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Golden Retriever Rescues...from China?

3295 Views 93 Replies 24 Participants Last post by  Peri29
I wanted to ask for the opinions of golden retriever experts on this...One of the golden retriever rescues I network with as part of my pet sitting business has started taking in unwanted golden retrievers from China because there is a shortage of goldens in need of rescue not just in my state, but nationwide. Do you see any potential problems that could come with bringing in rescues from other countries? Rescue A Golden of Arizona - Available Dogs

Not trying to badmouth anybody; whatever choice they make is for them to decide, but I'm honestly curious about whether rescuing a golden from a place like China is a good idea or not?
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Ramses, golden retriever bred in France 😆
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Regarding importing a dog into the US - I'm very curious about this because I just imported my dog from France/Switzerland. If I remember, only rabies seems to be the only mandatory criteria needed for the US?

However, once here and established with a vet we went through all the vaccines that Ramses has had done - like leptospirosis, distemper etc. But also the non core ones (this is mainly due to our travel within the EU). We have everything necessary and that's good according to the vet here in the US. But I really wonder what a vet would do with a dog that doesn't have this "proven history of vaccination" - how are the new pet owners of these rescue Goldens going to show this record as they are from abroad? I mean since they are rescues - are they vaxxed in their countries of origin before coming besides just rabies? With this in mind, I can understand the GRCA's position on rescues...
 

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Regarding importing a dog into the US - I'm very curious about this because I just imported my dog from France/Switzerland. If I remember, only rabies seems to be the only mandatory criteria needed for the US?

However, once here and established with a vet we went through all the vaccines that Ramses has had done - like leptospirosis, distemper etc. But also the non core ones (this is mainly due to our travel within the EU). We have everything necessary and that's good according to the vet here in the US. But I really wonder what a vet would do with a dog that doesn't have this "proven history of vaccination" - how are the new pet owners of these rescue Goldens going to show this record as they are from abroad? I mean since they are rescues - are they vaxxed in their countries of origin before coming besides just rabies? With this in mind, I can understand the GRCA's position on rescues...
I wonder too , if the regulations for importing dogs are tightened up because of diseased animals being brought in by rescues, how would that impact people like Sankari and her husband moving here for an extended period with their dog?
 

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I wonder too , if the regulations for importing dogs are tightened up because of diseased animals being brought in by rescues, how would that impact people like Sankari and her husband moving here for an extended period with their dog?
My guess is that it would be fairly easy to distinguish between individual dog owners who can show a history of appropriate vet care in their country of origin, vs a rescue group importing former street dogs, or meat dogs, or any other dog without a long-term vet history.
 

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I would really hope that being in compliance with the rules would help in their assessment at the border. We checked for months for federal and state rules for California and Oregon and got a pet relocation company just to be safe. I would rather pay than to have my golden left behind! I was surprised there were not so many criteria involved for the US. We did give his pet passport which has all his vaccines. And titer values for rabies as well. I'm not sure if the titer values were required - we might have done it because we wanted to give them more "proof". Perhaps in Europe (Western Europe), we have the impression that US authorities are strict. And if we didn't comply, there would be consequences.

But I really wonder how the vets here assess these cases once these dogs are already imported in the US and are here.. Since there's a lot of concern regarding diseases - which I completely understand and they have no/sketchy histories...
 

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Regarding importing a dog into the US - I'm very curious about this because I just imported my dog from France/Switzerland. If I remember, only rabies seems to be the only mandatory criteria needed for the US?

However, once here and established with a vet we went through all the vaccines that Ramses has had done - like leptospirosis, distemper etc. But also the non core ones (this is mainly due to our travel within the EU). We have everything necessary and that's good according to the vet here in the US. But I really wonder what a vet would do with a dog that doesn't have this "proven history of vaccination" - how are the new pet owners of these rescue Goldens going to show this record as they are from abroad? I mean since they are rescues - are they vaxxed in their countries of origin before coming besides just rabies? With this in mind, I can understand the GRCA's position on rescues...
Will reply soon
 

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PART 1-

A couple of days ago, I started writing but guess what all gone...However, as we know once you are on the REPLY button but you leave the page before hitting POST /or REPLY , on the it is not saved as a draft / but automatically the post stays where you left at without being posted. So next time, you log in and comment you are where you left the page. It was totally gone which confirmed me once more that all my entries are being monitored by Service Provider. This does not concern any of you. I am just writing it here so that my dear HACKERS read it. Guess what ? I take it as a compliment:))

Somewhere above, I explained all the health checkups that rescued GRs are undergoing before and after arriving to US .And professional rescues such as YGRR are more than happy that CDC finally implements more strict rules for rescue dogs from abroad. The excuse for CDC ban was rabies. However, if you check the data , one will see that in reality it was not rabies but " falsified health certificates" or "wrong data entry".

We all know though that a pet is more likely to get rabies in US by coyotes ( including bats) which may attack any time American Dogs.

RABIES DETECTED IN ONE DOG IMPORTED FROM EGYPT

I am not including here the Rabies ban of CDC on 113 countries because if you analyze their reports, the ban was due to falsified certificates or mistakes done on the health certificates mainly due to puppy smuggling.

Yes, there was a rabies issue with a dog imported from Egypt . I do not recall the breed but I have some hypothesises. The rabies incident from Egypt always seemed strange for me due to the reasons below.

1)COST OF RABIES VACC in EGYPT

the rabies vaccine is sooo cheap compare to US and it can be also given free by shelters as in Turkey. So, economical reasons for not giving the rabies vacc is out of question.

2) VACCINATION TIME/ TITRATION / FALSE POSITIVE issue

- at least a month shall pass before the dog may enter to US. Let’s brainstorm;

a) if the dog really was vaccinated a month prior to arrival to US, howcome the dog has shown no signs??

b) as we all know , a dog will show CPV + , CDV + or rabies + after vaccination. I am not sure how long the dog’s test will show rabies + , but dogs show CPV or CDV + within the first couple of months. In other words, we may have FALSE POSITIVE results.

3) When was the dog rescued and after how many weeks / months the dog flew from Egypt to US

If the dog had been rescued let’s say 8 weeks ago and as one of the core vaccination rabies was given, it may mean that a titration was never reached. ( might be an issue with the dog’s immune system ; an antibody / antigen issue)

Or the dog has been just rescued a couple of days ago and flew directly from Egypt to US.

