- Status
1 - 20 of 148 Posts
Joined
·
10,846 Posts
Pedigree: Traditions Golddigger and https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1847055 sibling info is worrisome, but dam of this bitch has no clearances so there is where the risk is pointed out. I presume that the dam Traditions is the "foundation" of this program only from her name, so consider shaky foundation!
so I was all prepared from having read the site and disagreeing with only a few things, and seeing the first bitch linked above's info, which although risky is at least complete til I check out #2 from their 'our dams' page...
Pedigree: Traditions Gingergold and https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1930344
and I dk if they are attributing the fair hips from some imaginary eval they may have done or not but this bitch does not have fair (passing) hips as stated on their site. She prelim'd mild (which is dysplastic) and failed elbows. She is a sibling to the first bitch.
This is what happens when one builds a whole program on a bitch who should never have been bred as is evidenced by her own lack of health clearances and
the offspring's shaky OFA record. And no matter what, this on their site is a lie:
Elbows: Normal
Hips: OFA Fair
because of this I'm not going to go through the rest- it's a waste of time since lying on one's site to me is a reason to ignore.
so I was all prepared from having read the site and disagreeing with only a few things, and seeing the first bitch linked above's info, which although risky is at least complete til I check out #2 from their 'our dams' page...
Pedigree: Traditions Gingergold and https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1930344
and I dk if they are attributing the fair hips from some imaginary eval they may have done or not but this bitch does not have fair (passing) hips as stated on their site. She prelim'd mild (which is dysplastic) and failed elbows. She is a sibling to the first bitch.
This is what happens when one builds a whole program on a bitch who should never have been bred as is evidenced by her own lack of health clearances and
the offspring's shaky OFA record. And no matter what, this on their site is a lie:
Elbows: Normal
Hips: OFA Fair
because of this I'm not going to go through the rest- it's a waste of time since lying on one's site to me is a reason to ignore.
Thank you. I will stay away from this breeder.
Joined
·
5,239 Posts
If you're set on a so-called English Creme, I can't help you. But if you want an ethically bred Golden Retriever in Washington that might be any shade of gold, I'm going to refer you to Rich and Kym Anton at SweetGold Farm Golden Retrievers. I know them well. I've used one of their studs. And I'm probably going to be adding one of their puppies to my program later this year. So you can tell I have a lot of respect for them.
And they can refer you to other breeders in the area, as well.
But you're not going to get any of that English Creme stuff. Here's one of their boys, a fine dude named Ace.
![875942]()
And they can refer you to other breeders in the area, as well.
But you're not going to get any of that English Creme stuff. Here's one of their boys, a fine dude named Ace.
Thanks DanaRuns. No, I am not looking for an english creme. I have reached out to SweetGold Farm. Hopefully, they will respond with a positive news
Joined
·
41 Posts
Well, here we are in Sept. 2022 and I finally find this thread. There are other breeders who do not publish all of their dog's health testing, or do not even do all the testing, or who breed dogs with health test results that can be IMPROVED UPON WITH SELECTIVE BREEDING, such as hips "Goldie" has an OFA CHIC number and "Ginger" worked for two breeders and was a stellar dam with all healthy, beautiful puppies with correct dispositions. I have been raising Goldens for many years (and alpacas for 25 years) and have produced approximately 300 Golden puppies with only one with a serious anomaly (a heart shunt) and none with serious hip problems and none reported with cancer. I have also raised many English Springer Spaniel and American Cocker Spaniel puppies, prior to Goldens. I strive to make literally EVERYTHING about my dogs better with each generation. Eyes, hearts, hips and elbows are just a few of many things that responsible breeders should take into consideration. Many of my puppies have gone on to be breeders for other people. And remember, all of these "English Cream" Golden Retrievers with the European pedigrees are very much related to each other with common ancestors and one in particular used repeatedly, "Toffer" Cabus Christopher. These European Goldens are true treasures, but they are not without faults that all serous breeders should learn to recognize and improve upon. Also, I do the gentetic diagnostic testing and stand behind the puppies that I sell with a three year health guarantee and a very fair two page contract. If you have any questions, please contact me. Laura - Owner, Tradition Kennel now in Chehalis, WA.
