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Hi,

Just wanted to post this thread to see if anyone has head of or has conversed with the people over at Wisteria Goldens. I am interested in two of their upcoming litters (Summer/Chance and Trinity/Tahoe). They seem reputable with their clearances but i was not sure - I am still quite the novice when it comes to knowing what to look for, but it seems legit?

If someone could let me know what they think, that would be awesome ...

Thanks!
 

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All Chance has is an inadequate (worth nothing) heart clearance. Nothing else.
Not going to waste my time looking up the rest of them but when one breeds a dog with no health clearances, one is not a good breeder. When a breeder lies on their site, it's even worse. "Normal elbows' on his page. If he had normal elbows it would be on OFA since there is no option to not publish passing finals. Nada there.
 

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I agree and would not call this an ethical breeder. Take a minute to read the breed standard, these dogs are really big/over standard, bulky build. Golden retrievers are an athletic, sporting breed.
This breeder imported dogs from Romania to make and sell puppies, no other purpose. There are no OFA clearances other than inadequate heart clearance. The way it is usually done with imports from Serbia/Russia/Romania or even Ireland is they test in the other country, some as early as 3 months. I'm a big believer in if you breed & sell puppies in the US you need to follow the guidelines of this country. Hips/elbows done after the dog is grown... 24 months. Heart should be done by a cardiologist and eyes should be done every 12 months. A quality breeder will be active in some sort of venue... international titles in the dogs background mean nothing, just for show. If the CURRENT breeder is not doing anything with their dogs other than making puppies, run away and keep looking.
Remember anyone can make a website, just because people put information on the sight doesn't mean it's true. Verify by looking it up on OFA.org. For a breeder to post pen hip results as mild... and still breeds this dog, shame on them. If you think this dog has mild hip dysplasia the right think to do would be to spay and remove from your breeding program. Just a hint in your search.... reputable breeders don't use English Cream as a selling point. English cream is not a breed. Just a marketing ploy to get you to spend money on a puppy with no added value or health.
 

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Between all 4 of these dogs there should be 16 verifiable health certifications in place. Instead there is a total of 3. Both moms are underage and can’t have full certifications and one of the dads is lacking majorly. I would say run from this type of breeder especially with the very high (amount 3k) price tag. For that you should get parents with full and verifiable health certifications, verifiable health certifications on the generations behind them and parents that compete and title to show they are more than a puppy factory on four legs.

If you need more information on health certifications and how to verify them, you should find this helpful.

Summer - no appropriate verifiable health certifications. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=2099071
874839


Trinity - no appropriate verifiable health certifications. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=2099069
874841


Chance - no appropriate verifiable health certifications. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?appnum=1896572
874842



Tahoe - Hips, elbows and heart in order, eyes need updated. He shows they do know how to get full certification. https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?appnum=1722254
874840
 

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I am no expert on health certifications BUT I have experience with Wisteria Goldens.In 2009 I got my boy Tripper from Frank and Debbie after my boy Skipper passed away from bone cancer(also a golden).Tripper was smart,sweet and healthy.When he passed away from bone cancer at 10 years of age I adopted Piper and Jazz who were being retired as breeders from Wisteria Goldens.Their grandfather was my Trippers father.They are smart sweet and healthy.I have been to Wisteria Goldens kennels,Debbie’s house is running over with mothers and pups.The kennels are really nice and yes there is a pond.They truly are raised as part of family.I agree that appears they are having a lot of litters(to many born of one female) their dogs for sure are bred for temperament.Sweet gentle and super smart.
 

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Hi,

Just wanted to post this thread to see if anyone has head of or has conversed with the people over at Wisteria Goldens. I am interested in two of their upcoming litters (Summer/Chance and Trinity/Tahoe). They seem reputable with their clearances but i was not sure - I am still quite the novice when it comes to knowing what to look for, but it seems legit?

If someone could let me know what they think, that would be awesome ...

Thanks!
 

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Hi,

Just wanted to post this thread to see if anyone has head of or has conversed with the people over at Wisteria Goldens. I am interested in two of their upcoming litters (Summer/Chance and Trinity/Tahoe). They seem reputable with their clearances but i was not sure - I am still quite the novice when it comes to knowing what to look for, but it seems legit?

If someone could let me know what they think, that would be awesome ...

Thanks!
Hi,

Just wanted to post this thread to see if anyone has head of or has conversed with the people over at Wisteria Goldens. I am interested in two of their upcoming litters (Summer/Chance and Trinity/Tahoe). They seem reputable with their clearances but i was not sure - I am still quite the novice when it comes to knowing what to look for, but it seems legit?

