Generations in Dog Sports

2014 Views 68 Replies 19 Participants Last post by ArkansasGold, 7 d ago

myluckypenny

Discussion Starter · 17 d ago

I listened to a new podcast this morning and thought it was an appropriate conversation for this forum. The topic was discussing millennials in dog sports and was at least partially prompted by the Showsight article that really painted millennials in a rather unflattering light. I linked both below:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SNMoLEAJhi5qAdrzKt0rL?si=7r--FloCQSCTRTvk0LycdA

Showsight January 2023

Showsight - The Dog Show Magazine: January 2023 Edition, featuring articles, tips, and information provided with help from breeders, owners, handlers, club members, and judges who have agreed to share their expertise with us.

digital.showsightmagazine.com

So I'll pose the question that the article did "Where is our next generation of dog people coming from"? The article pretty much implied that millennials should be skipped and all efforts should be focused on those younger than us. Thoughts?

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Megora

· #61 · 11 d ago (Edited)

DevWind said:
Obedience was already very low on their list of priorities obviously. They seriously expected dogs to perform on sheets of plastic and tarps? I imagine that people stopped entering after that.

It was either that or put obedience out in a ring on the main floor (where everyone else, including agility showed). Obedience people demanded a side room.

DevWind said:
And the handlers made that decision to show there knowing that. Over the past few years, I haven't been able to make it to the obedience trials being held at conformation shows.

Exactly - but people did show their dogs and biggest complaints was not about bitches in season. It was the noise, crowds, spectators, and so on.

***ETA - I train at a location where bitches in season are allowed as long as it's not the weeks when they are flagging etc.... people may opt to keep their girlies at home because their brains are mush while they are in season, but generally speaking it is managed fine.

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AmberSunrise

· #62 · 11 d ago

ceegee said:
The BIS issue I mentioned in my original post on the topic is at agility trials. You can't equate agility with conformation. They just aren't comparable. In agility, the dogs are off-leash, often at a distance of 40 or 50 feet from the handler, performing complex exercises at speed, including jumping over obstacles and sprinting across a 12-inch-wide plank that is 4 feet from the ground. Distractions create an obvious safety issue: I've seen dogs break their legs falling off the dogwalk, for example. And in agility, if the dog makes a mistake because it's distracted, you can't just set up again and start over. You get one shot, and that's it.

I do get that, as time goes by, competitors are becoming increasingly demanding with respect to the competitive environment. But in agility, nobody is asking for pristine conditions. We train our dogs to compete in spite of nearby screaming children, moving vehicles, flapping tents, loud conversations, barking dogs and so on. Until now, however, what I would refer to as instinct-based distractions (BIS, food in the ring, squeaky toys in the warm-up area, etc.) have all been banned. That's why it's so illogical to me that our association would decide to allow BIS at trials, since they trigger one of the strongest instinctual reactions a dog can have. And they're not even requiring the BIS to wear panties in the ring. IMHO it's more than a simple training issue. It's creating a safety hazard and means that the playing field is no longer level for intact males.

It's up to the clubs to decide whether or not they will allow BIS at their trials, and you can bet that, moving forward, I'll be choosing trials that opt not to allow them.

I know my girls tend to sleep A LOT more while in season and how lowered energy levels - plus!! honestly they can be either snarky/protective or have one track minds while in receptive mode

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ceegee

· #63 · 11 d ago

Megora said:
But here is the crazy thing - have been at shows which have agility trials + obedience trials + conformation all in the same building and using the same grounds, camped out in the same grooming sections, etc..

I go to shows like that too. Conformation is in one area of the building, agility and obedience in another. The crating areas are separate, the sport dogs don't come into contact with the conformation dogs, and conformation dogs in season certainly don't use the agility ring or run over the obstacles or stand in line with us in the waiting area.

I don't show my dog in conformation so I really don't have an opinion about how things are done for that activity, and if I did, my opinion would be poorly informed and basically worthless because I know nothing about it. But I do compete in agility and have done so for more than a quarter of a century, and I can assure you that the presence of BIS in agility rings is problematical for the owners of intact males generally, and in particular for the owners of stud dogs.

I do know that conformation dogs are leashed for showing and agility dogs aren't. Next time you show an intact male in conformation, in the presence of a BIS, maybe try showing him off leash!

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ceegee

· #64 · 11 d ago

AmberSunrise said:
I know my girls tend to sleep A LOT more while in season and how lowered energy levels - plus!! honestly they can be either snarky/protective or have one track minds while in receptive mode

My Ruby was intact all her life, and while she wasn't allowed to trial when in season, we did still train at home, and I agree with you, her energy was totally different and she tended to be less tolerant of other dogs during those times. I would never have trialled her during her heats, even if it had been permitted.

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Megora

· #65 · 11 d ago (Edited)

ceegee said:
I do know that conformation dogs are leashed for showing and agility dogs aren't. Next time you show an intact male in conformation, in the presence of a BIS, maybe try showing him off leash!

My dogs are trained in obedience, so yes I could. And I'm not as good a trainer as many/most others. Problem with conf is they would be looking at me while off leash and you don't want that for conf.

