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Discussion Starter #1
I want to do the best for my 10 week pup as far as feeding, but admittedly I don't have the time or patience for the raw food diet.

Second to that, I would like to find a high quality kibble. I don't want to encourage fast growth because I have read that this 'could' be linked to future joint problems. So would I be looking for something that is lower in protein thenk? Or higher in protein, lower in calories?

Or, to make it even simpler --- what would be a good choice?

The breeder recommended Purina One for large breed puppies and this is what I have been giving him. However, if there is something better/healthier out there, I would be more than willing to switch.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Kris
 

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Retired bum..........
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I want to do the best for my 10 week pup as far as feeding, but admittedly I don't have the time or patience for the raw food diet.

Second to that, I would like to find a high quality kibble. I don't want to encourage fast growth because I have read that this 'could' be linked to future joint problems. So would I be looking for something that is lower in protein thenk? Or higher in protein, lower in calories?

Or, to make it even simpler --- what would be a good choice?

The breeder recommended Purina One for large breed puppies and this is what I have been giving him. However, if there is something better/healthier out there, I would be more than willing to switch.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Kris
What is better/healthier is always open for debate. Below is link to one of many on the topic. This one is not necessarily related just to puppy food but it will give you some ideas. Having said that, I would probably listen to your breeder. Good luck!

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=65706&highlight=puppy+food
 

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Honestly, if your puppy is doing fine on the Purina One, I see no reason at all to change. Does you puppy have firm stools, plenty of energy, clean ears, and a healthy looking and feeling coat without any skin problems? If so, I would keep feeding what you are feeding. A lot of people go through a huge trial and error process while trying to find a food that their dog does well on. There is no such thing as the "perfect" dog food since every dog is different. What may be the perfect food for one dog may not be the perfect food for another dog. One good example is that our Tucker has a corn allergy and gets ear infections if he eats any food that has corn, so we have him on California Natural now and he is doing beautifully. Our GSD, on the other hand, eats Pro Plan and does great on it, which is one of the foods that Tucker had problems with. It really is true that no two dogs are the same when it comes to nutrition.

For what it's worth, a lot of people on here feed Purina One with great success.
 

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From someone who felt the same way you did and stupidly switched her puppy from a food that worked (Eukanuba) to a food /I/ wanted her to eat (Solid Gold, then Blue Buffalo), which consequently resulted in MONTHS of diarrhea problems and nasty messes, I would highly recommend sticking to what works. If you want to switch, wait until your pup is older and has a more "stable" tummy.
 

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Honestly, for a 10 week old Pup I think you should be feeding what the Breeder or Vet recommend. My Breeder sent us home with Purina Pro Plan for large breed. Ike was on that food for his first year. Some breeders/Vets/ recommend switching to an adult food sooner, so talk to your Vet about the what's and the when's for your pup.
 

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& Romeo's mom
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I want to do the best for my 10 week pup as far as feeding, but admittedly I don't have the time or patience for the raw food diet.

Second to that, I would like to find a high quality kibble. I don't want to encourage fast growth because I have read that this 'could' be linked to future joint problems. So would I be looking for something that is lower in protein thenk? Or higher in protein, lower in calories?

Or, to make it even simpler --- what would be a good choice?

The breeder recommended Purina One for large breed puppies and this is what I have been giving him. However, if there is something better/healthier out there, I would be more than willing to switch.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Kris
If it works for you, stay with it. I fed mine Purina One as a puppy and had no problems with it, and he loved it. I don't think there's a thing wrong with it.
 
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I agree with the above comments. If your puppy is doing well on what he is currently eating, why change? If YOU want to change, it is easier on his system to do later on.
However, if you see a reason why you might want to get him off of what the breeder recommended to another food sooner (loose stools, vomitting, skin problems, ear infections), then you need to do your research. There are many good kibble alternatives to raw. Check many archives on this site.
 

