Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

Help with choosing a litter

946 Views 17 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  lilypad96
Hi friends - we have been searching for a puppy for a little over a year and I think we've narrowed it down to two really wonderful breeders. We are lucky enough to potentially have the opportunity to be added to the list for two great litters, but are finding it really, really difficult to choose. I have listed details below and would so appreciate anyone's feedback. Happy to provide other details as well but thought this would be a good place to start. Thank you so much :)

Litter #1
Nevani Goldens
NAVIGATOR'S MISTER BIG STUFF, GCH, CH
BRYERIDGE GODDESS OF NEVANI

Litter #2
Beau Geste
BEAU GESTE OB-LA-DI OB-LA-DA
BEAU GESTE JOHNNY RIVERS' GRACEST HIT
See less
Hi friends - we have been searching for a puppy for a little over a year and I think we've narrowed it down to two really wonderful breeders. We are lucky enough to potentially have the opportunity to be added to the list for two great litters, but are finding it really, really difficult to choose. I have listed details below and would so appreciate anyone's feedback. Happy to provide other details as well but thought this would be a good place to start. Thank you so much :)

Litter...
See more
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
In my opinion briefly looking at these pedigrees, I would think the second is a safer choice.

These are pretty different pedigrees, Beau Geste is a lot of English dogs, so its a little harder to trace the health testing, but I recognize a lot of dogs in the 5gen as being in several English pedigrees of dogs I am familiar with. The Nevani program is much more "American" style, however, there is some missing health testing in the pedigree. The dam herself is missing up to date eyes on OFA (breeder may have them), but several dogs in the pedigree appear to have failed orthopedics, including two grandparents.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
In my opinion briefly looking at these pedigrees, I would think the second is a safer choice.

These are pretty different pedigrees, Beau Geste is a lot of English dogs, so its a little harder to trace the health testing, but I recognize a lot of dogs in the 5gen as being in several English pedigrees of dogs I am familiar with. The Nevani program is much more "American" style, however, there is some missing health testing in the pedigree. The dam herself is missing up to date eyes on OFA (breeder may have them), but several dogs in the pedigree appear to have failed orthopedics, including two grandparents.
Thank you for the information! May I ask how you can tell that one is American and the other is English? Would you say there is a benefit of one over the other?
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
Thank you for the information! May I ask how you can tell that one is American and the other is English? Would you say there is a benefit of one over the other?
I think the preference is all personal. Some people prefer the American style pedigrees and some people prefer the English style pedigrees. Note: NOT “English Cream”.

I do not think one is better over the other if everything else is equal.

If you look at the second litter’s pedigrees you’ll see a lot of English dogs, Dutch, Canadian dogs. Some American dogs scattered throughout.

Whereas the first litter’s pedigree is very typical for an American show Golden
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
2,770 Posts
FWIW I’m a fan of Jan Bramhall’s (Beau Geste) breeding program, mostly because she has some of the best longevity and lowest cancer rates of all the breeders I have researched in New England. My first dog Molly (1993) was sired by one of her dogs (Sunnybrae Beau Geste Pollux) and was so far the longest lived of my dogs (13.5). My current dog, Castor, is also a Pollux son (via frozen semen), and the puppy I just bought is a grandson of Pollux. Jan is a very experienced and respected breeder and I think you will be happy with any of her dogs.

I’m not familiar with the Navani breeding program. She looks like an ethical breeder, but taking a look at the vertical pedigrees for the dam and sire, I’m seeing more cancer deaths (and young deaths for other reasons) than I’d personally be comfortable with, though it’s probably comparable to most pedigrees/breeding programs in New England, and my standards are very high. 😉

Just my two cents… others may feel differently or see something I don’t.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
FWIW I’m a fan of Jan Bramhall’s (Beau Geste) breeding program, mostly because she has some of the best longevity and lowest cancer rates of all the breeders I have researched in New England. My first dog Molly (1993) was sired by one of her dogs (Sunnybrae Beau Geste Pollux) and was so far the longest lived of my dogs (13.5). My current dog, Castor, is also a Pollux son (via frozen semen), and the puppy I just bought is a grandson of Pollux. Jan is a very experienced and respected breeder and I think you will be happy with any of her dogs.

I’m not familiar with the Navani breeding program. She looks like an ethical breeder, but taking a look at the vertical pedigrees for the dam and sire, I’m seeing more cancer deaths (and young deaths for other reasons) than I’d personally be comfortable with, though it’s probably comparable to most pedigrees/breeding programs in New England, and my standards are very high. 😉

Just my two cents… others may feel differently or see something I don’t.
Thank you! I will say that based on the research we've done, the Beau Geste litter is where we are leaning.

There is actually one additional litter that we have been looking into but haven't found much information on the breeder. Her name is Brandie Mitchell (Mitchell Hill - New Hampshire) and she says she works with Kim Lorraine at Kelore Kennels, in Cornish Maine.

Litter 3
Mitchell Hill // Kelore Kennels
GREATBROOK'S PENELOPE
KELORE TEQUILA LITTLE TIME WITH YOU

Would love to hear your thoughts on this once as well if you have a moment! I have heard good things about Kelore Kennels as well. Thank you!
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,225 Posts
I wouldn’t take a puppy from a litter where a grandparent on each side failed elbows, so I’d rule out Litter #1.

Litter #2 seems to be good with clearances. As noted, there are some European influences in the pedigree. Beau Geste is a longtime ethical breeder.

