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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Following up on the nutrition, I was reading again your original post to give the details and I was calculating the amount of N&D food you were giving your golden.. you mentioned 325g puppy food in total. But I believe you wrote.. 100g for breakfast, 25g for lunch and 100g for dinner = only 225g... Are you feeding 100g less or is this a typo? Just to clarify... Thanks..
Thanks for noticing this. I am sorry. This is a typo. It’s 150+25+150
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
That wasn't my post. I wouldn't feed the N&D either. I would find a kibble that meets the wsava guidelines. Do you have access to Purina foods?
Yes purina is available where I am. Thankfully I am in one of the most popular metropolitan cities in India. So yes most of the things are available here.
 

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Did your vet do imaging?
Unfortunately the vets here are closed for some sort of holiday today but I do plan to phone one of them this evening for a chat so I can imagine that will be a part of any questions- and I assume I can share your photos.
I also dk how one would go about paying for this sort of thing- we do have tele-med vets but none of them are ones I use. Do you do paypal?

So I just pm'd you with contact info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Did your vet do imaging?
Unfortunately the vets here are closed for some sort of holiday today but I do plan to phone one of them this evening for a chat so I can imagine that will be a part of any questions- and I assume I can share your photos.
I also dk how one would go about paying for this sort of thing- we do have tele-med vets but none of them are ones I use. Do you do paypal?

So I just pm'd you with contact info.
Thanks for replying. The vet didn't do imaging. He examined him physically then asked what kind of floor I have in my house and then went on to blame the floor. I will arrange the payment one way or the other that's for sure. Paypal is a huge pain. I have had 3 of my Paypal accounts blocked but if paypal is the only option I will arrange payment via paypal.

Thank you for the details of the doctor and all the help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Everyone, I just had a thought. I am not doubting any of your advices/suggestions/thoughts/beliefs/help, but we have street dogs in India. Strays as some may call them. They take birth on the streets and live out their entire lives on the streets. All of you talk about nutrition being the cause of this but these stray don't get nutritional food. I am feeding superman the most expensive food I can get my hands on in India. The strays don't even get the cheapest dog food. Sometimes they don't even get any food at all. Some people feed them out of love for them but I am sure that does not fulfil their nutritional requirements. They get home-cooked food. When no one feeds them I am not even sure what they eat on the street. Their legs are straight. They don't have a problem. I don't know what's going on.

I have met 3 different people in my locality who noticed the problem in his legs and blamed the flooring. Please do not assume that I am saying that all of you are wrong and my vet and the people I met are correct. These are just my thoughts.

Then there is another thing. I had a female dog who left us in 2021. We got her when she was very small too. She never had any problems with her legs. She lived in the same house and on the same floor. Just like superman her legs used to slip on the floor too. When she was little she struggled gripping the floor too but she learned as she grew up. She was perfect. I didn't even feed her the dog food. From day one she was on home-cooked food. I told the same thing to the vet also. He said that the slippery floor wouldn't affect the legs of 100% of dogs but 60-70% of dogs can get affected if left on slippery flooring during the first few months.

All of this information is just contradictory.
 

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Large breed dogs in particular, especially with nutritional imbalances, have this issue. The flooring means nothing. Flooring will not have THAT dramatic of an effect. Food however, especially calcium supplements on a large breed puppy going through rapid growth, will.
Yes, it could be something more serious that requires medical intervention, but it’s not the floor. I’ve never, EVER, heard of slick flooring causing pasterns to drop. Maybe flat feet or dysplasia issues, but your biggest issue is the pasterns and that is either nutritional or an injury.
 

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As contradictory as it may seem, sometimes adding supplements to a dog's (esp puppy) food intake can cause huge issues. Bodies are meant to run and develop efficiently with a certain balance of intake, and your particular puppy has been taking in an enormous amount of minerals, and the Ca+ /P balance is crucial to not stop a cascade of other nutrient effect/affect on a developing body. It's not a lay person's bailiwick usually, and most people trust manufacturers and also most have the 'more is better' mindset... and that 'more is better' is what you are seeing play out w the street dogs, who do not have the opportunities for 'more' that Superman has. More is sometimes more detrimental than nearly none, depending on what the 'more' is.
for instance:
Calcium2.5% min
Calcium3.5% max
Phosphorus2.5% min
When a label doesn't say a certain mg of Ca+ but instead a percentage of weight, it really tells us nothing.
Because a puppy's body can't adequately regulate how much dietary calcium they absorb from the intestines, they sometimes use too much if diet includes it, which can cause skeletal malformations.

