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Discussion Starter #1
Hello folks,

Need help! I am planning to visit a puppy and need your thoughts on deciding is it a right choice
the Sire ID=827664 from K9DataInfo
Dam ID=937457 from K9DataInfo

The website doesn't allow me to post links and please take patience to search K9DataInfo by Ids

The origin of the dogs says ukraine..
 

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Robin
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Thanks! Prism. And I cannot find their info on ofc.org too. Hopefully someones out there!
Hi and welcome to the forum! I looked at the two dogs, and I do have some knowledge of European pedigrees, as that is primarily what I use in my breeding program. Tramin has produced some quality dogs, and is well-respected in Europe. The problem with sending those dogs here to be bred, is that they were raised and obtained their health clearances in Ukraine, and not re-done when they arrived here. So this means that they were done at one year of age (which is standard in Europe) instead of two years. And they are not easily verified in the US because they’re not in an online database we can access like OFA. So if you import a dog from Europe and plan to breed it, the responsible thing to do is to have the clearances done here so you’re in compliance with the GRCA code of ethics. So before going to see the puppies and falling in love with them, I would ask the breeder if she has taken these measures, and what her reasoning is if she has not.
 

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Robin
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Hi and welcome to the forum! I looked at the two dogs, and I do have some knowledge of European pedigrees, as that is primarily what I use in my breeding program. Tramin has produced some quality dogs, and is well-respected in Europe. The problem with sending those dogs here to be bred, is that they were raised and obtained their health clearances in Ukraine, and not re-done when they arrived here. So this means that they were done at one year of age (which is standard in Europe) instead of two years. And they are not easily verified in the US because they’re not in an online database we can access like OFA. So if you import a dog from Europe and plan to breed it, the responsible thing to do is to have the clearances done here so you’re in compliance with the GRCA code of ethics. So before going to see the puppies and falling in love with them, I would ask the breeder if she has taken these measures, and what her reasoning is if she has not.
Also, I just noticed that the dam of the litter will not be two years old until June of this year, so she’s too young to have been bred at this point anyway.
 

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Hi and welcome to the forum! I looked at the two dogs, and I do have some knowledge of European pedigrees, as that is primarily what I use in my breeding program. Tramin has produced some quality dogs, and is well-respected in Europe. The problem with sending those dogs here to be bred, is that they were raised and obtained their health clearances in Ukraine, and not re-done when they arrived here. So this means that they were done at one year of age (which is standard in Europe) instead of two years. And they are not easily verified in the US because they’re not in an online database we can access like OFA. So if you import a dog from Europe and plan to breed it, the responsible thing to do is to have the clearances done here so you’re in compliance with the GRCA code of ethics. So before going to see the puppies and falling in love with them, I would ask the breeder if she has taken these measures, and what her reasoning is if she has not.
Thanks HaliaGoldens, Really appreciate in taking time and giving the response.
I am not planning on breeding the puppy which I am gonna get. I will check with the breeder regarding the clearance as you mentioned. In the meanwhile as per your inspection of parents k9data what are your thoughts on their health conditions?
 

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Robin
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Thanks HaliaGoldens, Really appreciate in taking time and giving the response.
I am not planning on breeding the puppy which I am gonna get. I will check with the breeder regarding the clearance as you mentioned. In the meanwhile as per your inspection of parents k9data what are your thoughts on their health conditions?
I meant the breeder who has this sire and dam should have the clearances obtained here in the US. The health clearances we talk about are for the parents of a litter, not for the individual puppies the breeder is selling. So my point was that the parents of the puppy you are going to see don’t appear to have the proper clearances that are recommended here in this country. And the mother is only 1 year old, which is too young to breed according to the code of ethics of the GRCA.
 

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I meant the breeder who has this sire and dam should have the clearances obtained here in the US. The health clearances we talk about are for the parents of a litter, not for the individual puppies the breeder is selling. So my point was that the parents of the puppy you are going to see don’t appear to have the proper clearances that are recommended here in this country. And the mother is only 1 year old, which is too young to breed according to the code of ethics of the GRCA.
Hello Halia Goldens, we happen to meet the dealer who is only an hour drive away, here is the scenario: the father dog - Tramin Tal Vez is not residing with the breeders currently and he is off to some show in Europe and the breeders says he is sort of Intl' champion. So the dealer have no plans to register the father dog in USA and I guess the dog don't belong to the dealer. I did google Tramin Tal Vez and seems to be up to his reputation. we happen to meet the mother as well.. she is very calm, mellow and looked very strong. The litter had 8 dogs of which 5 are sold. Do you think it is a right choice to choose from the remaining 3? based on the parents, grandparents and health data available of K9. We have been looking for a couple of months and most of the breeders in NorthCal either sell their puppies before they are born and don't agree to see the puppies until 6 weeks or so( which is good), but personally I don't like to place a deposit hold on puppy that is never and born and get one to home at first sight
 

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The litter had 8 dogs of which 5 are sold. Do you think it is a right choice to choose from the remaining 3?
No. The mother is 18 months old and is not able to have clearances done per the USA standards. There are a lot of great breeders in NorCal, you could do a lot better than this litter.
 

