[Zerpersande]

This is less about Goldens specifically and more about the preferences in training style that we, as owners, employ. I’ve added a poll to this post. Well, at least that is my intention but asca relatively new memver I haven’t even seen one on this forum, much less made one, but I’ll be positive and assume that it works.
But I would as you to consider doing the following if you wish to participate…
1- Take the poll
2- BEFORE reading any of the posts that (I hope) are made to this thread, make your own initial post with a summary if your thoughts on training styles, keeping in mind the choices you saw in the poll.
(Hopefully at least this will result in more calm and collected initial posts. 🙏)

I’m going to follow the same guidelines myself and not use this initial post to expound on my own views on dog training. This is a very subjective topuc where some people get rather zealous, which is fine, but at least make an initial effort to be civil and not be the first one to throw a stone.

Thanks in advance for participating.

 

[Megora]

Neither.

 

[Zerpersande]

Neither.

Would you describe your basic approach?

 

[SRW]

MIlan/Beckman/Khron

Never heard of them.

 

[Zerpersande]

MIlan/Beckman/Khron

Never heard of them.

(Just noticed I left out the ‘i’ in ‘Millan’ in the poll. Ditto with Krohn. Can’t correct them either.)

Milan - Cesar Milan from Dog Whisperer
Beckman -

Krohn -

The difference in styles is more a matter of the attitude toward correcting undesirable/unacceptable behavior.

 

[Megora]

Would you describe your basic approach?

I actually think you need to organize your thoughts a little better, do a little more research into the dog training community, and present appropriate choices for people to pick from. Because this is how I saw your poll, or the equivalent:

 

[GoldenDude]

It really depends.

And I honestly don't care how anyone else trains their dog. Nor do I care what they think of how I train my dog.

But I am aware that a lot of people on this forum like to think they have the perfect training method and that's awesome for them.

 

[Zerpersande]

I actually think you need to organize your thoughts a little better….

Well, that didn’t really do anything to describe your approach. At least directly so.
It was my intention to be vague. As I have researched training methods it seemed to come down to the Purely Positive crowd vs those that use correction techniques of any sort. And the correction techniques invariably get the Purely Positive crowd hot and bothered. I suppose that mentioning Cesar Millan would have sufficed, but I just added a couple of others that that are similar to Millan in ways but also use positive reinforcement in addition to corrective techniques. But it seems my efforts to word it vaguely was in vain.

 

[SRW]

The only thing two trainers of field retrievers ever agree on about training is that another trainer is doing it wrong.

 

[DevWind]

Neither. More balanced. E-collars have their place. I have nothing against them. You shouldn’t need them for basic obedience though. I’m training high level obedience and don’t us them. There’s even a place for a more positive approach. For example, there’s an Akita wwhete I train. Beautiful dog. Does everything at a snails pace. Zero energy. Owner is a bit frustrated about how slow he works. I almost never see owner truly praise. He’s very much old school, no treats kind of trainer. Only slightly praises perfection. I told him that the dog needs more praise. He needs happy, bouncy training. Of course, I was not to be believed, given the dog, and basically told to prove it. I had the dog bouncing along beside me play biting at me, working efficiently, and just having a blast. I did a master level rally course with him. He didn’t do everything right because I don’t know all his commands but we had a good time. Owner was shocked that he listened and did so well.

I never thought working an Akita would be so much fun.

 

[FurdogDad]

The only thing two trainers of field retrievers ever agree on about training is that another trainer is doing it wrong.

Sometimes that's the only thing any 2 trainers of Golden retrievers on this forum agree on.......

 

[DevWind]

The only thing two trainers of field retrievers ever agree on about training is that another trainer is doing it wrong.

That goes for all venues.

 

[Aly2015]

There is no option for somewhere in between? I think most training tools (prong, e collars, etc) have their place and are beneficial when used correctly. I also think praise, treats and positivity bring joy and excitement into working for a dog.
Personally, I lean towards positive reinforcement training, but also give corrections when I feel appropriate. I also think relationship is key to successful training and different dogs benefit from slightly different approaches.
I agree with what others have said though- dog trainers rarely agree with each other lol. Nonetheless, I have enjoyed reading a variety of training topics on this forum to gather different ideas and techniques to try out myself. Different opinions give lots of opportunities for learning

 

[aesthetic]

Neither. Anyone who calls themselves a “purely positive” dog trainer doesn’t understand the four quadrants of learning. I’m a cookie pusher, but my dogs do have consequences if they’re being stupid.