4) RABIES VACC SIDE EFFECTS including other vacc side effects

A dog may show severe side effects of Parvo, Corona, Distemper and Rabies after vaccination including tremors, seizures even paralysis ( esp post rabies vac) .

5) SEVERE REACTION TO DEWORMING/ PREVENTATIVE

Not a secret that some antiflea treatments such as Nexgard, Simparica including Seresto collars and similar MAY cause severe side effects.

I am just trying to brainstorm because due to such cheap vaccination , I cannot still believe that the dog had not been vaccinated.

Is it possible that the had shown severe sideeffect to any deworming / preventative given in US which was mistaken with rabies sign and the dog has shown rabies + because the vaccination has just been given in Egypt???? I have videos of a dog who was just out of shelter in Izmir . Neutered but had severe epileptic attacks and died.Anything was suspected including distemper ( neurological signs) . He died. Naturally, the rabies test most probably resulted + because the dog was just out of shelter, neutered and given rabies vac.

Still a question mark at least in my opinion.Wonder yours??

BRUCELLOSIS DOG / WISCONSIN

The dog has flown from China to Canada to a multidog shelter and spent some time in Canada before transported via van with the rest of rescued dogs to US. Canada was a temporary spot for them before US.

And we all know the outcome.

Here I do not have any suspicion. A Brucellosis+ dog is a brucellosis+ dog and it resulted in the euthanization of the other dogs in the same unit.

It was a right decision by CDC to ask for brucellosis test but not applicable in all states of US. YGRR in MA and GBR in Washiongton State /Oregon had been already for Brucellosis test for their imported dogs including blood vector diseases such as Leishmania, Anaplasma, Babesiosis,Lyme and Ehrlichia. And they have to be 2-4 weeks old. This means all YGRR dogs will have to retested 2 weeks prior to their flight to Boston.



EU regulations for pets travelling from non – EU/EC countries

Dogs travelling from outside EU countries to EU, shall show a Rabies titration test result.Quite fair. How does it work? Let’s say ; the dog has been rescued in Turkey. The dog is given rabies vac. After 1 month of vaccination, the blood sample is sent by the vet to Ankara ( governmental lab) and after 3 months the result arrives. This is a total 4 months long period before the dog can fly to any EU country although the rabies vacc is the same brand as European or American ones . Beohringer Ingelheim, Nobivac, Defensor…

US regulations for pets travelling from EU countries

No rabies test result is being asked if the rabies vaccine has been given by a Certified Vet. And yes, they do not ask much at the customs whether the health certificate has dhppL or bordotella vaccine.

They should !!!

Spain, Italy,Greece are full of Ehrlichia, Leishmania, Anaplasma, HW positive dogs . Symptomatic or assymptomatic. Both Ehrlichia & Anaplasma are diseases which are quite easy to treat ( except of chronic ones by what I mean resistant to Doxycline or Tetracyline) treat but Leishmania is a complicated case. It may go into remission but flare up again. Strict monitoring is necessary. Yess, Leishmania is not transmittable directly from dog to Human BUT is transmittable between dogs by BLOOD. What does it mean? Blood transfusion. In our case no problem because any dog before blood transfusion as a doneur gets tested in US and in most of the countries ..But also via bite. Bite can be also very innocent bites. Such as of during cute tug of wars between dogs in the dog parks.Better a single household dog.

Now, you are all getting paranoid. Aren’t you. But do not worry. I will make you more paranoid.

There is a case in UK ( published as well) which made me borderline paranoid. The dog started getting lesions. Multiple tests including Leishmania. The result was positive. The family lives in an area where no Leishmania case has been reported nor the dog has been outside the village. How come the dog had Leishmania? The family ( without the dog) had a vacation in Spain. The mosquito / or larvae got in the luggage. The mosquito has bitten the dog so the dog got Leishmania.

And Leishmania unfortunately can remain dormant even upto 6-7 years. A dog may not show any sign. If it is visceral, you may not even realize that your dog is Leishmania positive till the organs start shutting down or it may be mistaken with any disease. And those rapid test may not detect it. You shall ask ELISA / IFA by an outside lab. On top of that, there are cases that the dog does not produce antigen and not detectable via any type of test.

However, so is Lepto a very sneaky disease in US ( including LYME & HW) which is not encountered very often in Turkey or China. Lepto vaccine ( although given with dhppL most of the time) has a very short protection. Lepto is another dormant disease unless the dog show signs. In this case, how can we be sure that your dog is Lepto negative when your dog travels for a vacation with you from US to any European or Turkish resort. Our dogs very well can walk in the pond that your Lepto positive dog just peed. How can I be sure that your dog is not HW positive ( transmittable between dogs) if you travel with him to Europe or Turkey? Do not forget that even at the customs waiting area the cages are laid next to eachother. It does not always signs & symptoms therefore every local US dog entering local shelters are tested for HW.

So, tell me what are we supposed to do? Not travel anywhere with our dogs??

What about humans??? How can I make sure that any US Citizen visiting Europe or Turkey has no contagious disease??? Does it have to be always Covid? What about Influenza which has high death rate data in US?? Why me, my friends or our children shall be put into danger?

I do not think that AI is that advanced yet to create virtual dogs.So, what do we do ?

This is a dead end.



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PART II
If you read PART 1 , you understand that we live in such a huge but also that small world. Before discussing the DOG IMPORT ISSUE to US, we shall first define the terms of democracy, free will, free trade, responsibility and freedom. We are linked to eachother via trade, via tourism, via social events, arts, exhibitions, fairs….. I just read on a reputable business turkish website(!) that there was an event of textile union of Turkish businessmenJ You are all wondering why I put a smiley here. Their content creators will understandJAll the countries in the 21st century import /export even franchise / outsource other textiles,paintings, machinery, guns, technology including CHIPS even brains / talents especially US starting WW2. We have UN, NATO, BREXIT, EU, IMF even lately Shanghai One. We are soo much interwined and entangled. Both in Positive and Negative Way.