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Robin
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Hello Halia Goldens, we happen to meet the dealer who is only an hour drive away, here is the scenario: the father dog - Tramin Tal Vez is not residing with the breeders currently and he is off to some show in Europe and the breeders says he is sort of Intl' champion. So the dealer have no plans to register the father dog in USA and I guess the dog don't belong to the dealer. I did google Tramin Tal Vez and seems to be up to his reputation. we happen to meet the mother as well.. she is very calm, mellow and looked very strong. The litter had 8 dogs of which 5 are sold. Do you think it is a right choice to choose from the remaining 3? based on the parents, grandparents and health data available of K9. We have been looking for a couple of months and most of the breeders in NorthCal either sell their puppies before they are born and don't agree to see the puppies until 6 weeks or so( which is good), but personally I don't like to place a deposit hold on puppy that is never and born and get one to home at first sight
No, there are several problems with this breeding. Number one, I would never get a puppy through a dealer. Reputable breeders sell their puppies directly to the families, so that they can screen them and make sure their puppies are going to great homes. They do not turn that job over to a broker. As a breeder myself, I can’t imagine doing this with a litter that I put my heart and soul into planning and raising. Number two, the mother is well under two years of age, and too young to be bred by any responsible breeder. It takes some time to find a good breeder, and often some time on their waiting list, but it’s worth it to have a puppy from someone who puts the time and effort into breeding puppies the best and most responsible way possible.
 

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No, there are several problems with this breeding. Number one, I would never get a puppy through a dealer. Reputable breeders sell their puppies directly to the families, so that they can screen them and make sure their puppies are going to great homes. They do not turn that job over to a broker. As a breeder myself, I can’t imagine doing this with a litter that I put my heart and soul into planning and raising. Number two, the mother is well under two years of age, and too young to be bred by any responsible breeder. It takes some time to find a good breeder, and often some time on their waiting list, but it’s worth it to have a puppy from someone who puts the time and effort into breeding puppies the best and most responsible way possible.
Thanks for your opinion. Sorry for my english vocabulary, it was a breeder. I misplaced 'dealer' in a wrong way. Can you please give your thoughts on the parents below which I am working with another breeder:
SIRE: Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO
DAM: Advanced Search | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO
 

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Sire: Eye exam 3 years out of date , heart exam inadequate (you need a cardiologist exam rather than a pet vet exam) and his sire appears to have failed elbows as did his full sibling.
Dam: Has no eye clearance at all and heart exam inadequate.
From the kennel names I am assuming this is someone who is just breeding their animals. There are 11 O'cribb's dogs on k9data none of them have the first title. The dogs on k9data (neither of these are there so looking at their pedigrees would take some work which I will do later if I get a chance) are pedigrees with nothing done with the dogs- frankly, what I imagine is just pets being reproduced. There are no recognizable kennel names in the pedigrees I looked at.

On your method- you mentioned not liking that litters are spoken for before they are born- but that is how it is generally done with reputable breeders. We want that time to get to know our puppy people, want them to see the whole litter from birth on via photos and want them to love the entire litter and be happy with the puppy we choose for them. I'd suggest you find a breeder you are simpatico with and just wait rather than look for a puppy from substandard breeders who are not breeding for love/furtherance of the breed.
 

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You are on the right track to be researching for a reputable breeder. I am a pet only person and Rukie is my first well bred Golden. I was surprised at how different and difficult it can be to get a puppy but quickly learned how important it is to get a dog with the best chances of healthy hips, elbows, heart and eyes. Elbow or knee surgery can cost thousands of dollars and it would be sad to watch your dog live with the pain. I also felt better about supporting someone whose intent was thoughtfully pairing dogs to produce better dogs and reduce health problems in the breed. A puppy from a good breeder is amazing when they have been given a stimulating environment, early start on training and temperament testing to match with what the owner hopes to do with their dog. Having a wait list is the way most reputable breeders work but I think a lot of them do not require the deposit until they know they have a puppy for you. My breeder seemed less concerned about the deposit than I was. I kept asking if I should send it and she kept saying not yet. She was waiting to be sure all the puppies were well on their way to being healthy and available. Best wishes on your search.
 

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Yes- stud dog is owned by Psyche Clark- and she also is the breeder on this bitch, just recently having transferred ownership to the person now on k9data as owner.
 

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I find the change history more interesting than the pedigree page for the most part.
Change history gives you the last date something happened- so if say PH is posted on Jan 1 it didn't happen on Jan 15...might've happened on Dec 15.
 

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I find the change history more interesting than the pedigree page for the most part.
Change history gives you the last date something happened- so if say PH is posted on Jan 1 it didn't happen on Jan 15...might've happened on Dec 15.
I am still confused by why you think this bitch was not owned by the Catherine Leigh Ruggels until recently? Is it because the K9 data page was created recently by the breeder?
 
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