I feel that if you've sent the vet I suggested the labelling on the products/food and the photos she asked for, you will be able to get a clearer understanding of what might be going on, from the perspective of a person who is learned in nutrition and development. Time difference though will likely play into that so it won't be an instant answer, I think we're 9.5 hours apart on time, and she'll be looking at your dog (and prob getting others' opinions) while at work today.

Your flooring would play a much bigger role in an old dog whose joints are naturally growing less able. Old dogs, yes- putting down runners is a smart move. Young dogs, assuming he's not got slipper feet (hair under the feet) his pads should be able to keep him from slip-sliding, or should have, before his pasterns fell.
I just don't get the mindset of the vet- to not do imaging to rule out a serious condition seems odd to me. I am guessing given your expenditures on food/supps, you can afford a full workup. It just seems too casual and careless on the vet to assume anything without proof but maybe veterinary care isn't same there as here- here, any of my vets when presented w a problem such as this, would lay out a plan for definitive diagnostics and let me make the choice on whether I could afford various things.
Genetics might be playing a role here, too, but almost certainly all the minerals your puppy is taking in have a bigger role imo. I admire that you are working to get an answer that feels 'right' to you.
Please let us know once you have your consult-
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
As contradictory as it may seem, sometimes adding supplements to a dog's (esp puppy) food intake can cause huge issues. Bodies are meant to run and develop efficiently with a certain balance of intake, and your particular puppy has been taking in an enormous amount of minerals, and the Ca+ /P balance is crucial to not stop a cascade of other nutrient effect/affect on a developing body. It's not a lay person's bailiwick usually, and most people trust manufacturers and also most have the 'more is better' mindset... and that 'more is better' is what you are seeing play out w the street dogs, who do not have the opportunities for 'more' that Superman has. More is sometimes more detrimental than nearly none, depending on what the 'more' is.
for instance:
Calcium2.5% min
Calcium3.5% max
Phosphorus2.5% min
When a label doesn't say a certain mg of Ca+ but instead a percentage of weight, it really tells us nothing.
Because a puppy's body can't adequately regulate how much dietary calcium they absorb from the intestines, they sometimes use too much if diet includes it, which can cause skeletal malformations.

I feel that if you've sent the vet I suggested the labelling on the products/food and the photos she asked for, you will be able to get a clearer understanding of what might be going on, from the perspective of a person who is learned in nutrition and development. Time difference though will likely play into that so it won't be an instant answer, I think we're 9.5 hours apart on time, and she'll be looking at your dog (and prob getting others' opinions) while at work today.

Your flooring would play a much bigger role in an old dog whose joints are naturally growing less able. Old dogs, yes- putting down runners is a smart move. Young dogs, assuming he's not got slipper feet (hair under the feet) his pads should be able to keep him from slip-sliding, or should have, before his pasterns fell.
I just don't get the mindset of the vet- to not do imaging to rule out a serious condition seems odd to me. I am guessing given your expenditures on food/supps, you can afford a full workup. It just seems too casual and careless on the vet to assume anything without proof but maybe veterinary care isn't same there as here- here, any of my vets when presented w a problem such as this, would lay out a plan for definitive diagnostics and let me make the choice on whether I could afford various things.
Genetics might be playing a role here, too, but almost certainly all the minerals your puppy is taking in have a bigger role imo. I admire that you are working to get an answer that feels 'right' to you.
Please let us know once you have your consult-
Thanks for replying. I just wanted the best for superman. The vet recommended me all these supplements. I asked him and he said yes they are necessary. Hence I started the supplements. He also quoted hip dysplasia to which is common in goldens. I have sent the email to the doctor with all the details requested through you. I shared the photos in a google drive. All of you can take a look at it as well if you like. Here it is>> Superman - Google Drive

I have setup another appointment with another vet for tomorrow. I will let you all know what he says. As per the hospital he is an ortho specialist.

also I will let you know if I here from the doctor I emailed.
 