If someone could let me know what they think, that would be awesome ...

Thanks!
Just wondering if you ever got a fur baby.
 

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Hi,

Just wanted to post this thread to see if anyone has head of or has conversed with the people over at Wisteria Goldens. I am interested in two of their upcoming litters (Summer/Chance and Trinity/Tahoe). They seem reputable with their clearances but i was not sure - I am still quite the novice when it comes to knowing what to look for, but it seems legit?

If someone could let me know what they think, that would be awesome ...

Thanks!
Did you ever end up getting a puppy from Wisteria? I have had 3 Goldens from Debbie Franklin at Wisteria Goldens out of Parks, AK. Our first was born 12/17/2006 and he was gentle, kind, cuddly, smart, and healthy up until the last few months of his life when he battled a mast cell tumor in his liver, he died just shy of his 13th birthday. He was THE BEST dog! We currently have two Wisteria Goldens born 6/27/2019 & 5/12/2020. They are both fantastic dogs and it's our first time having two dogs at the same time, I wish we would have done that while we had our first. I cannot speak to anything other than my personal experience with Wisteria Goldens. When we got our most recent puppy (born 5/12/2020) I drove all the way to Arkansas and picked him up at Wisteria Ranch. It was out in the country, the view was amazing, the dogs are clearly well cared for, and the puppies are heavenly. I have nothing but good things to say about Wisteria Goldens and the dogs we have & have had from them. When we were first time dog owners back in 2007 we had so many questions and wanted to make sure we were going to be getting a "good" dog that was healthy and well behaved. Debbie was so helpful and answered all of our questions and it could not have gone better. That's why after we lost our sweet boy we called her again because I knew we could trust we would be getting a "good" dog. She cares about her dogs and wants them with people who will treat them right.
 

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Did you ever end up getting a puppy from Wisteria? I have had 3 Goldens from Debbie Franklin at Wisteria Goldens out of Parks, AK. Our first was born 12/17/2006 and he was gentle, kind, cuddly, smart, and healthy up until the last few months of his life when he battled a mast cell tumor in his liver, he died just shy of his 13th birthday. He was THE BEST dog! We currently have two Wisteria Goldens born 6/27/2019 & 5/12/2020. They are both fantastic dogs and it's our first time having two dogs at the same time, I wish we would have done that while we had our first. I cannot speak to anything other than my personal experience with Wisteria Goldens. When we got our most recent puppy (born 5/12/2020) I drove all the way to Arkansas and picked him up at Wisteria Ranch. It was out in the country, the view was amazing, the dogs are clearly well cared for, and the puppies are heavenly. I have nothing but good things to say about Wisteria Goldens and the dogs we have & have had from them. When we were first time dog owners back in 2007 we had so many questions and wanted to make sure we were going to be getting a "good" dog that was healthy and well behaved. Debbie was so helpful and answered all of our questions and it could not have gone better. That's why after we lost our sweet boy we called her again because I knew we could trust we would be getting a "good" dog. She cares about her dogs and wants them with people who will treat them right.
I am super glad that you have great dogs, really, BUT Debbie doesn't do the proper health testing for Goldens. Even though she knows she should, she chooses not to. In fact, she out right lies on her website about the clearances her dogs have. If you don't already have pet insurance, I encourage you to get it. With unknown hips and elbows, deficient heart exams (Goldens MUST be examined by a cardiologist, the consequences are literally life and death), and non-existent eye exams on OFA.org, I'm genuinely sorry to tell you that your dogs are at high risk of hereditary issues.

I honestly just got a little sick to my stomach looking at the website. It breaks my heart to see someone so carelessly breeding and clearly only doing it for the money. Especially in my beloved home state. And preying on puppy buyers who don't know any better. :cry::cry::cry:
 

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Wow. I had forgotten about this breeder whose site contains so many untruths .. Chance STILL has 'normal elbows, 60%tile (which is pretty awful but also isn't true since PH hasn't issued %tiles in YEARS... ) hips on her site: "PennHip – 60% | Elbow – Normal | Heart – Normal | Eyes – Pending | Ichthyosis – Carrier | PRA-1 Clear | PRA-2 Clear" . He has an inadequate (pet vet) heart cert, not the level of cardiac exam a Golden needs since Goldens have serious heart issues.
Brighton, dam of current litter w Chance, has this on OFA-https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1974281 and that's all her own parents have, too- inadequate heart listen-to's by a practitioner, not a cardiologist. YET her site says :
"
PennHip (DI) Right .35/Left .43 (Mild Risk)| Elbow – Normal | Heart – Normal | Ichthyosis – Clear | Eyes – Pending | PRA-1 – Clear | PRA-2 – Carrier | PRCD – Clear | Degenerative Myelopathy – Clear