What do we do ? Not travel ? Not trade ? Not lending/borrowing Money ? Not invest ? Do we shut down Central Bank ? Moodys? Not travel to Europe or US for college studies even at least for learning language? We need eachother both to elevate but also to destroy eachother. This is a never ending chess game.

US DOGS:

I very well understand and I even feel frustrated , heartbroken and disappointed with each dog getting euthanized in US. Pittbulls which show no sign of aggression, huskies, rottweilers , GS , Labs and even small breeds that have been left out but has a minor / or major disease but cannot find any sponsor / pledge . Most of them cannot even find fosters because there is no place or some are paid fosters. US shelters are full. Especially also due to returned dogs which had been adopted during Covid period. There are around 400.000 pets euthanized yearly. It will not stop UNLESS very strict regulations better to say LAWS are passed in EVERY STATE . Florida, Texas dog ownership is out of control. However, in MA you rarely find dogs to adopt and they also rescue from other States. So, why is that?? It is due to CIVILIZATION & EDUCATION. With all the freedom and democratic choices are given, they are not exploited easily. Besides empathy, they have a sense of responsibility .They know to which extend their limits are, they think thrice before acting ( in this case purchasing / or adopting a pet and postcare) .

It was 17 years ago when I took care of puppies. Actually of the whole litter. We also had the mum dog. I cannot imagine myself at the moment adopting a puppy because it needs too much time, puppy excersises & training, physical and brain stimulation, patience… So most of the American families .

  • If they have no experience or underexperienced, they prefer to have as a first dog an easy going one. Most probably a Golden Retriever.
  • If they are working, as responsible owners they know they do not have enough time for puppy classes, potty training, every 4 hrs feeding, crating….. They will most probably adopt a dog above 3 years old. No more puppy craze or 2 years zoomies.
  • If they are above 60, they know that they cannot keep up with a dog which requires a lot of energy & play. They would prefer an adult or senior one
  • And there are families which are above 70. They want to be kind and adopt dogs who are seniors or with severe diseases.
  • And Cancer. The hemangiosarcoma nightmare. The average age of American dogs to get Lymphoma dropped to age 4. Scary. would personally be afraid to adopt an American Golden Retriever. Besides emotional reasons which is signing a contract with Universe for owning a dog which may die in your arms without even showing a symptom although she/he just had had a check up two months ago,.
  • Again Cancer even with dog insurance is a very but very costly treatment if you opt to fight. Many supplements, holistic & TCM treatments are not covered by insurance. And they are costly.
  • So where are those Golden Retrievers in US above especially 1-2 years old ? No Golden Retrievers of such ages to adopt. A breed which is less likely to be dumped and if they are , immediately removed by a rescue even before ending/or the moment end up in a shelter. There is a scarce of Golden Retrievers in US. It is the least abondoned breed. And we shall all be happy for it. And there are thousand in countries such as Romania, Turkey, Egypt, Far East. Why encourage people to breed more local GRs where there is a demand for past 2 years old , adult or seniors. It does not make sense.
And I do not know you but no one on earth can dictate me which car to drive, what brands to wear, which supplement to opt for. Although I have more chance to acquire CS from Europe, I prefer the American One “ Sovereign”. I love Oscar de la Renta, Ralph Lauren but I also love Valentino ,Balmain,… Dior. You may prefer a Volvo where as your neighbour an Audi. You may invest in restoration of a Colonial House in US or even a chateau in France. You may buy an American artpiece or invest into a Far Eastern One? Even with US / Ukraine war going on, you may still want read russian books , listen to Russian composers . I just discovered a designer that I loved very much . And they happen to be Ukranian. Nearby lives a family. The lady is Russian I was told by their son. Now they said Ukranian. We have a common stray dog under our care. In this case, I won’t care from where they are as long as we show compassion to a RIGHT cause WITHOUT SECOND AGENDA, the well being of an animal in need .

No one can tell me which breed to adopt also. Besides ECS as family dogs, I also had adopted GRs, GS, ES, mixed / no breeds…. I never adopted a forbidden breed but fostered a deaf dogo for 6 .They are soooooo lovely. I wish we could adopt them all. However, you have to have the right house, lifestyle, household dogs in order to adopt one. 2 of my dogs were quite bitchy & witchy ( an ECS and a mixed 5 star street dog) and I had to keep them always separate. A third one which could be triggered by them would not be wise. I have a hound mix which I cannot much socialize with the rest of the senior pack because he is like a Monkey .He is senior of puppy energy & spirit . He just keeps bothering them ( unwillingly) just by jumping and having zoomies most of the time. So, if I ever adopt a dog, will be most probably of very calm nature, adult to senior to get along with the rest of the pack. So, I understand people if they are into some specific breeds or they prefer small dogs due to their lifestyle.

While most of the pet owners in civilized & culturally advanced States are good pawrents, unfortunately in some American States they are not.They have a dog . That’s it. Not considered as a family member. Vaccinations, HW preventatives, spaying / neutering is not common ( typical Turkey). Most of the rescues operate mainly in their own States because there is a limit to network & volunteers & members which can follow up the dogs homed. It is a 10-15 years long follow up. And some rescued operate as Solo Breed Rescues which is understandable because they are specialized in the characteristics of the breed, from the behavioural assesment, issues to the health issues they are prone to. They are experts and remain constantly uptodate with the advancements in pet health. They try to cover a niche segment where they raise the bar constantly. It is a choice.

We cannot again blame any rescue or pet owner for their choices.

If there is anyone or any organization to hold responsible for , they are ;

  • CDC which should have already implemented strict rules & regulations for dog Import or dog transport from southern States including, vector born diseases, CPV /CDV, Rabies Titer which had been requested by EU from non EU countries since years .
  • Animal Services which should take every dog abuse / neglect into consideration .
  • Dog / pet ownership shall be allowed via permit which can be obtained only by fulfilling certain standards.
  • Ban of breeding / backyard breeding of risky ( although not) breeds and fine if they do. Again the role of animal services.
There is a price of living in a democratic country which is not to endanger the well being & safety of other people, the habitat and its main and authentic citizens which are nature & animals.

