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Generations in Dog Sports

2015 Views 68 Replies 19 Participants Last post by  ArkansasGold
I listened to a new podcast this morning and thought it was an appropriate conversation for this forum. The topic was discussing millennials in dog sports and was at least partially prompted by the Showsight article that really painted millennials in a rather unflattering light. I linked both below:



So I'll pose the question that the article did "Where is our next generation of dog people coming from"? The article pretty much implied that millennials should be skipped and all efforts should be focused on those younger than us. Thoughts?
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You joke, but here's my plans for next weekend. 馃槇馃槇馃槇
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Looks like a good time鈥鈥檇 be going home early Saturday though. Kiss is not my thing. You鈥檇 laugh if I told you why!
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So where did they say the Gen Xers are? I never see them anywhere. Most of my friends are at least 20 years older than me and there鈥檚 some who are young enough to be my kids. I need some Gen X friends馃槀

My thoughts鈥here are tons of millennials out there who are hard working and patient enough to work on difficult things but the ones ones who prefer instant gratification are much louder.
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Me! Last year Gen X!!!
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Me! Last year Gen X!!!
Theres 2 of us! I honestly thought you were younger
I guess technically I鈥檓 the first year of Gen Z, i would be showsight鈥檚 primary audience 馃槑
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I guess technically I鈥檓 the first year of Gen Z, i would be showsight鈥檚 primary audience 馃槑
You are the bomb no matter what gen you are in!
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You joke, but here's my plans for next weekend. 馃槇馃槇馃槇
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Enjoy the Foos! Currently listening to the "preparing Music for Concerts" from Sunday for the 4th time.
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Enjoy the Foos! Currently listening to the "preparing Music for Concerts" from Sunday for the 4th time.
They are my favorite band. LOVE the two new songs, even if they are sad.
They are my favorite band. LOVE the two new songs, even if they are sad.
Same! So jealous you get to go. Trying hard to get tickets for Va Beach, they sold out in 10 minutes!
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Solidly Gen X here (born in 鈥72)! I haven鈥檛 posted much as I鈥檓 still waiting for my pup (from a litter that will hopefully be born mid-June . . . waiting on ultrasound confirmation), but I鈥檓 sure I鈥檒l be on a lot more once he鈥檚 for sure coming home. Our plans include competing in obedience, maybe conformation, and therapy work. Maybe agility and scent work, as well.
Julie

So where did they say the Gen Xers are? I never see them anywhere. Most of my friends are at least 20 years older than me and there鈥檚 some who are young enough to be my kids. I need some Gen X friends馃槀
What is their plan except to diss millennials and talk about how lazy millennials are 馃槷鈥嶐煉
I smiled when I read this. My sport is agility and I'm in Canada, not the US, so my experience may not be representative. But I truly think the inter-generation misunderstandings go both ways.

Case in point, there's an ongoing discussion within our sport about whether or not bitches in season should be allowed to compete in trials (they are currently banned from trial sites). There are a lot of handlers with intact males who think their dogs may be distracted by the presence of BIS. In agility, distraction equals danger (falling off the dogwalk, hitting a jump wing at high speed, etc.). Other distractions such as food in the ring and squeaky toys around the ring are strictly prohibited, and opponents of the new measure think BIS should be treated in the same way since they are just as distracting to some dogs as squeaky toys are to others. However, there are a lot of younger people in the sport, mostly women, who are in favour of allowing BIS at trial sites based on "gender discrimination" grounds (it's unfair to ban dogs just because they're females). (Yes, I know, but it is what it is ...) Anyway, one of these people, a millennial who has been very vocal in support of allowing BIS, posted a comment in the group discussion to the effect that "we just have to wait for the old brigade to die off or leave the sport and take their "boys will be boys" attitude with them, then we can do what we want".

To cut a long story short, she got a history lesson. The "old brigade" is my generation, the very first one to rise up collectively against the "boys will be boys" attitude in the workplace and fight for the changes that she and her peers have benefited from. If ever there was a generation that doesn't think "boys should be boys", it would be mine (just ask my kid). The millennial in question just didn't know - she assumed. Well, she knows now. It came as something of a surprise to her. And equally surprisingly, it turns out she's not really in favour of allowing BIS at trials, she simply wants a way for them to be allowed at international team tryouts and that option hadn't been included in the association's survey. So we both learned something just because we took the time to talk to one another ...
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I think clicks have existed since forever. We get into our comfortable little groups and we don't let outsiders in unless they are like us, and we have something to gain by letting them join. Clicks kill groups.
We must learn to be welcoming of everyone and not exclusive. By alienating people, we may see the end of our clubs. Here's an example. I took classes at the local obedience club off and on for close to 20 years. It was after 20 years that someone finally asked if I'd be interested in joining the ob club. So I went to one meeting. I decided not to join, I heard far too many "pet person" comments. The world unfortunately is full of "us and them".

