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Hello all,

I'm looking for GR English female puppy. Has anyone heard of this breeder: Golden Reflection Kennel Golden Reflection Kennel--English Golden Retrievers.

The parents of the next litter are Am/Can Ch Goldtreve Sydney Traveler and Golden Reflection Sweet Inspiration.

Please could you advise whether you heard about the breeder / can recommend this breeder?

I am located in Northern California. Willing to travel / drive to 10 hrs to pick up the puppy.

Thank you

kanar
 

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I don't know this breeder personally. I do know of her but, I have not seen her out showing since I became really active in the International, UKC, and AKC in late 2010.

It looks like she received some Baby and Junior titles in the International shows. She also has achieved a CGC on one dog. So, I like that she has done some things with these dogs.

I personally like to see a little more done with breeding dogs. I know that a lot of folks with this style feel that they can not be competitive in AKC (conformation) but it would be nice to see some performance titles, taking advantage of the CCA program, competing in UKC or persuing adult titles in the International circuit. She could have more acheivements but, has not posted them. It would be a good conversation point.

For her expected litter she chose a Sire with a proven show record which I like and points to her dedication as a breeder to improve on what she has. I do not get the "in it for the money" feel from this breeding program like I have from other breeders.

I do really like the health testing on these dogs. Both parents of the prospective March litter have CHIC certificates and a current Eye clearences. I really like when a breeder has made the effort to record everything with OFFA and have a verified permenant identification for their dogs.:appl: In the case of this litter both parents have it and both grand parents on the dam's side have CHIC certs as well. On the dad's side the dogs are from Australia and I am not familiar with their clearance ratings.

If you are looking specifically for English Style, this is one of the best breeders I have seen in this Style in the US. If this were the style I preferred, Jo's up coming litter would be on my short list.;)
 

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The sire, Sydney is not my type at all, but he is gorgeous. He is very accomplished.
 

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The sire is the type of Golden many have said cannot be competitive in the American conformation ring. Apparently, there are exceptions to every rule....
What makes you say that? From his picture on k9data, he looks like a dog that could do quite well in an AKC show. Just being light-coated doesn't make him a different "type."
 

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What makes you say that? From his picture on k9data, he looks like a dog that could do quite well in an AKC show. Just being light-coated doesn't make him a different "type."
I'm not the one who said it. You know as well as I do that it frequently gets repeated here that English type Goldens (especially lighter ones) stand little chance of being competitive in this country. It's good to see that isn't always the case.


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I'm not the one who said it. You know as well as I do that it frequently gets repeated here that English type Goldens (especially lighter ones) stand little chance of being competitive in this country. It's good to see that isn't always the case.
Looking back at my post, it seems more contradictory to yours than I really meant it. I just wanted to clarify the use of the word type in this situation and point out that this isn't an issue of an English type dog doing well in the AKC ring. I don't think it really works to categorize different styles of Goldens like that, especially a dog from Australian champion parents who earned an AKC Am CH.
 

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Looking back at my post, it seems more contradictory to yours than I really meant it. I just wanted to clarify the use of the word type in this situation and point out that this isn't an issue of an English type dog doing well in the AKC ring. I don't think it really works to categorize different styles of Goldens like that, especially a dog from Australian champion parents who earned an AKC Am CH.
The owner of the dog categorizes them that way on their own website.


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On the front page they claim to be "Breeders of American and English Golden Retrievers."

Just to confirm. I like the dog. I wasn't trying to initiate a debate here.


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On the front page they claim to be "Breeders of American and English Golden Retrievers."

Just to confirm. I like the dog. I wasn't trying to initiate a debate here.
Right, but "type" was the issue I took with your first post about it, not "English." He doesn't seem to lack type, or be a "type of Golden" as you put it, in a way that would hurt him in the AKC ring. Do you know what I mean? That guy doesn't lack type or have the wrong type to win. He's light, but I don't see issues related to type that would make him undesirable.

I don't want a debate either, but I do find the concept of type pretty interesting and relevant, especially since the thread titles uses the term "English GR" and then the idea of type came up.
 

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Right, but "type" was the issue I took with your first post about it, not "English." He doesn't seem to lack type, or be a "type of Golden" as you put it, in a way that would hurt him in the AKC ring. Do you know what I mean? That guy doesn't lack type or have the wrong type to win. He's light, but I don't see issues related to type that would make him undesirable.

I don't want a debate either, but I do find the concept of type pretty interesting and relevant, especially since the thread titles uses the term "English GR" and then the idea of type came up.
I see....