In my case,it means not harming the American Dogs. I am against of importing mixed breeds to US which are constantly on Euth List I would never endanger the chance of an American Dog getting adopted, by adding additional dogs to the homeless American dog population. Golden Retrievers as explained above are out of that list .If a mixed breed rescue wishes to really help dogs, they can pull from their local shelters ( in some cases Euth risk states) although it is of course subject to pledges & funds and with current economy & number of abandoned dog it is getting more and more impossible. Same valid for an American family. If they wish to rescue a mixed breed or endangered breed, their priority shall be adopting from their local shelter than outsource.

I believe to have explained in detail why GOLDEN RETRIEVERS including a couple of other breed IMPORTATION by responsible rescues do not cause any threat to Homeless American Population and we stand for strict pet health imporation regulations of CDC.
 

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I appreciate you taking the time to write this response 😊 I think you have a lot of good ideas and thoughts on why there should be precautions/safeguards etc. and for the most part I agree with everything. I have not spent enough time or lived in the US to criticize Americans, their laws or their dog ownership practices 😬 But I just wanted to clarify/illuminate how things work regarding the European/EU/EEA+Switzerland though. Because I have lived there quite long and understand some of your concerns...

The EU is complicated. The reason I say that is due to my work travel back there (and I did travel extensively within the EU/EEA + Switzerland with my golden retriever. Switzerland is special and doesn't belong to the EU/EEA but aligns itself generally). Based on our lifestyle, Ramses has taken all the core and quite a number of non core vaccinations to avoid some of the situations you are describing as a precaution and most importantly be in compliance with individual nation laws in the EU/EEA + Switzerland. The vet and his breeder were consulted and he didn't get any side effects due to these vaccines. Of course, I understand and keep in mind that some other dogs might have reactions to them. I did not just transport my golden to the US by myself. Ramses came with the aid of a pet company that was certified in the EU and have certified partners in the US - specifically to avoid any problems in the US (granted, we might just have been a bit more paranoid) and the pet company was actually a Swiss company. Ramses and I used to cross the border pretty much daily to Switzerland for work and they do check a lot of details for pets crossing as well... We entered the US from Switzerland. Regardless of whether the American authorities were going to be tough on us, the Swiss ones were always going to be doing that.

In Switzerland and EEA countries like Norway, Lichtenstein, Iceland etc standards can be different or even a lot stricter than the EU. We live in the triborder area (France, Germany and Switzerland) in France where crossing into any of these borders takes about 30 mins from our home. Having lived in various countries in Europe for 14 years, and being Singaporean by nationality - that means I'm constantly doing something bureaucratic just for myself to enter/live/work any combination of both. My work permit in Switzerland does not give me the right to live in France. My marriage to my French spouse on the other hand does not enable me to work in Switzerland. My German student permit theoretically allowed me to work in Sweden as an intern but the Swedish authorities wanted me to get their own permit because Sweden does not recognize the German language. The Swedish permit allowed me to live and work in Norway because Norway and Sweden are Nordic countries and they have their own fancy Nordic group... I have so many experiences like that - all very complicated! 😂 And the same thinking boils down to the pets and where they are entering from or where their origin is from.

EU laws are not nation state laws. EU laws are transposed into nation state laws. There's a deadline when a law is passed for nation states to transpose it into their nation laws so there's no choice once a law is adopted in the EU. When a law is adopted by the EU, it could be interpreted differently in Germany vs Netherlands. For example, the Germans could go further or be stricter in their transposition of their law than the Dutch for the same EU law. This varies among countries but the crux of the EU law is transposed into the nation law once adopted. Secondly, there is a vast economic/social differences/ideology/attitudes between Northern vs Southern Europeans.... Eastern vs Western Europeans. I've lived in different countries in Europe for 14 years. When you have been there so long, and done everything in a few countries you get a very good idea of how the EU/EEA + Switzerland work. Switzerland which is not in the EU/EEA is very, very, very, very strict on a lot of things. It is a pain in the literal butt to do anything. I know that personally because I also work in a laboratory and when I approve ordering chemicals from the lab technicians - that means filling up a lot of forms, making sure they are in compliance and signing them all! Even if it's just buying them from neighboring France. Otherwise, you don't get the chemicals and for a couple of days we can't run any experiments. So I have to plan everything in advance. And no, you can't just bring them from France even if its right by the border. One can't even just bring a simple metal pipe from France to Switzerland - that's illegal. Every thing requires huge documentation (only in German/French/Italian/Romansch not English). I thought I had a good handle on documentation since I started my undergrad in Germany - where it's already very strict with rules and bureaucracy just to study/live there. But even Germans would tell you the Swiss take it to another level. So you can imagine how strict they are regarding pets entering their country. Standards in Western and Northern Europe which belong to the EU are very strict on quality control as well and will have nation laws that are even stricter. To fully understand any particular nation's laws, it is essential to also understand their native language well and speak it fluently. Because things are more detailed there than what is on the internet in English. I therefore can't speak much for how things are done in Italy, Spain, Greece Portugal etc - although I have visited, I have not lived there, am not fluent in those languages and feel it unfair to categorize my thoughts on that. I am aware though that certain illnesses pertaining to dogs are more endemic there due to climate.

As for people entering the EU .. there are rules regarding vaccinations based on the country you're coming from. In Singapore where I'm originally from, rules and regulations are very strict. Vaccinations are generally mandatory for children from birth - you don't get a choice on whether you want to opt out for it or only some of them unless for a very good medical reason. There are consequences in Singapore for not vaccinating your child and there are harsh penalties for that. Even with that in mind, I was advised to bring all my health booklets when I entered Germany as a student. My older brother who attended a different German university 2 years prior to me was told the same. Did they check? No.. On the other hand a couple of Romanian students attending the same German university was asked to provide proof of all the vaccinations they had done from birth before entering. Keep in mind that Romania is part of the EU...

Many European teens now enter American schools for a year or so on exchange programs. They are required to show a list of vaccinations because the American schools require them - I am aware of this because a friend in my neighbourhood told me about it. She has sent two kids to the US and it was mandatory for them to show this vaccines to the school to attend classes even though it was not a requirement by the US immigration/customs authorities to enter the US legally. The EU works a lot on reciprocity agreements much like the US and other countries do. And also based on a level of risk the third nation in particular poses, what the standards are in the particular country etc,.. And certain countries/nationalities have perceived better standards, better partnerships which results in speedier processing. However, in practice it seems to me that there are countries or even places that require you to show more proof even from individuals..