Might add - during downtime between grooming and showing at most shows, I am training my dogs.

Last National I was prepping my dogs for obedience trials the following weeks and I was working open stuff with the one dog and novice stuff with the other. And working off leash around the grooming area. Meaning, I was getting about 30 feet away from my dogs while training.

Also on trips where I'm stuck at a hotel and the dogs are getting built up needs to run, I will take my guys out to open fields around the show grounds and let them run.

One situation I know I shared on this forum before - I was at fairgrounds for a golden specialty (same one that people were breeding dogs on the grounds LOL). I was staying at a hotel 1-2 days so of course my dogs were hyped up + I had a puppy (Glee). Turned them loose to run, not realizing there was a sinky spot out in the middle of the field that was basically a pond. Dogs jumped in. Got super muddy - about an hour before 2 of the 3 were showing again. <= I was pretty darn tickled that I managed to bathe 2 dogs and get them both dry in that amount of time, with time to spare.

*** I started us down this track because I'm somewhat guessing where the people who want to show bitches in season are coming from and or the thinking they are using. I would assume as everyone else might that even if AKC allowed bitches in season to run in trials, that people would opt to pull their dogs anyway if they were in full standing heat. But any absolute statements about hell breaking loose, or so on... I think it's somewhat important to consider that regardless of what is allowed by CKC or AKC, the individual clubs would have the ability to set their own rules, I'm sure.

I do know somewhat that the rules about bitches in season in AKC obedience, as example, are what they are not because of the girlies being around in the same crating areas, etc. It's because they do not want drippies or smelly sit spots in the ring. And the dogs cannot wear panties. I believe it falls under the rules of not allowing people to put clothing or other stupid stuff on their dogs in the ring.

If rules were changed to allow performance dogs to compete while in season, maybe rules would also be changed to make trainers use panties and so on. Which would be the same as at training clubs which allow bitches in season to train.

It's worth throwing out there vs making absolute statements. There's a lot of pet people out there who still believe that intact male dogs will go running every chance they get if there's a bitch in season within 9 miles from them.

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AmberSunrise

· #66 · 11 d ago

ceegee said:
My Ruby was intact all her life, and while she wasn't allowed to trial when in season, we did still train at home, and I agree with you, her energy was totally different and she tended to be less tolerant of other dogs during those times. I would never have trialled her during her heats, even if it had been permitted.

Also:

I know the breeder I work with will not schedule hip/elbow clearances if a girl is due to go into season and will cancel a scheduled clearance X-Ray appt if a girl goes into season.

The OFA does not recommend taking clearance X-Rays while a bitch is in season due to increased joint laxity.

So why would an owner/handler increase the risk of injury by having your girl run upper level obedience or agility for the sake of a ribbon?

OFA and PennHIP Clearances to Maintain Breed Standards at Slade

www.sladevet.com

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Tagrenine

· #67 · 11 d ago

AmberSunrise said:
Also:

I know the breeder I work with will not reschedule hip/elbow clearances if a girl is due to go into season and will cancel a scheduled clearance X-Ray appt if a girl goes into season.

The OFA does not recommend taking clearance X-Rays while a bitch is in season due to increased joint laxity.

So why would an owner/handler increase the risk of injury by having your girl run upper level obedience or agility for the sake of a ribbon?

OFA and PennHIP Clearances to Maintain Breed Standards at Slade

www.sladevet.com

View attachment 903121

I do not know why OFA says this. They have no research to back it up and can’t give you a seasonal hormone that affects laxity.
UPenn actually did follow bitches in season and evaluated their PH and OFA scores and found no significant change.

Owner & Breeder Information - Antech Imaging Services

info.antechimagingservices.com

http://siriusdog.com/effect-of-estrus-on-hip-conformation/amp/

This covers it somewhat well

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DevWind

· #68 · 11 d ago

Megora said:
I do know somewhat that the rules about bitches in season in AKC obedience, as example, are what they are not because of the girlies being around in the same crating areas, etc. It's because they do not want drippies or smelly sit spots in the ring. And the dogs cannot wear panties. I believe it falls under the rules of not allowing people to put clothing or other stupid stuff on their dogs in the ring. If rules were changed to allow performance dogs to compete while in season, maybe rules would also be changed to make trainers use panties and so on. Which would be the same as at training clubs which allow bitches in season to train.

Doubtful. Some people just don't care. I was recently at a trial where one of the judges caught a BIS on the grounds. She was walking through and spotted blood on the floor. Owner pretended not to know. (It was a short haired breed, they knew)

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ArkansasGold

· #69 · 7 d ago

Jumping to generations at rock/metal festivals… Somehow Deftones has become super popular with the 16-22 crowd and they do not understand pit etiquette at all. 😅 I felt like such a grouch, but after getting kicked in the head by crowd surfers recording for their socials for the 30th time… All the cell phones in the air made me appreciate Tool’s rule at their own shows for no cell phones.

Overall, it was super fun. We mostly went to see Tool, Chevelle, Avenged Sevenfold, and the Foo Fighters. We got a nice surprise that it was Queens of the Stone Age’s first show in 5 years and Josh’s enthusiasm was palpable. Every band seemed really happy to be there and played really hard.

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