 

[myluckypenny]

Yeah I'm not going to pick an option of two extremes. Now if you would have put someone like Michael Ellis or Dave Kroyer. Those two best represent my style of training.

 

[diane0905]

I’ve learned a lot from R+ trainers and balanced trainers. I prefer a combination of the two. Logan engages well with positive input. I tend to be quiet/more soft spoken and my latest competition obedience class is helping me to be more animated like DevWind describes above. He’s really enjoying It. They suggest corrections for blatant disobedience (like if he took off across the room ignoring, for example), but otherwise say to make it as fun as possible so both handler and dog are enjoying it. I think it’s important to really get to know your dog and how he or she responds/is motivated.

 

[Oceanside]

This is less about Goldens specifically and more about the preferences in training style that we, as owners, employ. I’ve added a poll to this post. Well, at least that is my intention but asca relatively new memver I haven’t even seen one on this forum, much less made one, but I’ll be positive and assume that it works.
But I would as you to consider doing the following if you wish to participate…
1- Take the poll
2- BEFORE reading any of the posts that (I hope) are made to this thread, make your own initial post with a summary if your thoughts on training styles, keeping in mind the choices you saw in the poll.
(Hopefully at least this will result in more calm and collected initial posts. 🙏)

I’m going to follow the same guidelines myself and not use this initial post to expound on my own views on dog training. This is a very subjective topuc where some people get rather zealous, which is fine, but at least make an initial effort to be civil and not be the first one to throw a stone.

Thanks in advance for participating.

Neither. I’m definitely not purely positive, and I do use an e-collar but really only for recall at this point, so that choice really doesn’t fit the bill either. And whoever those names are, idk. So I’m somewhere in the tremendous expanse between those two options, which is probably the case for 99% of people…

 

[Megora]

Well, that didn’t really do anything to describe your approach. At least directly so.
It was my intention to be vague. As I have researched training methods it seemed to come down to the Purely Positive crowd vs those that use correction techniques of any sort. And the correction techniques invariably get the Purely Positive crowd hot and bothered. I suppose that mentioning Cesar Millan would have sufficed, but I just added a couple of others that that are similar to Millan in ways but also use positive reinforcement in addition to corrective techniques. But it seems my efforts to word it vaguely was in vain.

Do you understand what the purely positive crowd is? This would be the people who literally say you cannot even say the word "NO" to your dogs. Some of these people are shape everything with food or praise rewards only to get to a result (which is about as exciting as counting grains of sand on a beach and can be de-motivating to the dogs even who learn fastest with other methods which guide and help them be right the first time, including telling the dog "no" or "ah-ah" when they are wrong). Others are more extreme and see competition and dog sports as innately cruel to the dogs.

Then I would venture to say very few people on this forum who hang ecollars up on their walls as their kitchen gods or who put ecollars on their own necks and zap themselves for fun.... would be likely to identify their training style or purpose with somebody like Cesar Millan.

Your poll is not vague. It is poorly constructed and or shows you don't know how big the dog training world is.

Should add, my answer would have been balanced - but as per what some have already said, not everyone agrees with what "balanced" means.

To me, balanced means - 90% praise/rewards/positive motivation and 10% corrections that are fair and specific to my dog.

To others, balanced means 95% correction/negative reinforcement based and 5% positive reinforcement.

I believe that if you rewrote the poll to add a third option - "Balanced". All might check that box and you really would not have information that is useful at all.

 

[cwag]

I did not read any other posts yet but my first reaction is you have left out all middle ground and I cannot choose either of these.

 

[Zerpersande]

The only thing two trainers of field retrievers ever agree on about training is that another trainer is doing it wrong.

Thanks, I now have something I can post to one thread asking ‘What have you learned from this forum?’

There is no option for somewhere in between? I think most training tools (prong, e collars, etc) have their place and are beneficial when used correctly. I also think praise, treats and positivity bring joy and excitement into working for a dog.
Personally, I lean towards positive reinforcement training, but also give corrections when I feel appropriate. I also think relationship is key to successful training and different dogs benefit from slightly different approaches.
I agree with what others have said though- dog trainers rarely agree with each other lol. Nonetheless, I have enjoyed reading a variety of training topics on this forum to gather different ideas and techniques to try out myself. Different opinions give lots of opportunities for learning

As I responded to one comment, the trainers I mentioned use positive reinforcement, with the two examples seemingly making it the major strategy. Cesar Milan is more known for rehabilitation (his word) than training of puppies. From the posts, clips and article I have read purely positive group seems to go after anyone that corrects their dog. So it didn’t seem important to me who I mentioned as the alternative to purely positive.