I don't know of any Western European/Northern European country that would not take quality standards seriously. For instance, keeping a dog in a waiting area in an airport where they could potentially infect another dog. There will be serious consequences if that actually happens. Every dog/pet that enters a waiting area in an airport in an EU country will have to show their pet records and these requirements are generally more than just the rabies vaccine. Although, it's generally "accepted law" that only rabies vaccine is mandatory in the EU. But that's not the real situation when you start travelling etc.. In some EU countries where there is a perception that other EU countries are not up to their standard - there will be additional checks. And it's not easy to forge these documents - we have an EU pet passport, EU vaccination stickers with barcodes etc.. There are documents and some countries even require certified copies... Therefore I believe that the risk of our pet dogs from these countries in the EU/EEA + Switzerland infecting American dogs are really, really low when they enter.

I can tell you from personal experience that since Turkey isn't part of the EU/EEA + Switzerland countries they are treated very differently. Turkish rescue dogs being imported into the EU is not something that I have heard of. At least not in countries like Norway, Germany, France.. And I genuinely wonder why that's the case? Why are our American counterparts having to take on this burden alone? I appreciate that Americans are very thoughtful, generous and kind people but I know so are Europeans as well.. We are willing to fight for causes and help - it's particularly concerning to me that we aren't even aware of such a situation in general even though we are much closer geographically 🤦🏽‍♀️
 

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A few thoughts, as there seems to be some lack of interest in facts getting in the way of social media hyperbole.

The GRCA issued a position paper in 2021 with a significant reliance on a Fox News story citing the National Animal Interest Alliance as a primary source. I would suggest readers of the Forum spend some time looking into this group. Further, Section 2E of GRCA's bylaws states: "to encourage and assist rescue operations that involve the Golden Retriever." It does not speak to only domestic goldens, but rather to all goldens.

The problems created by importation are not due to reputable shelters but rather bad actors in the private sector. YGRR, for example, works directly with local shelters in various countries, not overseas breeders and individuals trying to make a buck. Imported dogs are examined and inoculated by local veterinarians before departure. Oscar has a passport indicating vaccinations administered, signed by a veterinarian.

After arrival in the United States, they are again examined by a domestic veterinarian and assessed for disease. YGRR also adheres to current CDC guidelines regarding rabies, as do all reputable rescues. If there are behavioral concerns they are attended to by a certified behaviorist and any medical needs are addressed. I can authoritatively state that YGRR is not making a profit on most of the Goldens that come to Yankee, where thousands of dollars will be spent on medical needs alone. The dogs are also chipped and housed in a state-approved on-site quarantine facility before being released to the general kennel population.

So, if one is interested in purchasing a golden from a reputable domestic breeder, that is terrific. No one is interfering with one's right to do so. But please take a breath if, at the same time, you feel the need to malign the work of responsible rescues who are saving goldens no matter where they might come from, and your fellow citizens who feel called to rescue these innocent souls and provide them with a loving, safe, and healthy life.
 

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Another issue would be
PART II
If you read PART 1 , you understand that we live in such a huge but also that small world. Before discussing the DOG IMPORT ISSUE to US, we shall first define the terms of democracy, free will, free trade, responsibility and freedom. We are linked to eachother via trade, via tourism, via social events, arts, exhibitions, fairs….. I just read on a reputable business turkish website(!) that there was an event of textile union of Turkish businessmenJ You are all wondering why I put a smiley here. Their content creators will understandJAll the countries in the 21st century import /export even franchise / outsource other textiles,paintings, machinery, guns, technology including CHIPS even brains / talents especially US starting WW2. We have UN, NATO, BREXIT, EU, IMF even lately Shanghai One. We are soo much interwined and entangled. Both in Positive and Negative Way.

What do we do ? Not travel ? Not trade ? Not lending/borrowing Money ? Not invest ? Do we shut down Central Bank ? Moodys? Not travel to Europe or US for college studies even at least for learning language? We need eachother both to elevate but also to destroy eachother. This is a never ending chess game.

US DOGS:

I very well understand and I even feel frustrated , heartbroken and disappointed with each dog getting euthanized in US. Pittbulls which show no sign of aggression, huskies, rottweilers , GS , Labs and even small breeds that have been left out but has a minor / or major disease but cannot find any sponsor / pledge . Most of them cannot even find fosters because there is no place or some are paid fosters. US shelters are full. Especially also due to returned dogs which had been adopted during Covid period. There are around 400.000 pets euthanized yearly. It will not stop UNLESS very strict regulations better to say LAWS are passed in EVERY STATE . Florida, Texas dog ownership is out of control. However, in MA you rarely find dogs to adopt and they also rescue from other States. So, why is that?? It is due to CIVILIZATION & EDUCATION. With all the freedom and democratic choices are given, they are not exploited easily. Besides empathy, they have a sense of responsibility .They know to which extend their limits are, they think thrice before acting ( in this case purchasing / or adopting a pet and postcare) .

It was 17 years ago when I took care of puppies. Actually of the whole litter. We also had the mum dog. I cannot imagine myself at the moment adopting a puppy because it needs too much time, puppy excersises & training, physical and brain stimulation, patience… So most of the American families .

