Ehrlichia this summer, which is also a tick borne disease but he did not have any symptoms and he was on three weeks of Doxycycline. We caught it early. But my Golden already had arthritis issues, not realted to Ehrlichia.

Anyway, good luck to your boy. I am sure there will be other people chiming in with advise.
 

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Highlighted items? Yes, that is correct.
I am assuming all the joint issues your dog has, are signs of arthritis setting in which can happen with the tick borne diseases. All above supplements are for protection and lubrication of the joints and of course Denamarin for the liver.

The previously mentioned "Doxycycline" is an antibiotic that is given for tick borne diseases here in the states. I assume that that is what your dog had to take for the past 3 months?

Another thought, if your dog is very painful, but cannot take the non-steroidal anti-inflammatories such as Rimadyl, Metacam and so on because of liver issues, you could ask your vet about "Tramadol". It is not so hard on the liver/kidneys and could give your dog some needed pain relief.

Good luck!
 

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On the tick list (instructions on how to subscribe at the first link here): Tick Links it is recommended that you treat aggressively, at 10 mg/kg twice a day for 8 weeks, to help prevent recurrence. It's possible that your dog was under treated, which is usually what happens here in the U.S. When they are not treated aggressively enough, after some time, it turns out they will have a chronic form.

It's important to monitor blood counts, and also liver and kidney values. Liver support is very important. Here, this is a favorite product for liver, and some kidney support, but you will have to look around and see what type of liver support you have available to you: Country Life Liver Support Factors -- 100 Tablets - Vitacost And yes, joint supplements, glucosamine and chondroitin.

Lyme is chronic. When antibiotics kills the lyme spirochete, it can change into a cyst form, and when antibiotics are stopped, it can then change back, which makes getting rid of Lyme difficult. Anaplasmosis can also be chronic, depends on when in the disease process that you got it.

For Lyme, there are some herbals that folks on the tick list have used, Samento, Banderol, Cumanda, Teasel Root, but there is no definite protocol or dosing.
 

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Ivan
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Discussion Starter #6
Lymme boreliosis and anaplasmosis at the same time

Hello friends,

Thank you from bottom of my heart for your support and encouragements.

I did not dare to give you answer before I did some steps and organize on new situations.
So after the vet-s antibiotic therapy there are strong sympto Ericaceaepoms of arthritis on front legs.

For liver support we are giving him Glicopan drops.
In the food enriched with probiotics adding parsley and broccoli sprouts.
In the evening two hours after the evening meal, giving him through injecting to his mouth, fresh barley juice, juiced from the barley grown on balcony.
This will be possible while the weather is allowing to grow on balcony ( winter time ).

Just ordered Samento drops and MSM.
So in next days we'll have to organize how to orchestrate all these remedies in synergy but not to be opponent to each other?

So please any direction or warnings are most apreciated about the orchestrated dosage.


I also heard for some plant called Boswellia that was clinically tested on dog's on human's behalf. Any opinion , experience or warning on side effects.

Grateful for your help,
Blessings and love to our dog's souls friends,
 

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Ivan
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Discussion Starter #7
Hello,
After a while reporting the efforts for improve the 9 yrs Golden Retriver status:
In october after few weeks antibiotic Vets prescribed therapy with antibiotics ( doxyciline ) and his invitation to come after six month on the test controle for the blood and liver test for boreliosis and anaplasmosis infection we did the following:

1. October
1.1 dietary food with probiotic enrichments ( morning ) and haptic support evening
1.2 Glicopan for liver support
1.3 few times a week fresh green juice one small whiskey glass

Indications:
- slow movements of legs, joints in front legs , cracking when massaging his front legs
- one time completely not able to walk for whole day
- chondritin+glucozamin

2. November and December
2.1 stop giving him glicopan
2.2 start to give him Samento drops , sometimes mixed with barley juice
small whiskey glass 10 to 15 drops to whiskey glass
one day with water twice a day, another day with barley juice once per day.
2.3 dietetic food: probiotic and hepatic ( two different one for morning, another for early evening )
2.4 through the day goji berries as supplement during walk
2.5 some product that comprises MSM+chondritin+glucozamin+ester Vitamin C
sometimes replaced with pure MSM tablet.
2.6 giving salmon's oil few times per week

Indications:
- slowly walk
- 2 times in these twoo months when at morning he could not walk at all
- very rarely when he could walk very souvereign
- few times excreeted feaces that is very slimmy ( is this because of
MSM or salmon's oil ? )
- enjoy massaging of the legs - artritic symptoms are not diminishing?