Litter #3 should be good with clearances, just ask for updated eyes on the dam. I’m not very familiar with Brandie, but it’s seems that she has had a handful of litters including a few with Kelore sires. Kim is a good breeder, so I think you’d be fine here also. As an aside, my dog’s sire is Miles’ sire.

Aside from style differences, determining which breeder you prefer communicating with is also important to consider.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I wouldn’t take a puppy from a litter where a grandparent on each side failed elbows, so I’d rule out Litter #1.

Litter #2 seems to be good with clearances. As noted, there are some European influences in the pedigree. Beau Geste is a longtime ethical breeder.

Litter #3 should be good with clearances, just ask for updated eyes on the dam. I’m not very familiar with Brandie, but it’s seems that she has had a handful of litters including a few with Kelore sires. Kim is a good breeder, so I think you’d be fine here also. As an aside, my dog’s sire is Miles’ sire.

Aside from style differences, determining which breeder you prefer communicating with is also important to consider.
Thank you! May I ask where you’re seeing that a grandparent on either side failed elbows? I tried looking again and didn’t see anything but maybe I don’t know what to look for!

Also may I ask where you were able to find that Brandie has had a few litters with Kelore? For whatever reason I can’t find any information about her or her breeding program.
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,225 Posts
Thank you! May I ask where you’re seeing that a grandparent on either side failed elbows? I tried looking again and didn’t see anything but maybe I don’t know what to look for!

Also may I ask where you were able to find that Brandie has had a few litters with Kelore? For whatever reason I can’t find any information about her or her breeding program.
Regarding litter #1 and elbows, you can see on OFA that the dam’s paternal granddam and the dam’s maternal grandsire are both missing elbows. Since hips and elbows are both done together, and they both have hip clearances, you can be pretty certain that the elbows failed.

Regarding the breeder of litter #3, I snooped around on Facebook and saw that Brandie has posted some litter photos. She currently has a litter sired by Mike and she previously had a litter sired by Bourbon, both of which are Kim’s dogs. I think she has had a few other litters as well. I couldn’t find a website or any other info about her, except for a few dogs in K9data over the past 5 or so years. You might want to ask Kim about her if you’re interested in this breeding.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Regarding litter #1 and elbows, you can see on OFA that the dam’s paternal granddam and the dam’s maternal grandsire are both missing elbows. Since hips and elbows are both done together, and they both have hip clearances, you can be pretty certain that the elbows failed.

Regarding the breeder of litter #3, I snooped around on Facebook and saw that Brandie has posted some litter photos. She currently has a litter sired by Mike and she previously had a litter sired by Bourbon, both of which are Kim’s dogs. I think she has had a few other litters as well. I couldn’t find a website or any other info about her, except for a few dogs in K9data over the past 5 or so years. You might want to ask Kim about her if you’re interested in this breeding.
Regarding elbows, thank you, I had no idea both tests were done together! So glad you told me.
Regarding Mitchell Hill, did you find her Facebook page? Yes, I believe she has photos posted of two litters she has currently. Miles & Penny is the younger litter which is the one we would be put on the list for. I agree I think it would be best if I reached out to Kim Lorraine for info.
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,225 Posts
Regarding elbows, thank you, I had no idea both tests were done together! So glad you told me.
Regarding Mitchell Hill, did you find her Facebook page? Yes, I believe she has photos posted of two litters she has currently. Miles & Penny is the younger litter which is the one we would be put on the list for. I agree I think it would be best if I reached out to Kim Lorraine for info.
There are photos on the “Mitchell Hill Goldens” FB page, and some on her personal (more on the MHG page).
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
There are photos on the “Mitchell Hill Goldens” FB page, and some on her personal (more on the MHG page).
@Matt - new here. Can you help direct me where to go in the Midwest? I've been "lurking" on the forum for 2 months and I'm overwhelmed! I am located in Minneapolis. My sister has a dog from Osprey Goldens in San Francisco. I spoke with Jan, her list is very long.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,181 Posts
@Matt - new here. Can you help direct me where to go in the Midwest? I've been "lurking" on the forum for 2 months and I'm overwhelmed! I am located in Minneapolis. My sister has a dog from Osprey Goldens in San Francisco. I spoke with Jan, her list is very long.
I assume you're looking for the conformation type?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
@Matt - new here. Can you help direct me where to go in the Midwest? I've been "lurking" on the forum for 2 months and I'm overwhelmed! I am located in Minneapolis. My sister has a dog from Osprey Goldens in San Francisco. I spoke with Jan, her list is very long.
How did you even find her?! I've been trying to contact osprey for at least a year!
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,225 Posts
@Matt - new here. Can you help direct me where to go in the Midwest? I've been "lurking" on the forum for 2 months and I'm overwhelmed! I am located in Minneapolis. My sister has a dog from Osprey Goldens in San Francisco. I spoke with Jan, her list is very long.
I would suggest starting your own thread so that others can chime in as well. I know of many Midwest breeders, but there are also a lot of members in the area that can help out.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
There are photos on the “Mitchell Hill Goldens” FB page, and some on her personal (more on the MHG page).
Just to update - I was able to speak with Kim Lorraine today and she confirmed everything with Brandie at Mitchell Hill and said she highly recommends her! So all seems to be good :)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
@Matt - new here. Can you help direct me where to go in the Midwest? I've been "lurking" on the forum for 2 months and I'm overwhelmed! I am located in Minneapolis. My sister has a dog from Osprey Goldens in San Francisco. I spoke with Jan, her list is very long.
If you're in the Minneapolis area you can look at Harvestime Kennel, the owner is Deb and she and her children are spread out in that area, Wisconsin and Montana.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top