The back biting nastiness needs to end. It's part of the reason I haven't entered anything in the last couple of years. I just judge hunt tests and that's it. I don't get involved in club stuff anymore.

It makes me sad to hear all this crap between generations. I'm a gray haired boomer. Life is short, don't waste your time fighting like this.
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I smiled when I read this. My sport is agility and I'm in Canada, not the US, so my experience may not be representative. But I truly think the inter-generation misunderstandings go both ways.

Case in point, there's an ongoing discussion within our sport about whether or not bitches in season should be allowed to compete in trials (they are currently banned from trial sites). There are a lot of handlers with intact males who think their dogs may be distracted by the presence of BIS. In agility, distraction equals danger (falling off the dogwalk, hitting a jump wing at high speed, etc.). Other distractions such as food in the ring and squeaky toys around the ring are strictly prohibited, and opponents of the new measure think BIS should be treated in the same way since they are just as distracting to some dogs as squeaky toys are to others. However, there are a lot of younger people in the sport, mostly women, who are in favour of allowing BIS at trial sites based on "gender discrimination" grounds (it's unfair to ban dogs just because they're females). (Yes, I know, but it is what it is ...) Anyway, one of these people, a millennial who has been very vocal in support of allowing BIS, posted a comment in the group discussion to the effect that "we just have to wait for the old brigade to die off or leave the sport and take their "boys will be boys" attitude with them, then we can do what we want".

To cut a long story short, she got a history lesson. The "old brigade" is my generation, the very first one to rise up collectively against the "boys will be boys" attitude in the workplace and fight for the changes that she and her peers have benefited from. If ever there was a generation that doesn't think "boys should be boys", it would be mine (just ask my kid). The millennial in question just didn't know - she assumed. Well, she knows now. It came as something of a surprise to her. And equally surprisingly, it turns out she's not really in favour of allowing BIS at trials, she simply wants a way for them to be allowed at international team tryouts and that option hadn't been included in the association's survey. So we both learned something just because we took the time to talk to one another ...
I cannot imagine going around thinking that the previous generation of women supported 鈥渂oys will be boys鈥 in the workplace. Can鈥檛 be a woman in a male-dominated field without knowing that the previous generation of women fought hard for everything that we have today.

She needs to watch the documentary on Title IX called 37 words.
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Heheh.... I think this thread is getting into dangerous territory....

I will say though, I was standing at an obedience trial the other day where the judge (a man) gave first place to a male exhibitor and especially noted that the person was A MAN... as obedience is dominated by the ladies. As you can imagine, this caused chuckles all around, but the exhibitor thanked the judge for recognizing that he was a guy. LOL. For good measure, he was the only guy in the building other than the judge. All others were chicks. :)

The flip over to conformation class yesterday where I went to remind my Jovi that conformation IS a different sport than obedience and he should not look at my face the whole time, etc... a little over 1/2 the class was guys. Like not just guys, but they were young guys who were like 6 feet tall, etc... (giants per my short height). And just for good measure, a few of the girl dogs in class were wearing panties, so assumption is they were in season.

Back to that obedience trial - somebody had a girlie there who showed no signs of being in season.... but various dogs were CONVINCED she was in season. This means that after she was in the two rings, there were various dogs who NQ'd because they could not keep their noses off the floor and it disrupted a lot of things. <= Could be that was all just training related. But many training locations may not allow girlies in season on the grounds because there's dogs who don't just get very distracted, but they may also get aggressive. Or whatever.
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Case in point, there's an ongoing discussion within our sport about whether or not bitches in season should be allowed to compete in trials (they are currently banned from trial sites). There are a lot of handlers with intact males who think their dogs may be distracted by the presence of BIS. In agility, distraction equals danger (falling off the dogwalk, hitting a jump wing at high speed, etc.). Other distractions such as food in the ring and squeaky toys around the ring are strictly prohibited, and opponents of the new measure think BIS should be treated in the same way since they are just as distracting to some dogs as squeaky toys are to others. However, there are a lot of younger people in the sport, mostly women, who are in favour of allowing BIS at trial sites based on "gender discrimination" grounds (it's unfair to ban dogs just because they're females). (Yes, I know, but it is what it is ...) Anyway, one of these people, a millennial who has been very vocal in support of allowing BIS, posted a comment in the group discussion to the effect that "we just have to wait for the old brigade to die off or leave the sport and take their "boys will be boys" attitude with them, then we can do what we want".
I've seen this posted all over facebook as well and have to shake my head. There's so much more to allowing girls in season to run agility than simply "train your boys". First of all, I can't imagine being a girl owner and trusting other dog handlers with my girl's safety. I think all of us have seen a loose dog at some point, a near fight, or an actual fight. Take the distraction piece out of the discussion and it's such a giant liability issue it just makes no sense. Secondly, I can tell that none of these individuals have actually owned a stud dog. And I'm not talking about an intact boy, there's a big difference between an intact boy that's never been allowed to breed and one that's bred several times. So if these folks got their way, they would essentially be making it very difficult for people to own stud dogs and run agility. Which is only going to hurt them down the line, because how many times have we heard bitch owners complain about the lack of good stud dogs.