Whether of not I used the proper word, I certainly wasn't trying to disparage English "style" Goldens. If you look, you'll see a significant number of dogs of that "style" in Bella's pedigree. It has always bothered me when others have stated categorically that they can't compete in the American conformation ring. There may be a preference among certain judges for one "style" over another, but its good to see that it isn't be case across the board. I happen to like both "styles."

I agree, this does look like a good option for the OP, as far as I can tell.


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Sydney is a beautiful dog who did well in the AKC ring because they were very careful about who they showed him to--the owner and handler were very selective and took him to breeder judges (sometimes making trips across the country to do it) who could appreciate his wonderful qualities, rather than to shows with generic all-breeder panels who wouldn't have known what to do with him! (I did much the same when Winter was younger and I was trying to point him in AKC--I picked my shows and judges, so we generally placed--wouldn't have happened if I had just gone to the most geographically convenient shows.) So it is possible to finish a quality English-style dog, but it takes dedication, knowledge of judges, and a willingness to travel.

He is certainly a quality dog, and one of his pups would likely make a lovely companion. And it looks like the owner of mom has also been conscientious about clearances (although I too would like to see some performance titles in there at least!)
 

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Sydney is a beautiful dog who did well in the AKC ring because they were very careful about who they showed him to--the owner and handler were very selective and took him to breeder judges (sometimes making trips across the country to do it) who could appreciate his wonderful qualities, rather than to shows with generic all-breeder panels who wouldn't have known what to do with him! (I did much the same when Winter was younger and I was trying to point him in AKC--I picked my shows and judges, so we generally placed--wouldn't have happened if I had just gone to the most geographically convenient shows.) So it is possible to finish a quality English-style dog, but it takes dedication, knowledge of judges, and a willingness to travel.

He is certainly a quality dog, and one of his pups would likely make a lovely companion. And it looks like the owner of mom has also been conscientious about clearances (although I too would like to see some performance titles in there at least!)
I absolutely love my Sydney/Smidge daughter :) She is the most retrieve and ball obsessed golden I have ever owned. If I get too tired to throw the ball for her, she will toss it around herself!

Obviously, Sydney is only part of the equation, but clearances do seem in order for the mother.

I am concerned about showing her eventually, assuming she turns out, because I know what it took to finish her father ;) and my resources are pretty limited. She looks a lot like her Dad but darker in color (although still my lightest girl by far).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It looks like we had a long debate :) Thank you very much for your feedback. I appreciate it very much and will try to get a puppy from the litter.

Thank you!

kanar
 

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As far as clearances, both litters look good. If you go with the litter sired by Da Vinci, you will need to ask to see his current eye exam dated with in the last year as his listed on OFFA is expired and his CHIC logo is now gray instead of red as I like to see.

On a personal note, I do not care for these two breeding quite as much as the previous breeding to Sydney. Though it looks like there is likely planning and care behind the pairings as niether are in danger of producing Ichthyosis, I would prefer to see more being done with these dogs. The only achievement listed for any of the four parents is a CGC which is great but I have earned it on two separate occasions with 7-8 month old puppies, the only two times I took it and I have only had Goldens for 3 years. Personally, I would love to see CGC's on all parents, perhaps some rally or obedience titles, certainly some International Championships which are completely achievable for dogs of this style and maybe even a UKC Championship. Perhaps they have more achievements but are not listed?

To give you an idea for pricing, this breeder is in Arizona and here there are two litters just confirmed pregnancies yesterday. For these litters the ALL parents are UKC Chmpion, Canadian Champion or American Champion with full clearances and they are priced $1800-$2000. They are American style but that is what you can expect for proven parents with full health screenings. How does the pricing of the litters who show close to no accomplishments for the parents compare? Are you willing to pay potentially more to a breeder who does less with their dogs simply because style or color? If so, that is certainly the best decision for you and you should go for it. I simply want to make sure you can make your best decision by giving you some information for comparison.

If you have not been to a Dog Show to see if you would like the Amerian Style in the show ring, there is one this weekend in Arizona at
Kachina Kennel Club
Event No: 2015080901
Camelback Ranch Facility
10710 W Camelback Rd.
Phoenix, AZ
Goldens show at 11:00 on Saturday and 9:00 op. Sunday.
I will be there and would love to meet you if you wanted to come.:)

Good luck in your search. No matter what puppy you bring home, that will be the best dog. :)
 

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LJack, thank you for your great response. You gave me a lot to think about.

I am in Southern California so I won't be able to attend the dog show in Arizona this weekend. Thank you for the offer though.
 
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