  • If they have no experience or underexperienced, they prefer to have as a first dog an easy going one. Most probably a Golden Retriever.
  • If they are working, as responsible owners they know they do not have enough time for puppy classes, potty training, every 4 hrs feeding, crating….. They will most probably adopt a dog above 3 years old. No more puppy craze or 2 years zoomies.
  • If they are above 60, they know that they cannot keep up with a dog which requires a lot of energy & play. They would prefer an adult or senior one
  • And there are families which are above 70. They want to be kind and adopt dogs who are seniors or with severe diseases.
  • And Cancer. The hemangiosarcoma nightmare. The average age of American dogs to get Lymphoma dropped to age 4. Scary. would personally be afraid to adopt an American Golden Retriever. Besides emotional reasons which is signing a contract with Universe for owning a dog which may die in your arms without even showing a symptom although she/he just had had a check up two months ago,.
  • Again Cancer even with dog insurance is a very but very costly treatment if you opt to fight. Many supplements, holistic & TCM treatments are not covered by insurance. And they are costly.
  • So where are those Golden Retrievers in US above especially 1-2 years old ? No Golden Retrievers of such ages to adopt. A breed which is less likely to be dumped and if they are , immediately removed by a rescue even before ending/or the moment end up in a shelter. There is a scarce of Golden Retrievers in US. It is the least abondoned breed. And we shall all be happy for it. And there are thousand in countries such as Romania, Turkey, Egypt, Far East. Why encourage people to breed more local GRs where there is a demand for past 2 years old , adult or seniors. It does not make sense.
And I do not know you but no one on earth can dictate me which car to drive, what brands to wear, which supplement to opt for. Although I have more chance to acquire CS from Europe, I prefer the American One “ Sovereign”. I love Oscar de la Renta, Ralph Lauren but I also love Valentino ,Balmain,… Dior. You may prefer a Volvo where as your neighbour an Audi. You may invest in restoration of a Colonial House in US or even a chateau in France. You may buy an American artpiece or invest into a Far Eastern One? Even with US / Ukraine war going on, you may still want read russian books , listen to Russian composers . I just discovered a designer that I loved very much . And they happen to be Ukranian. Nearby lives a family. The lady is Russian I was told by their son. Now they said Ukranian. We have a common stray dog under our care. In this case, I won’t care from where they are as long as we show compassion to a RIGHT cause WITHOUT SECOND AGENDA, the well being of an animal in need .

No one can tell me which breed to adopt also. Besides ECS as family dogs, I also had adopted GRs, GS, ES, mixed / no breeds…. I never adopted a forbidden breed but fostered a deaf dogo for 6 .They are soooooo lovely. I wish we could adopt them all. However, you have to have the right house, lifestyle, household dogs in order to adopt one. 2 of my dogs were quite bitchy & witchy ( an ECS and a mixed 5 star street dog) and I had to keep them always separate. A third one which could be triggered by them would not be wise. I have a hound mix which I cannot much socialize with the rest of the senior pack because he is like a Monkey .He is senior of puppy energy & spirit . He just keeps bothering them ( unwillingly) just by jumping and having zoomies most of the time. So, if I ever adopt a dog, will be most probably of very calm nature, adult to senior to get along with the rest of the pack. So, I understand people if they are into some specific breeds or they prefer small dogs due to their lifestyle.

While most of the pet owners in civilized & culturally advanced States are good pawrents, unfortunately in some American States they are not.They have a dog . That’s it. Not considered as a family member. Vaccinations, HW preventatives, spaying / neutering is not common ( typical Turkey). Most of the rescues operate mainly in their own States because there is a limit to network & volunteers & members which can follow up the dogs homed. It is a 10-15 years long follow up. And some rescued operate as Solo Breed Rescues which is understandable because they are specialized in the characteristics of the breed, from the behavioural assesment, issues to the health issues they are prone to. They are experts and remain constantly uptodate with the advancements in pet health. They try to cover a niche segment where they raise the bar constantly. It is a choice.

We cannot again blame any rescue or pet owner for their choices.

If there is anyone or any organization to hold responsible for , they are ;

  • CDC which should have already implemented strict rules & regulations for dog Import or dog transport from southern States including, vector born diseases, CPV /CDV, Rabies Titer which had been requested by EU from non EU countries since years .
  • Animal Services which should take every dog abuse / neglect into consideration .
  • Dog / pet ownership shall be allowed via permit which can be obtained only by fulfilling certain standards.
  • Ban of breeding / backyard breeding of risky ( although not) breeds and fine if they do. Again the role of animal services.
There is a price of living in a democratic country which is not to endanger the well being & safety of other people, the habitat and its main and authentic citizens which are nature & animals.

In my case,it means not harming the American Dogs. I am against of importing mixed breeds to US which are constantly on Euth List I would never endanger the chance of an American Dog getting adopted, by adding additional dogs to the homeless American dog population. Golden Retrievers as explained above are out of that list .If a mixed breed rescue wishes to really help dogs, they can pull from their local shelters ( in some cases Euth risk states) although it is of course subject to pledges & funds and with current economy & number of abandoned dog it is getting more and more impossible. Same valid for an American family. If they wish to rescue a mixed breed or endangered breed, their priority shall be adopting from their local shelter than outsource.

I believe to have explained in detail why GOLDEN RETRIEVERS including a couple of other breed IMPORTATION by responsible rescues do not cause any threat to Homeless American Population and we stand for strict pet health imporation regulations of CDC.
Another issue would be
I appreciate you taking the time to write this response 😊 I think you have a lot of good ideas and thoughts on why there should be precautions/safeguards etc. and for the most part I agree with everything. I have not spent enough time or lived in the US to criticize Americans, their laws or their dog ownership practices 😬 But I just wanted to clarify/illuminate how things work regarding the European/EU/EEA+Switzerland though. Because I have lived there quite long and understand some of your concerns...

The EU is complicated. The reason I say that is due to my work travel back there (and I did travel extensively within the EU/EEA + Switzerland with my golden retriever. Switzerland is special and doesn't belong to the EU/EEA but aligns itself generally). Based on our lifestyle, Ramses has taken all the core and quite a number of non core vaccinations to avoid some of the situations you are describing as a precaution and most importantly be in compliance with individual nation laws in the EU/EEA + Switzerland. The vet and his breeder were consulted and he didn't get any side effects due to these vaccines. Of course, I understand and keep in mind that some other dogs might have reactions to them. I did not just transport my golden to the US by myself. Ramses came with the aid of a pet company that was certified in the EU and have certified partners in the US - specifically to avoid any problems in the US (granted, we might just have been a bit more paranoid) and the pet company was actually a Swiss company. Ramses and I used to cross the border pretty much daily to Switzerland for work and they do check a lot of details for pets crossing as well... We entered the US from Switzerland. Regardless of whether the American authorities were going to be tough on us, the Swiss ones were always going to be doing that.