Luckily, I don't think a majority of folks think its a good idea I just think those that do are the loudest.
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Theres 2 of us! I honestly thought you were younger
I鈥檓 Gen X too! Lol
I鈥檓 Gen X too! Lol
We're 3 strong now! Does Gen X just do conformation and field I wonder?
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We're 3 strong now! Does Gen X just do conformation and field I wonder?
Make it 4! Firmly Gen X over here!

I do hunt training, and was doing tracking, but honestly for me, it's a time thing. I have to work around my non-traditional work schedule and the fact that I am a 60-90 drive from training grounds. I am counting the days til retirement. Most of the people I train with are 5-10 years older than me (in hunt and tracking), though we did have a younger contingent coming up in hunt training (until our trainer moved away). I'm not sure what has happened with the younger bunch - they seemed to be in their 30s, I'd say.

Once I am retired, I definitely plan to try agility (which is honest-to-goodness thanks to Christine and the videos she has posted here!) and maybe obedience. Will always do hunt and hopefully will get back to tracking soon.
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I've seen this posted all over facebook as well and have to shake my head. There's so much more to allowing girls in season to run agility than simply "train your boys". First of all, I can't imagine being a girl owner and trusting other dog handlers with my girl's safety. I think all of us have seen a loose dog at some point, a near fight, or an actual fight. Take the distraction piece out of the discussion and it's such a giant liability issue it just makes no sense. Secondly, I can tell that none of these individuals have actually owned a stud dog. And I'm not talking about an intact boy, there's a big difference between an intact boy that's never been allowed to breed and one that's bred several times. So if these folks got their way, they would essentially be making it very difficult for people to own stud dogs and run agility. Which is only going to hurt them down the line, because how many times have we heard bitch owners complain about the lack of good stud dogs.

Luckily, I don't think a majority of folks think its a good idea I just think those that do are the loudest.
You'd think so, wouldn't you - but somewhat amazingly it's not the case. Our association did a survey of members and it came out 51% in favour of and 49% against allowing BIS at trials. Based on that, they went ahead with a one-year pilot project involving a limited number of volunteer clubs. The pilot project ends this summer and the association has already decided - without feedback from the membership - to allow BIS on a permanent basis, at the discretion of clubs. This year is the last year that BIS will be prohibited from our provincial and national championships. I'm frankly not impressed. You're right, there will be behavioural issues. And while there are rules in place for BIS at trial sites (crated away from other dogs, etc.), nobody seems to follow them, and in any case BIS aren't required to wear panties when running the course. Those of us who own intact dogs and stud dogs have been told that it's just a training issue and we need to get over it.

I'm currently preparing a motion for the Board, to allow food treats in the ring for exhibition-only training runs, and squeaky toys in the warm-up area. So what if treats are dropped on the ground, and so what if the noise is distracting? It's only a training thing, after all ...
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You'd think so, wouldn't you - but somewhat amazingly it's not the case. Our association did a survey of members and it came out 51% in favour of and 49% against allowing BIS at trials. Based on that, they went ahead with a one-year pilot project involving a limited number of volunteer clubs. The pilot project ends this summer and the association has already decided - without feedback from the membership - to allow BIS on a permanent basis, at the discretion of clubs. This year is the last year that BIS will be prohibited from our provincial and national championships. I'm frankly not impressed. You're right, there will be behavioural issues. And while there are rules in place for BIS at trial sites (crated away from other dogs, etc.), nobody seems to follow them, and in any case BIS aren't required to wear panties when running the course. Those of us who own intact dogs and stud dogs have been told that it's just a training issue and we need to get over it.

I'm currently preparing a motion for the Board, to allow food treats in the ring for exhibition-only training runs, and squeaky toys in the warm-up area. So what if treats are dropped on the ground, and so what if the noise is distracting? It's only a training thing, after all ...
oh wow! That is scary, I really hope it that trend doesn't make its way here.
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