Brighton does not have a normal elbow clearance .No one in the US does them but OFA, and there's nothing there - there's no 'out' for passing exams.
Hope: PennHip (DI) Right .27 Left .32 (Low Risk) Elbows – Normal | Eyes – Pending | Heart – Normal | Ichthyosis – Carrier | PRA – Clear | PRA-1 – C is stated on site. Again, the normal elbows is not true. The heart is a practitioner and nothing else is there. Another thing that IS there is parentage that is completely different than what she input to k9data. Even if the 'other' Hope w a Wisteria kennel prefix on her is this Hope,Pedigree: Wisteria Hope, parentage is still not same.
Plus both these girls are 10+-ish years old. Who does that?
https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=2099066 is Brea- she too lacks a correct heart clearance. Ya'll- these Eastern Euro Soviet Block dogs have a pedigree FULL of no heart clearances. They are sooo much more risky than a plain old US dog- at least we (most of us) have been doing hearts properly for more than 25 years.
Theo - same scenario on the heart and this dog wasn't 2 yet when this litter was bred/whelped, so there is zero chance any of this published info would be appropriately aged (PennHip .44 & .47 | Elbows – Normal | Heart – Normal | PRA – Clear | PRA1 – Clear | PRA2 – Carrier | ICT-A – Clear | Degenerative Myelopathy – Clear) except for the DNA. Again, the 'elbows, normal' at best is a preliminary and is NOT A CLEARANCE
 

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I am super glad that you have great dogs, really, BUT Debbie doesn't do the proper health testing for Goldens. Even though she knows she should, she chooses not to. In fact, she out right lies on her website about the clearances her dogs have. If you don't already have pet insurance, I encourage you to get it. With unknown hips and elbows, deficient heart exams (Goldens MUST be examined by a cardiologist, the consequences are literally life and death), and non-existent eye exams on OFA.org, I'm genuinely sorry to tell you that your dogs are at high risk of hereditary issues.

I honestly just got a little sick to my stomach looking at the website. It breaks my heart to see someone so carelessly breeding and clearly only doing it for the money. Especially in my beloved home state. And preying on puppy buyers who don't know any better. :cry::cry::cry:
That's lucky you're also in the same state as Wisteria Goldens. Have you ever been out to visit the ranch and talk with Debbie?
 

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That's lucky you're also in the same state as Wisteria Goldens. Have you ever been out to visit the ranch and talk with Debbie?
No, I haven’t. When I was looking for a Golden several years ago I stumbled across her website and all I saw were red flags. I automatically ruled her out because she wasn’t doing the proper health testing for Goldens. She may seem like a very nice person, but she intentionally lies to people about the health of her dogs.
 

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No, I haven’t. When I was looking for a Golden several years ago I stumbled across her website and all I saw were red flags. I automatically ruled her out because she wasn’t doing the proper health testing for Goldens. She may seem like a very nice person, but she intentionally lies to people about the health of her dogs.
Just my opinion, but I think it would be best to speak directly to the breeder and then if possible visit and see the clearances first hand in person. Not sure how far you are away from where she is, but could be beneficial. First hand experience and knowledge would be ideal- especially in the world of the internet, that is most helpful to all.
 

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Just my opinion, but I think it would be best to speak directly to the breeder and then if possible visit and see the clearances first hand in person. Not sure how far you are away from where she is, but could be beneficial. First hand experience and knowledge would be ideal- especially in the world of the internet, that is most helpful to all.
Clearances are there or they aren't- OFA has no option for not publishing on the database passing hips and elbows. And if a breeder is making puppies and not doing proper heart checks and sending those and eyes to OFA, you can bet they know better and they are cutting corners other places too.
No need to visit to 'see clearances'-
Since you obviously have a relationship with this breeder, if you care about her reputation ask her to just follow the CoE recommendations-particularly in her case on the heart certs- a P clearance is not worth the paper it's printed on imo for a Golden
- and put all on OFA.
 

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And of course there is no way a breeder could counterfeit paper documents. 😉

It absolutely can and does happen, not saying this is the case for this breeder. If it is on OFA that is a public verification but protected entry database. If it is on OFA, buyers can then rest assured the certifications real and not fictitious, altered or being misrepresented.
 