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My vet just went on maternity leave, so go with Prism's advice and talk to whoever she suggested.

If your vet told you to put your baby puppy on that much calcium, you need a new vet. That is gross incompetence IMO.
 

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I'll also let you know what my vet says - I will be slow please bear with me (as I explained the reason why in an earlier post) but in the meantime, if I'm in your shoes, I'll do what Prism says.

I just wanted to know if I was in your situation what would a French vet say.. - this is in no way a slight on the American or French vets... It's just to understand and further the discussion so I hope nobody who offered you help (including you) is offended by my suggestion to ask my vet. Like I mentioned, I am not experienced and I do not want my comments to seem like a challenge to anyone's experience or expertise.
 

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Thanks for replying. I just wanted the best for superman. The vet recommended me all these supplements. I asked him and he said yes they are necessary. Hence I started the supplements. He also quoted hip dysplasia to which is common in goldens. I have sent the email to the doctor with all the details requested through you. I shared the photos in a google drive. All of you can take a look at it as well if you like. Here it is>> Superman - Google Drive

I have setup another appointment with another vet for tomorrow. I will let you all know what he says. As per the hospital he is an ortho specialist.

also I will let you know if I here from the doctor I emailed.
Best thing you can do to prevent dysplasia imo is 1. pedigree safe, 2. keep dog slim, grow slow, 3. exercise appropriately. My only dysplasias, ever, have been obvious by pedigree (not many- but I do have I think 3 in my produce). I do not supplement my growing dogs w anything- except randomly I give Stress B vitamins. Mostly when I have bred someone, and I do supplement B vitamins in a breeding animal, so oftentimes everyone gets half a B for a week or so but like I said, that is really a random thing. B's are peed out if not needed so no harm done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
My vet just went on maternity leave, so go with Prism's advice and talk to whoever she suggested.

If your vet told you to put your baby puppy on that much calcium, you need a new vet. That is gross incompetence IMO.
Thanks for replying. The other vet who i went to on Saturday for his feet didn’t ask me stop giving him supplements either 😐
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
I'll also let you know what my vet says - I will be slow please bear with me (as I explained the reason why in an earlier post) but in the meantime, if I'm in your shoes, I'll do what Prism says.

I just wanted to know if I was in your situation what would a French vet say.. - this is in no way a slight on the American or French vets... It's just to understand and further the discussion so I hope nobody who offered you help (including you) is offended by my suggestion to ask my vet. Like I mentioned, I am not experienced and I do not want my comments to seem like a challenge to anyone's experience or expertise.
Thank you very much. You have been really helpful. I not someone who gets offended very easily just like everyone here i hope.
Please take your time to get your vet’s suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
I'll also let you know what my vet says - I will be slow please bear with me (as I explained the reason why in an earlier post) but in the meantime, if I'm in your shoes, I'll do what Prism says.

I just wanted to know if I was in your situation what would a French vet say.. - this is in no way a slight on the American or French vets... It's just to understand and further the discussion so I hope nobody who offered you help (including you) is offended by my suggestion to ask my vet. Like I mentioned, I am not experienced and I do not want my comments to seem like a challenge to anyone's experience or expertise.
So basically you are saying cut all supplements, feed vitamin c(how much? When?)? I have already cut the supplements
 

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So basically you are saying cut all supplements, feed vitamin c(how much? When?)? I have already cut the supplements

I think you were meaning to ask Prism...? I was never asked by my vets to give any supplements to my golden and I did not give any on my own initiative - so I have no knowledge on this.. sorry.
 

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No I meant to ask you but everyone can comment.
Oh well, I have no idea sorry. At that age (4.5 months old), I only gave my golden his kibbles only. He did not even get treats. His treats were his kibbles (Royal Canin). The vet have never recommended anything else for us - apart from deworming, vaccinations....

When I meant I will do what Prism says -- it was regarding the vet appointment she set you up with and to send the relevant information and get some insight into Superman's condition....
 
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