Homeopatic experts are providing information that with homeopathic treatment could benefit in much beter status than with antibiotic and home natural remedies?


Thank you all for Any information or hint or reference and experience.
Blessings and happyness with your customers and your pets,
 

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Doxycycline at 10mg/k6 for four to six weeks should make a huge difference. We have struggled with anaplasmosis, and the inclusion matter in the white blood cells is telltale.
 

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I am sorry if your boy has not shown any marked improvement and that the Doxycycline has not helped so far. But, tick borne diseases can cause arthritis and given that your dog is 9 years old, arthritis also tends to set in in older dogs.

I suppose the salmon oil could make him have more of a soft bowl movement. Make sure you give all meds with food, should cut down on stomach issues.

Great that you are massaging his legs and I bet he enjoys it:)

Has he been on any pain meds for his arthritis? If not, that would be a place to start to give him more comfort and be more willing to walk. When he does not walk, his joints will be stiffer and his muscles will atrophy, lose muscle mass and make it even harder for him to walk.

I really don't know what is available in your country as in dog rehability facilities. Here we have acupuncture, cold laser treatments, underwater treadmills, bone marrow therapy and so on.

Good luck to your boy and you and Merry Christmas.
 

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Dog Lover
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Ivan

Ivan

Have no input, but I will be praying for your dog and you.
 

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Ivan
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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you all for your prayers and whishes. I am sure your energy will contribute.
Just one question. I was just reading about curcumin ( curcuma plant ) as being very beneficial in anti-inflammatory processes. Also used at the dogs ( but not in arthritic symptoms ) but in cancer preventing symptoms. I wonder if anybody of you have experience in curcumin treatment. According to readings it could be added to regular food ( possibly probiotic enriched because of possible constipations side effects ) but your experiences are valuable to me. The resseller at which I ordered Samento droplets ticnture is also selling Curcumin tincture. So I wonder what would be the optimum for use as daily supplements perhaps as exchanging with Samento tincture used synergy effect of combination? My questions is if the Herxheimer or die-off effect when Samento or antibiotic is initiating process of mass bacteria strains to be killed this amounts of necrotized cells are then washed from the internal organs to the only safest place for toxins and rest of bacteria JOINTS. So it is like some hiding last hiding place. This information is valuable to me so that I can know if I am ont the right paht when there is stronger arthritic attack maybe this is not catastrophe but goldie's body is just cleaning and we should consider better way to wash the joints from the internal. What I am wondering now is there any way beside the methods you mentioned: acupuncture, radiation bone marrow therapy to cleanse the internal space between joints tissues and cells that are responsbile for regenerating the joints? Guess the body is capable of own regeneration but how to help him?
 

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My Samantha had clinical Lyme disease at 1.5 years and clinical anaplasmosis at 7.5 years. Both times,she rapidly responded to doxycycline. She is 10.5 years now, and perfectly sound... Maybe looking further into other causes of polyarthropathies?
 

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I was not talking about radiation bone marrow therapy.
There is another bone marrow therapy but I don't really know what it involves, my surgeon who performed my Golden's orthopedic surgeries suggested it. I will have to do some research on that.
Anyway, I know nothing about curcumin, so I cannot help you with that.
Pain meds, I was talking non-steroidal anti-inflammatories such as Rimadyl, Metacam to give your golden some relief.
I know nothing about herbal therapies or homeopathic remedies.
There are also Adequan injections, which help lubricate the joints, it is like the glucosamine/chondroitin supplement but injectable with faster results.

I hope your vet will be able to get to the bottom of your dog's problems and finally be able to help him, good luck and Merry Christmas.
 

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Ivan, I am so sorry, I wrote the wrong thing. I did not mean bone marrow therapy I ment 'stem cell' therapy. My mind was elsewhere.
The surgeon was talking about stem cell therapy for my dog with arthritis.
So sorry!
 

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We looked into stem cell therapy for a client's dog... I believe up here, Tufts would do it, but it was extremely expensive.
 