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Honestly @SanEve I’m pretty sure I closed the site and ruled her out shortly after seeing the words “English Cream” because 1) there are zero ethical breeders using that term and 2) I don’t like that style of Golden Retriever.

The others are right, if elbows were done and passed they would be on OFA. There is no option on the form to hide passing results (you can find the forms here on the OFA website: https://www.ofa.org/application-forms). I can see three scenarios here:

1. Elbows haven’t been done at all (most likely IMO).
2. Elbows were done and literally every dog she owns failed (unlikely, but possible since most of the dogs are related and there are multiple generations with no elbow clearances).
3. Elbows were x-rayed by her local pet vet but never submitted to OFA and evaluated by their team of vets. Pet vet said they look “normal”, which is nowhere near the same thing as having elbows evaluated by the experts at OFA.

In every scenario, the information she has on her website showing normal elbows is a bold-faced lie. Using the language “Elbows: Normal” implies OFA evaluation when there clearly is none. I don’t need to meet her or visit her ranch to know what kind of person she really is. It doesn’t matter how she raises her puppies or how nice she is to deal with or even how nice your dogs are because this woman isn’t doing right by the breed itself, by the puppies she produces, or by the people who buy these puppies. She knows what should be done (as shown by the content on her website) and is consciously choosing to both not do the right thing and to lie about it. Elbow dysplasia can be debilitating and extremely painful for the dog.

The reason the practitioner heart clearances are an issue is because Golden Retrievers are susceptible to a hereditary heart condition called sub-aortic stenosis that can result in a young dog suddenly dropping dead with no warning. Many, many practitioners miss the very subtle murmurs that are often the only sign the dog is affected with this condition, but cardiologists have the additional training and expertise to catch these murmurs before it’s too late. The difference can be literally life and death.

We are not just spouting unverified opinions here, all of this health information can be independently verified by anyone on grca.org and ofa.org.
 

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Honestly @SanEve I’m pretty sure I closed the site and ruled her out shortly after seeing the words “English Cream” because 1) there are zero ethical breeders using that term and 2) I don’t like that style of Golden Retriever.

The others are right, if elbows were done and passed they would be on OFA. There is no option on the form to hide passing results (you can find the forms here on the OFA website: https://www.ofa.org/application-forms). I can see three scenarios here:

1. Elbows haven’t been done at all (most likely IMO).
2. Elbows were done and literally every dog she owns failed (unlikely, but possible since most of the dogs are related and there are multiple generations with no elbow clearances).
3. Elbows were x-rayed by her local pet vet but never submitted to OFA and evaluated by their team of vets. Pet vet said they look “normal”, which is nowhere near the same thing as having elbows evaluated by the experts at OFA.

In every scenario, the information she has on her website showing normal elbows is a bold-faced lie. Using the language “Elbows: Normal” implies OFA evaluation when there clearly is none. I don’t need to meet her or visit her ranch to know what kind of person she really is. It doesn’t matter how she raises her puppies or how nice she is to deal with or even how nice your dogs are because this woman isn’t doing right by the breed itself, by the puppies she produces, or by the people who buy these puppies. She knows what should be done (as shown by the content on her website) and is consciously choosing to both not do the right thing and to lie about it. Elbow dysplasia can be debilitating and extremely painful for the dog.

The reason the practitioner heart clearances are an issue is because Golden Retrievers are susceptible to a hereditary heart condition called sub-aortic stenosis that can result in a young dog suddenly dropping dead with no warning. Many, many practitioners miss the very subtle murmurs that are often the only sign the dog is affected with this condition, but cardiologists have the additional training and expertise to catch these murmurs before it’s too late. The difference can be literally life and death.

We are not just spouting unverified opinions here, all of this health information can be independently verified by anyone on grca.org and ofa.org.
I purchased a Golden from Wisteria back in 2014. Biggest mistake I’ve made. The puppies are beautiful and I was smitten. However, the reality of the situation was that I received a puppy with horrible anxiety issues and, after two years of constant vet visits for chronic diarrhea, a diagnosis of Fiber Responsive Colitis. It cost me over $5000 in vet bills the first three years of her life and took a specialist to diagnose her condition. The health nightmare began as soon as I picked her up from the airport and I called Debbie within the first month to ask if the puppy had exhibited any symptoms in AR, and was told “absolutely not”. Once I went through trip after trip after trip to the vet, I understood that this was a chronic condition and did not suddenly develop when she got to me. Be warned if you’re going to buy a puppy from Wisteria - take out pet insurance at the very least.
 
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