Joined
·
41 Posts
Well, here we are in Sept. 2022 and I finally find this thread. There are other breeders who do not publish all of their dog's health testing, or do not even do all the testing, or who breed dogs with health test results that can be IMPROVED UPON WITH SELECTIVE BREEDING, such as hips "Goldie" has an OFA CHIC number and "Ginger" worked for two breeders and was a stellar dam with all healthy, beautiful puppies with correct dispositions. I have been raising Goldens for many years (and alpacas for 25 years) and have produced approximately 300 Golden puppies with only one with a serious anomaly (a heart shunt) and none with serious hip problems and none reported with cancer. I have also raised many English Springer Spaniel and American Cocker Spaniel puppies, prior to Goldens. I strive to make literally EVERYTHING about my dogs better with each generation. Eyes, hearts, hips and elbows are just a few of many things that responsible breeders should take into consideration. Many of my puppies have gone on to be breeders for other people. And remember, all of these "English Cream" Golden Retrievers with the European pedigrees are very much related to each other with common ancestors and one in particular used repeatedly, "Toffer" Cabus Christopher. These European Goldens are true treasures, but they are not without faults that all serous breeders should learn to recognize and improve upon. Also, I do the gentetic diagnostic testing and stand behind the puppies that I sell with a three year health guarantee and a very fair two page contract. If you have any questions, please contact me. Laura - Owner, Tradition Kennel now in Chehalis, WA.
Joined
·
41 Posts
Well, here we are in Sept. 2022 and I finally find this thread. There are other breeders who do not publish all of their dog's health testing, or do not even do all the testing, or who breed dogs with health test results that can be IMPROVED UPON WITH SELECTIVE BREEDING, such as hips "Goldie" has an OFA CHIC number and "Ginger" worked for two breeders and was a stellar dam with all healthy, beautiful puppies with correct dispositions. I have been raising Goldens for many years (and alpacas for 25 years) and have produced approximately 300 Golden puppies with only one with a serious anomaly (a heart shunt) and none with serious hip problems and none reported with cancer. I have also raised many English Springer Spaniel and American Cocker Spaniel puppies, prior to Goldens. I strive to make literally EVERYTHING about my dogs better with each generation. Eyes, hearts, hips and elbows are just a few of many things that responsible breeders should take into consideration. Many of my puppies have gone on to be breeders for other people. And remember, all of these "English Cream" Golden Retrievers with the European pedigrees are very much related to each other with common ancestors and one in particular used repeatedly, "Toffer" Cabus Christopher. These European Goldens are true treasures, but they are not without faults that all serous breeders should learn to recognize and improve upon. Also, I do the gentetic diagnostic testing and stand behind the puppies that I sell with a three year health guarantee and a very fair two page contract. If you have any questions, please contact me. Laura - Owner, Tradition Kennel now in Chehalis, WA.
Joined
·
41 Posts
Lastly, it's just disheartening that someone can post such things on line without ever communicating to the person they smear.
You aren’t being smeared. Someone posting verifiable facts about the health testing (or lack thereof) of dogs in your breeding program, despite them being facts with a negative connotation, is not smearing. If you don’t want the negative, factual aspects of your breeding program to be discussed, maybe you should improve upon what you’re doing.
Joined
·
5,888 Posts
Was there something @Prism Goldens said that was untrue?
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
I'm a mere amateur compared to Robin, but everything she posted appears to be factual according to the info currently available on OFA and K9 Data. Not sure what credibility alpacas and others dog breeds gives Laura, but falsehoods certainly wouldn't seem to enhance that credibility.....
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
I have a question pertaining to this..... it appeared to me earlier that golddiigger and gingergold both have expired eye clearances that were done in 2016 and not updated or at least not sent in. When a dog has CHIC certification, is there a point where it is expired/rescinded or otherwise invalid if eye certification is not updated?
Joined
·
1,216 Posts
I believe OFA used to color the CHIC logo purple (?) when up to date and gray when a clearance expired, or something like that, but I think they stopped keeping track of that a little while back.
CHIC also applies even if a clearance is failed, as long as it’s posted, so it’s not something I pay attention to at all, personally.
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
That's a bit frustrating.....it really should indicate all passing clearances and kept up to date. Otherwise it's worthless.....less experienced puppy buyers probably think it means something it doesn't.
Joined
·
1,216 Posts
It’s some sort of a participation trophy, I suppose. The goal is to encourage more breeders to complete all necessary testing and post it on a publicly accessible database, because even if the clearances are failed, it can be helpful for others to know that information. But I agree that puppy buyers might assume that it means that all clearances are in place.
CHIC Program | OFA
The OFA created the CHIC Program by partnering with participating parent clubs to research and maintain information on the health issues prevalent in specific breeds.