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Yes, that is what I heard also and a bit invasive from what the surgeon said.

He was mentioning another procedure, not as costly and it involved drawing blood, spinning it down and taking parts of it and injecting it into the affected joints. I cannot remember what he called it and which part of the blood is re-injected.
 

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Ivan
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Discussion Starter #17
Hello everybody,

Grateful for your support. Blessings for all your familly members and neighbours and certainly for your
goldies. My frined goldie Tim is doing better. But it seems he has problems with mobiltiy in waves. Today we made first longer hike into the forest. To me this was revelation because we were such a goodd team on hiking to mountains and really miss him with me. But today I felt so great while picking stinging nettle and hike for the first time in the forest.
So what is the issue now how to improve his status with up and downs and arthritic waves. Seems there are periods when I can feel cracking in his front legs while massaging him and his slowly walking. But there are days his energy is like in old times. Just feeling have a lot of reserves for imrproving his status. So what is the deal now:
1. He receives regularly each day ( twice per day droplets of Samento ) exchanging with Banderol droplets ( one month first sort, second month another one )
2. Receives dog pills that contains MSM+vitamin C + glucosamin + chondirtin

Now we are the point where decision has to be made for make next step or just stagnate in current
status that is very unstable and afraid if stagnation could return to worsening.
Received several suggestion to make some change and next level of improving or making better:

Please your help is most valuable:
1. Royal Jelly ...
I was told that bee's fresh royal jelly could enrich his body immune system
Is that true, I have no experience with royal jelly for dogs.
Me personally was intaking years ago but only as recovery as ultramarathon and
once when I was agraid to got sick for tick borne viral meningitis ...And at that time
helped me. So this time wondering about dog's support for royal jelly...

2. One lady here in my region told me she got advanced with her pet dog with cellfood product protocol
starting with oxygenaton....


3. I was adviced curcumiin( turmeric ) for joint inflammation
but i am not familiar with side effects specially on liver


what were your steps after first step of recovery?
 

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Welcome back, I am glad that your dog is not really worse off.
Are you still giving the salmon oil? That is something that can be given daily.
I am not familiar with the effects of turmeric and by Royal Jelly, are you speaking of honey?
In your earlier posts, there were recommendations for dosing the Doxycycline, did you ever figure out if you got this particular antibiotic and at the correct dose?

I have had major arthritis issues with my Toby, not tick disease related though. I had pursued laser therapy and wanted to try acupuncture. Sadly, Toby got worse, was diagnosed with cancer which explained his getting weaker and passed away 8 weeks ago. :( We never got to try acupuncture.

Have you checked into any treatments that might help like the cold laser therapy, acupuncture?
Do you have any possibilities of letting your dog swim? That would help with muscle mass building without being a strain on the joints.

Anyway, good luck, keep us posted.
 

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Ivan
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Discussion Starter #19
Dear Christa,

Very sorry for Toby.
I can not imagine the pain when you loose soul mate in dog. I am sure he fuflilled and someway still fulifilling your live and lives of your familly mambers ad neighbours. Whish you to overcome the pain and resides in your best dreams as guide and happy his soul was on common train with your Life.

Let me once more go through your check List.
First of all to get the information from the VET what antibotic he was given at the first therapy.
Acupuncture guess it is good idea. But got to check in my region if anyone is offering this service for the pets.
 

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Ivan
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Discussion Starter #20
Royal jelly is not ordinary bee honey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_jelly.
But it is made strictly by bee workers for bee queen and baby bees. It does not have so much sugar and more enrich with amino-acids ...The problem is that in my region now is the season possible to get fresh royall jelly that is more bioactive than liofilized or other conserved forms. And this season will last only to the start of the summer. So need to quickly react if this is potential for even smaller releif and benefit.

For human ( I tested on me for inflammations after longterm physical extreme efforts and also in boreliosis case at human is helpfull ) it is very helpfull for inflammation and cells recovery specially for immune system. When considering dogs it is just need to know if there are any possible side toxic effects. Guess not but it would be good to be sure. And another one...which is little more difficult.
At the human it is much more helpfull if it is dosed under the tongue and be left there for a minute because this way it is directly absorbed to lymph and blood. How to proceed this with Goldie? No chance? But guess if this could be helpfull than any way is good for absorption than not to dose him.
 
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