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My dogs had horrible gas on Purina One. That is the main reason I switched them. I went through a lot of trial and error and ended up with California Natural. Now I feed a comparable food to California Natural, ingredient, fat and protein and calorie wise that happens to be delivered to my home.
 

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Having tried a premium food with our puppy and getting less than optimal results, I would also say if you are having no problems currently, then stick with the Purina.

You can still do a slow growth program, regardless of the food you are using. For slow growth you simply want your puppy to gain about 1 1/2 pounds per week through the first 16-20 weeks. You do this by adjusting the amount fed. For us 1/2 cup of kibble 3 times per day (1 1/2 cups total per day) worked well. Your mileage may vary, so you would simply adjust food amounts to get as close to 1 1/2 lbs. of gain per week as you can.

Here is some more information for you on slow growth:

http://www.jrsgoldenangels.com/slowgrow.html
 

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IMHO, one of the advantages of purchasing a puppy from a breeder is that you get that breeder's advice and guidance--kinda like purchasing a lap top and having customer care 24/7. Your breeder has recommended a food that your puppy is doing well on--I'm sure if your breeder is like mine, this person explained why they are recommending a certain kibble. If you don't know, why not ask your breeder why this particular food was recommended? It may be one that has worked well for your breeder's pups and adult goldens for several years.

If it's not broke, don't fix it. My thoughts.
 

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I believe it's best to control growth by calories fed; not by skimping on protein. Protein and fat are critical sources for development of puppies. Many publications have listed a minimum protein of 25% for puppies.

There are many good foods for puppies. My personal preference is to find formulas with named meat sources as the primary source of protein. I also avoid formulas with glutens, wheat and "animal fat" (prefer to know the source of fat and to keep it consistent for my dog).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes, he is doing ok on the Purina One, but reading about the high rate of cancer with Goldens as well as the hip problems, I was thinking that maybe a certain quality of food would help avoid these problems? I think anti-oxidants help avoid tumors, and who knows what else.

I also think that dogs really don't need grains and maybe the cheaper dog kibble might have more percentage of grains as opposed to meat.

So anyway, this is my line of thinking --- good quality food = healthy dog! I'm not sure where Purina falls along the lines of quality food.

Kris
 

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Yes, he is doing ok on the Purina One, but reading about the high rate of cancer with Goldens as well as the hip problems, I was thinking that maybe a certain quality of food would help avoid these problems? I think anti-oxidants help avoid tumors, and who knows what else.

I also think that dogs really don't need grains and maybe the cheaper dog kibble might have more percentage of grains as opposed to meat.

So anyway, this is my line of thinking --- good quality food = healthy dog! I'm not sure where Purina falls along the lines of quality food.

Kris
Purina One is at the low end of the mid-grade foods. It's not the best food you can buy and it's not the worst. If it works for your pup, there's really no pressing need to change.

In my experience, food related orthopedic problems involve growing too fast. The large breed puppy formulas help keep puppies lean as they grow. (Some achieve a similar result by feeding adult formulas and carefully managing the food intake as the pup grows.)

Having some grains in a food is a good thing for most normal healthy dogs. There is zero evidence to demonstrate that carbs from other sources like fruits or vegetables are somehow better than those supplied from grains.

So, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 

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Having some grains in a food is a good thing for most normal healthy dogs. There is zero evidence to demonstrate that carbs from other sources like fruits or vegetables are somehow better than those supplied from grains.

So, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
actually from a lot of reading I have been doing lately there is lots of evidence that cereal grains in foods are nothing more than fillers and empty calories that can't be used by the dogs and are only used to reduce the price of foods. Also from my readings I am getting the impression that elevated Ca and phosphorus levels are what is responsible for the joint problems not necessarily the protein levels, but the problem in lower quality foods is that they way they get the higher protein causes high Ca and phosphorus levels as they use a lot of ground up bones (meal products) instead of meat.

there is actually a really good study on food evolution from the early 1900's showing the different things in food and when and why they were added. I'll see if I can find it again and link it.

here is just one thing about Ca
"
Calcium
The absolute level of calcium in the diet, rather than an imbalance in the calcium/phosphorus ratio, influences skeletal development.2 Young, giant-breed dogs fed a food containing excess calcium (3.3% dry matter basis) with either normal phosphorus(0.9% dry matter basis) or high phosphorus(3% dry matter basis, to maintain a normal calcium/phosphorus ratio) had significantly increased incidence of developmental bone disease.2 These puppies apparently were unable to protect themselves against the negative effects of chronic calcium excess.3 Further, chronic high calcium intake increased the frequency and severity of osteochondrosis.7

Often puppies are switched from growth to maintenance-type foods to avoid calcium excess and skeletal disease. However, because some maintenance foods have much lower energy density than growth foods, the puppy must consume more dry matter volume to meet its energy requirement. If the calcium levels are similar (dry matter basis) between the two foods, the puppy will actually consume more calcium when fed the maintenance food. This point is exemplified in the case of switching a 15-week-old, 15-kg male Rottweiler puppy from a growth food containing, on an as fed basis, 4.0 kcal/g metabolizable energy and 1.35% calcium (1.5% on a dry matter basis) to a maintenance food containing the same amount of calcium but at a lower, 3.2 kcal/g energy density. The puppy would require approximately 1,600 kcal/day. In order to meet this energy need the puppy would consume approximately 400g of the growth food (containing 5.4g of calcium) vs. 500g of the maintenance food (containing approximately 6.7g of calcium).

Feeding treats containing calcium and/or providing calcium supplements further increases daily calcium intake. Two level teaspoons of a typical calcium supplement (calcium carbonate) added to the growth food of the 15-week-old, 15-kg Rottweiler puppy would more than double its daily calcium intake. This calcium intake is well beyond the levels shown to increase the risk for developmental bone disease. A recent review article best sums up the need for calcium supplements: "Because virtually all dog foods contain more calcium than is needed to meet the requirement, the use of a calcium supplement certainly is unnecessary. Now that the deleterious effects of excess dietary calcium have been delineated, we can say that the feeding of calcium supplements not only is unnecessary, but, in fact, contraindicated!"8

Because these studies demonstrate the safety and adequacy of 1.1% calcium (dry matter basis) and the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) minimum recommendation is 1% (dry matter basis, Table 1), we recommend that calcium levels for a growth food be within this range for at risk puppies, with no supplementation. "


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #15
While I realize that he is doing well on the Purina One, along the lines of the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'; my thinking is more of the preventative. Yes, he is healthy and strong now, but is what he is growing on in the present going to turn out to be bad for him in the long run?

Kris
 

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actually from a lot of reading I have been doing lately there is lots of evidence that cereal grains in foods are nothing more than fillers and empty calories that can't be used by the dogs and are only used to reduce the price of foods.

Steve
While there is a small but VERY vocal minority that tries to push the "Grains are Filler" myth, they are none the less incorrect.

All it takes is a look at the poorest low quality foods (Ol Roy, Sprout, Tuffies, etc) that are virtually all grain with a little non-descript animal fat added. Millions of dogs eat these low end foods their entire lives and survive (some even thrive on the crap). Those millions of dogs are absorbing the nutrients to survive from the food they're being fed or else they would have long since starved to death, so the arguement that grains are "just empty filler" is obviously invalid.



The Calcium/Phosphous components in foods are important to developing puppies and are the basis for the Large Breed Puppy Formulas that many food manufacturers now offer.
 