ofa.org
Joined
·
41 Posts
Yes. Right from the start and lots of conjecture and they have still never spoken to me...and a few people have contacted me about this and said how sad it was that someone would post such things and never even talk to me about it. "Traditions" (aka Maya) did have health testing done for eyes (normal), heart (normal), hips ("Good") and elbows(normal). She was my first Golden dam. Back then those results were not published to the general public, but they are available. Maya was (and is still) an exceptional Golden. She passed for eyes, heart, hips and elbows and Paw Print genetic testing. You could not ask for a better Golden personality. Everyone who met her said she was gorgeous and she was very fertile and an exceptional dam with great lactation for her large litters. I could not have asked for a better dam to start breeding Goldens. Her daughters, Golddigger (Goldie) and Gingergold (Ginger) are both retired now and were both exceptional producers for two breeders. (Note: I have 26+ years experience breeding several species of animals.) I still have Maya's granddaughters in my program. I have never had a customer update me with any hip problems, nor any cancer. And, in all the years and all the puppies I've sold so far, only one had to be replaced and the veterinarians said it was a fluke thing...not genetic...and so the replacement was outside the scope of the contract guarantee, but I offered them a replacement puppy anyway. Also, my Goldens breed naturally...I don't take them to a vet to get AI'd. Please ask and talk to your veterinarians in depth about hips...you'll learn a lot! It's only fair and considerate to talk with someone BEFORE making public comments like those above.. I have researched other breeders and dogs too and there are plenty of breeding dogs out there without complete OFA results...shall we slam everyone who has dogs like this? (...No.) Myself and the other breeders I work with who also have large programs...we are all working very hard to do the best we can to produce better dogs with each generation and we stand behind our production with solid guarantees. I have been having a real good conversation the last few days with a potential customer who read this thread and is coming here in a couple days to look at pups. I very much look forward to talking to other people who would like to hear what I have to say about dog breeding. Peace everyone, Laura.
Joined
·
129 Posts
I'm not sure why you're protesting so much. Just post the certifications on OFA and you wouldn't have issues or posts like this. Goldenprism only posted facts. She didn't smear or slander you. She didn't need to talk to you because it's your fault you didn't post on OFA.
Joined
·
3,766 Posts
Help us understand why you are alluding to OFA results not being available “back then”, when your girl was born in 2014. Full and verifiable health certifications were available to you.
As an example here is a boy from 1997 with full health certifications.
Advanced Search | OFA
ofa.org
Advanced Search | OFA
ofa.org
Hips and elbows have to be sent in to OFA to be graded. The fact that they are not listed can mean only one of three things - 1) X-rays were never submitted for grading (aka untested), 2) X-rays were submitted but underage and therefore are preliminary reports that should not responsibly be bred on nor called a certification, or 3) X-rays were submitted but the owner did not authorize the failed results to be posted publicly. None of those facts require anyone to speak to anyone to confirm that appropriate health certifications which were available and stated in the OFA CHIC/GRCA COE are not there on OFA.
If a puppy buyer asking for a review of a breeder’s dogs then YES absolutely point out the missing health certifications. That puppy buyer is asking for help and if you have more knowledge about verification of health certifications, I would hope you would feel it is right thing to do. I hope you are not meaning that you would intentionally keep information like that to yourself when the puppy buyer knows they are at risk of their ignorance being exploited and is asking for help.
Help me understand how these facts in your mind equates to better with each generation.
Traditions Maya (YOB 2014) - OFA shows only an expired eye certification.
Advanced Search | OFA
ofa.org
Traditions Joy (YOB 2016)
Missing hip certification when another dog from traditions was tested the same day and got both hip and elbow certifications. There are two eye certifications which seems to indicate the breeder knows they expired and needed to be redone but has not kept up with recertification.
Advanced Search | OFA
ofa.org
Traditions Grace (YOB 2017)
This dog at one point had full and verifiable health certifications showing the breeder knows how to get them. This was the dog tested the same day as Joy and Grace was able to receive OFA hip and elbow certifications. Unfortunately, the breeder has chosen not pursue annual recertification for eyes.
Advanced Search | OFA
ofa.org
Traditions Rose (YOB 2018)
No hip or elbow certifications and an expired eye certification.
Advanced Search | OFA
ofa.org
Traditions Sasha (YOB 2020)
No appropriate OFA certifications. Her eyes are expired and her heart is deficient as it was not done by a Cardiologist.
Advanced Search | OFA
ofa.org
Traditions Noah (YOB 2020)
He failed OFA hip certification with a grade of borderline. Also his heart certification is deficient as it was not done by a Cardiologist and the eye certification is expired.
Advanced Search | OFA
ofa.org
This was just your foundation girl and those dogs you are advertising puppies from recently.
This pattern doesn’t seem to me to indicate a focus on improvement when ...
- Eye certifications are not being done annually as they should
- Heart certifications are no longer being done through the appropriate Cardiologist specialist
- Hip and elbow certifications are missing
- Certification failed borderline dog and a dog (Joy) where the missing certification can reasonably be assumed as a Dysplasia result that the breeder chose not to disclose by initialing the release in the form are being included in your breeding program.
I hope that buyer stops back by the forum to see the OFA results for themselves. They deserve to make an informed decision and know the lacks that are happening in the health certifications of these dogs.
1 - 20 of 148 Posts
- Status
Join the discussion