In Switzerland and EEA countries like Norway, Lichtenstein, Iceland etc standards can be different or even a lot stricter than the EU. We live in the triborder area (France, Germany and Switzerland) in France where crossing into any of these borders takes about 30 mins from our home. Having lived in various countries in Europe for 14 years, and being Singaporean by nationality - that means I'm constantly doing something bureaucratic just for myself to enter/live/work any combination of both. My work permit in Switzerland does not give me the right to live in France. My marriage to my French spouse on the other hand does not enable me to work in Switzerland. My German student permit theoretically allowed me to work in Sweden as an intern but the Swedish authorities wanted me to get their own permit because Sweden does not recognize the German language. The Swedish permit allowed me to live and work in Norway because Norway and Sweden are Nordic countries and they have their own fancy Nordic group... I have so many experiences like that - all very complicated! 😂 And the same thinking boils down to the pets and where they are entering from or where their origin is from.

EU laws are not nation state laws. EU laws are transposed into nation state laws. There's a deadline when a law is passed for nation states to transpose it into their nation laws so there's no choice once a law is adopted in the EU. When a law is adopted by the EU, it could be interpreted differently in Germany vs Netherlands. For example, the Germans could go further or be stricter in their transposition of their law than the Dutch for the same EU law. This varies among countries but the crux of the EU law is transposed into the nation law once adopted. Secondly, there is a vast economic/social differences/ideology/attitudes between Northern vs Southern Europeans.... Eastern vs Western Europeans. I've lived in different countries in Europe for 14 years. When you have been there so long, and done everything in a few countries you get a very good idea of how the EU/EEA + Switzerland work. Switzerland which is not in the EU/EEA is very, very, very, very strict on a lot of things. It is a pain in the literal butt to do anything. I know that personally because I also work in a laboratory and when I approve ordering chemicals from the lab technicians - that means filling up a lot of forms, making sure they are in compliance and signing them all! Even if it's just buying them from neighboring France. Otherwise, you don't get the chemicals and for a couple of days we can't run any experiments. So I have to plan everything in advance. And no, you can't just bring them from France even if its right by the border. One can't even just bring a simple metal pipe from France to Switzerland - that's illegal. Every thing requires huge documentation (only in German/French/Italian/Romansch not English). I thought I had a good handle on documentation since I started my undergrad in Germany - where it's already very strict with rules and bureaucracy just to study/live there. But even Germans would tell you the Swiss take it to another level. So you can imagine how strict they are regarding pets entering their country. Standards in Western and Northern Europe which belong to the EU are very strict on quality control as well and will have nation laws that are even stricter. To fully understand any particular nation's laws, it is essential to also understand their native language well and speak it fluently. Because things are more detailed there than what is on the internet in English. I therefore can't speak much for how things are done in Italy, Spain, Greece Portugal etc - although I have visited, I have not lived there, am not fluent in those languages and feel it unfair to categorize my thoughts on that. I am aware though that certain illnesses pertaining to dogs are more endemic there due to climate.

As for people entering the EU .. there are rules regarding vaccinations based on the country you're coming from. In Singapore where I'm originally from, rules and regulations are very strict. Vaccinations are generally mandatory for children from birth - you don't get a choice on whether you want to opt out for it or only some of them unless for a very good medical reason. There are consequences in Singapore for not vaccinating your child and there are harsh penalties for that. Even with that in mind, I was advised to bring all my health booklets when I entered Germany as a student. My older brother who attended a different German university 2 years prior to me was told the same. Did they check? No.. On the other hand a couple of Romanian students attending the same German university was asked to provide proof of all the vaccinations they had done from birth before entering. Keep in mind that Romania is part of the EU...

Many European teens now enter American schools for a year or so on exchange programs. They are required to show a list of vaccinations because the American schools require them - I am aware of this because a friend in my neighbourhood told me about it. She has sent two kids to the US and it was mandatory for them to show this vaccines to the school to attend classes even though it was not a requirement by the US immigration/customs authorities to enter the US legally. The EU works a lot on reciprocity agreements much like the US and other countries do. And also based on a level of risk the third nation in particular poses, what the standards are in the particular country etc,.. And certain countries/nationalities have perceived better standards, better partnerships which results in speedier processing. However, in practice it seems to me that there are countries or even places that require you to show more proof even from individuals..

I don't know of any Western European/Northern European country that would not take quality standards seriously. For instance, keeping a dog in a waiting area in an airport where they could potentially infect another dog. There will be serious consequences if that actually happens. Every dog/pet that enters a waiting area in an airport in an EU country will have to show their pet records and these requirements are generally more than just the rabies vaccine. Although, it's generally "accepted law" that only rabies vaccine is mandatory in the EU. But that's not the real situation when you start travelling etc.. In some EU countries where there is a perception that other EU countries are not up to their standard - there will be additional checks. And it's not easy to forge these documents - we have an EU pet passport, EU vaccination stickers with barcodes etc.. There are documents and some countries even require certified copies... Therefore I believe that the risk of our pet dogs from these countries in the EU/EEA + Switzerland infecting American dogs are really, really low when they enter.

I can tell you from personal experience that since Turkey isn't part of the EU/EEA + Switzerland countries they are treated very differently. Turkish rescue dogs being imported into the EU is not something that I have heard of. At least not in countries like Norway, Germany, France.. And I genuinely wonder why that's the case? Why are our American counterparts having to take on this burden alone? I appreciate that Americans are very thoughtful, generous and kind people but I know so are Europeans as well.. We are willing to fight for causes and help - it's particularly concerning to me that we aren't even aware of such a situation in general even though we are much closer geographically 🤦🏽‍♀️

Thank you for the input. I have studied and lived in Switzerland quite a bit of time:)) Yes, there are hundreds even thousands of Turkish dogs rescued and transported to Europe including Belgium, Germany , Austria and Holland. Just to inform you that there are two Swiss rescues who rescue and import dogs from Turkey including Golden Retrievers. One is based in French Canton / Geneva and the other in German Canton. And the transportation of turkish dogs to Germany started at a much earlier date than to US. I do not know the rescues who import dogs from Turkey to Germany but I do know the ones from Italy to Germany , Switzerland and UK. In the meantime, there are British rescues who also rescue from Turkey ( including GRs) . Those rescues transport the dogs by Van and the same resuce also rescue Romanian Dogs. Although Romania may claim to be a EU community, unfortunately the shelters show the opposite. The dogs both in shelters and on the street are in horrible condition and their health requirements are not met /or below standards. Therefore, I very well understand why your friend's dogs were approached in a skeptical manner.
 