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I did a lot of research on foods when we decided to get Kadence. Our 1st Golden had multiple health problems & I can't say whether they were hereditary or environmental or a mix of both. i knew this time I was going to try my best to do the best I could. For me that was a lot of breeder, food & product research.
For food I wanted one who has had little to no recalls. Quality ingredients & good nutrients.
I have a lot of faith in my breeder, but I didn't agree with her food choice. And I had little faith in my vet as far as food, because many of them are still pushing things like science diet. I have been told more than once vets recommend food that they can get the best deals or "kickbacks" for. Now, they will not call it that, but it basically what it is. Kind of like the drug rep who hands your doctor a bunch of samples, they do it so the doctor will order their meds.
I personally decided on Fromm. They are family owned & manufacture their food in their own US plants. The food is human grade food.
MANY! dog food companies have their name on bags that are manufactured by the same manufacture some of the worst foods are manufactured by. This is info you can find online & can be confirmed. While they may be different "blends" for different companies, a lot of the ingredients are purchased from the same sources. That is why the recalls & deaths were widespread across different brands. The source of ingredients were the same.
While there are other foods I feel are equally as good a quality as what I chose, I am happy. I sent several emails to Fromm & never got a run around like I did from some other companies. I use less of it to get the same nutrition & cost isn't any more than some lesser quality foods.
While RAW may be the way to go, I didn't feel I had enough knowledge to feed RAW & be sure they were getting all they needed.
Be sure what ever you choose is a large breed puppy food. You do want the slow growth Sucker For Gold mentioned.
I also believe no one food is 100% the answer. Even though I feed a quality food, I still give other things now & then. An example I read was if you took a infant to a pediatrician that said, "here, feed this to the baby their whole life" & the food was 100% nutritionally sound & correct, you would probably still RUN at the thought of never giving your child other foods.
Sorry so long. I do have an excel spreadsheet with nutritional comparisons I did when I was looking if you are interested on some of the top brands & I can tell you why I ruled some out or considered them.
 

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Choosing a dog food can be very overwhelming these days. I personally don't trust companies whose rationale for thier formulas is "just look how good our ingredient list looks". I care much more about nutrients than ingredients. I could design a dog food that looks great on the ingredient panel but has difficiencies or excesses of various nutrients. And while organ meats, for example, may look gross to me, that doesnt mean they are not nutritious, and would probably look delicious to my dog. My vet recommends products like science diet because they have a longstanding history of clinical research and producing nutritionally balanced foods - not for "kickbacks".
 

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While there is a small but VERY vocal minority that tries to push the "Grains are Filler" myth, they are none the less incorrect.

All it takes is a look at the poorest low quality foods (Ol Roy, Sprout, Tuffies, etc) that are virtually all grain with a little non-descript animal fat added. Millions of dogs eat these low end foods their entire lives and survive (some even thrive on the crap). Those millions of dogs are absorbing the nutrients to survive from the food they're being fed or else they would have long since starved to death, so the arguement that grains are "just empty filler" is obviously invalid.



The Calcium/Phosphous components in foods are important to developing puppies and are the basis for the Large Breed Puppy Formulas that many food manufacturers now offer.
the small group you are talking about include the forfront of vets and other profesionals that specilize in dog nutrition.

yup dog live on crap food just like we can live on Mcdonnalds. Kinda hard to argue when wheat, corn and other grains have been showen to cause ear infections, skin iratations, ect due to alergic reactions. I am not saying you have to spend 80 bucks on a bag of food, there are several middle of the road grain free foods out there as low as 15 bucks for the same size bag. I just ended up chosing Origin regional read after a lot of reading and reviews. I figure a little more investd in food can help to save a lot of vet bills down the road.

it should also be noted that Ca and Phosphous in excess are bad, and they have to be in the right ratio or they can do more bad than good.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I figure a little more investd in food can help to save a lot of vet bills down the road.


Steve
Exactly my thinking which is what inspired the question I first brought up:

what puppy food is best for my pup? just like if I had an infant, I could feed it discount formula and it would still be alive and still grow, but there are healthier options out there and this is what I'm looking for only pertaining to my dog!

Kris
 
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