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Thank you for the input. I have studied and lived in Switzerland quite a bit of time:)) Yes, there are hundreds even thousands of Turkish dogs rescued and transported to Europe including Belgium, Germany , Austria and Holland. Just to inform you that there are two Swiss rescues who rescue and import dogs from Turkey including Golden Retrievers. One is based in French Canton / Geneva and the other in German Canton. And the transportation of turkish dogs to Germany started at a much earlier date than to US. I do not know the rescues who import dogs from Turkey to Germany but I do know the ones from Italy to Germany , Switzerland and UK. In the meantime, there are British rescues who also rescue from Turkey ( including GRs) . Those rescues transport the dogs by Van and the same resuce also rescue Romanian Dogs. Although Romania may claim to be a EU community, unfortunately the shelters show the opposite. The dogs both in shelters and on the street are in horrible condition and their health requirements are not met /or below standards. Therefore, I very well understand why your friend's dogs were approached in a skeptical manner.
The problems created by importation are not due to reputable shelters but rather bad actors in the private sector.
There might be reputable rescues rescuing these dogs in Europe - I know there are some ongoing right now with the dogs (any breed) in Ukraine due to the war. Unfortunately, Turkey does not fit in that same criteria (as Ukraine at this moment). The fact that there is only one rescue in each canton in Switzerland reinforces my point as to how anything/anyone/any pet entering Switzerland will need documentation and require very extensive checks. It is very tightly controlled. I find it very difficult to believe that Switzerland accepts anything without that. I am pretty sure that Switzerland can afford to take in more and set much up more shelters if necessary but will not.

Same goes for the EU/EEA+. Human or pet entering. We are definitely not being inundated with such arrivals or rescues from the private sector in Turkey as OscarsDad mentioned.. Mainly due to regulations. We would otherwise have much more options in our local shelters - but unfortunately that is not the case..

Dogs imported for commercial reasons or requiring a change of ownership (such as rescue animals), should be imported under the Balai Directive (EU Regulation 92/65/ECC) and should therefore have an Intra Trade Animal Health Certificate. -- This would be the base EU regulation for rescue dogs entering EU to meet before any other existing individual EU nation law (As I described above on how EU laws actually get transposed; one EU nation transposing the law being more/less strict than another). The drawback for the EU would be how it is transposed because sometimes we lack uniformity. I have a little bit of knowledge on EU law as I have studied and practiced it a little bit 😉

*Sorry if this wasn't clear, I was actually not talking about a Romanian pet. I was talking about inoculations received by a Romanian person (human) vs me. With regards to health criteria of people travelling abroad that you had raised in your earlier post 😉 Which is a very valid point you raised but again seems to be a case by case basis in my opinion.

My comments are in no way a criticism of legitimate rescue dogs arriving in the Europe/USA.. I am terribly sorry if they came across that way or offended anybody it was not my intention. I was just trying to demonstrate how we are trying to combat that issue on the other side of the Atlantic regarding the unscrupulous rescue organizations and also the "vetting" processes that are in place. I personally think that dogs and reputable organizations that have demonstrated and done all the veterinary checks etc should be considered as worthy dogs, not harming the dog population in individual countries and I am in no way criticizing them at all...
 

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There might be reputable rescues rescuing these dogs in Europe - I know there are some ongoing right now with the dogs (any breed) in Ukraine due to the war. Unfortunately, Turkey does not fit in that same criteria (as Ukraine at this moment). The fact that there is only one rescue in each canton in Switzerland reinforces my point as to how anything/anyone/any pet entering Switzerland will need documentation and require very extensive checks. It is very tightly controlled. I find it very difficult to believe that Switzerland accepts anything without that. I am pretty sure that Switzerland can afford to take in more and set much up more shelters if necessary but will not.

Same goes for the EU/EEA+. Human or pet entering. We are definitely not being inundated with such arrivals or rescues from the private sector in Turkey as OscarsDad mentioned.. Mainly due to regulations. We would otherwise have much more options in our local shelters - but unfortunately that is not the case..

Dogs imported for commercial reasons or requiring a change of ownership (such as rescue animals), should be imported under the Balai Directive (EU Regulation 92/65/ECC) and should therefore have an Intra Trade Animal Health Certificate. -- This would be the base EU regulation for rescue dogs entering EU to meet before any other existing individual EU nation law (As I described above on how EU laws actually get transposed; one EU nation transposing the law being more/less strict than another). The drawback for the EU would be how it is transposed because sometimes we lack uniformity. I have a little bit of knowledge on EU law as I have studied and practiced it a little bit 😉

*Sorry if this wasn't clear, I was actually not talking about a Romanian pet. I was talking about inoculations received by a Romanian person (human) vs me. With regards to health criteria of people travelling abroad that you had raised in your earlier post 😉 Which is a very valid point you raised but again seems to be a case by case basis in my opinion.

My comments are in no way a criticism of legitimate rescue dogs arriving in the Europe/USA.. I am terribly sorry if they came across that way or offended anybody it was not my intention. I was just trying to demonstrate how we are trying to combat that issue on the other side of the Atlantic regarding the unscrupulous rescue organizations and also the "vetting" processes that are in place. I personally think that dogs and reputable organizations that have demonstrated and done all the veterinary checks etc should be considered as worthy dogs, not harming the dog population in individual countries and I am in no way criticizing them at all...
Just to add. A dog with an owner in US or EUROPE does not mean that the dog is properly cared and their owners takes every precaution and follow health guidelines. As explained earlier, US and Europe are also full of dogs which are neglected, are HW+, Leishmania & Ehrlichia, Anaplasma + . People travel. Especially , in summer many Europeans travel . They travel from any part of Europe including UK to Spanish island, to Cote, to South Italy. Back & forth. It is not only dog import or dog rescue . There are so many dogs I have seen in European resort areas where they travelled from North or Middle Europe the dog not having an antirepeller collar or not on flea preventative. Ownership of pet shall be via special permit. It is not a problem only of rescue dogs.
 
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