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I hope you get some responses to this. We did 2 shows this past summer ( neither counted as he was too young) but I used a toy( actually his dokken duck) to get him to stand and look forward. I realize my mistake tho about a month ago I didnt make the ring fun. When he got a bit overzealous I used the " no.... settle". I should not have done that.
 

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I am actually working on this now with my little one. I first had to keep him from sitting. He thought that because there was a treat in my hand, that he needed to sit. Once i got over the sit and acconplished a good stand, i would gait him around (down and back) and at the end give a verbal stack.

I love a clicker for first starting. when he gets in a good stance, i click, then quickly give a treat. i repeat over and over. He realizes...oh i did something good.

I move the treat from my stomach, to my side, and make sure he does not sit anytime while doing this.

I will write more later. There might be a better way, this has just worked for me.

i wonder if there are any good videos of free stacking.
 

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Kate
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This might not be the way...

But I always thought that if you have a dog with a good structure and good idea of where his feet go, you can do a kickback stand with him and then teach him to step (one step) forward to get that full stack.

And people use clickers and treats with this.
 

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Megora can you explain a kickback stand. I am new to this kind of dog world(showing competeing and such) and I dont know the lingo yet. I hope I do someday and hopefully soon. :D
 

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This might not be the way...

But I always thought that if you have a dog with a good structure and good idea of where his feet go, you can do a kickback stand with him and then teach him to step (one step) forward to get that full stack.

And people use clickers and treats with this.
But in conformation you don't want the dog sitting first.

I don't know how she taught it, but I know a trainer who can tell her dog "stand" or "stack" and he will adjust himself accordingly either for an obedience stand or a breed stack, purely on verbal, no visual cues. He can move back and forth very fluently between the two.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I am actually working on this now with my little one. I first had to keep him from sitting. He thought that because there was a treat in my hand, that he needed to sit. Once i got over the sit and acconplished a good stand, i would gait him around (down and back) and at the end give a verbal stack.

I love a clicker for first starting. when he gets in a good stance, i click, then quickly give a treat. i repeat over and over. He realizes...oh i did something good.

I move the treat from my stomach, to my side, and make sure he does not sit anytime while doing this.

I will write more later. There might be a better way, this has just worked for me.

i wonder if there are any good videos of free stacking.
All good ideas. I agree... watching a video would be helpful. Its tough trying to teach a dog something when you're not exactly sure how to go about it. You get frustrated and the dog gets confused.

What about using a rod (like a 1/4" diameter wooden dowl thats about 3 ft long) to tap the dogs front and rear legs to get them into the correct position and then praise the dog (or use a clicker) when he puts his feet in the correct position.. and then of course reward him with a treat.
 

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Kate
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But in conformation you don't want the dog sitting first.
Doi. :doh: And you can tell what all I know about teaching stands comes from the obedience world. Even with conformation people and their conformation dogs. :bowl: I'll shut up now.
 

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I am going to try to find a video!
 

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The only video I could find that was half-way decent was this one below.

[YOUTUBE]
 

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I think the trickiest part for me is the transition from a gait to the free stack...that has to happen pretty quick, or the judge will just send you around before you get a good free stack in. I find it even more tricky in small rings.
 

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That's the one thing that Chloe totally "got" when I showed her. Right before we got back to the judge I would bring her around to me with the bait. At first it was sticking it right in front of her nose, getting her squared up with me, and then telling her to stand, then after awhile it got easier as she realized she would sometimes get bait at that point so she would make a point to face me and stack herself. Not sure if that makes sense, but basically she would square up to me wherever I was. It was the one thing we did well! lol

The hardest part for me right now working with Kira is getting the bait away from her mouth. She is letting me hand stack her, but she'll keep moving forward if I don't have her held in place with the lead. So free-stacking is just dumb luck if it happens because she thinks she always should get bait if she's "standing" and go toward the bait. Then if I don't reward her (because I don't want to reward lunging at the bait) she sits thinking I really wanted her to sit, not stand. LOL She's really trying so it's hard to be frustrated with her, it's funny watching her do the, like, 3 behaviors she knows in hopes one will be right. We only work a couple minutes here and there since her attention span is really short at 12 weeks old, but I'm hoping it'll slowly improve to where she'll wait for the bait instead of lunging for it. Baby steps I guess. :)
 

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The "Szizlin Vizslas" website has some good info on stacking, gaiting, free-bating, etc., at:

Show Article

Hope this helps.....
 

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I think my Sam just likes to gait.....its like he was a complete natural never had any movement problems always wagging the tail, just perfect....but when it comes to stacking I don't think he sees the point. I mean there is bait involved, but never while gaiting (cause I want him looking forward) and by the time I get the bait ready for a free stack, it takes too long. I mean I am the problem in the situation, we just need a good way to practice with a person he doesn't know standing there as the judge. When we practice with a person he knows, that is a whole different distraction. One time in a show we were on the out and back and as we were turning his eye caught my boyfriend in the stands, and Sam lunged out in the direction of my boyfriend...(SO embarrassed).

Although to change the subject a bit, do people generally have a preference between indoor and outdoor shows. SO far it might have just been the venues, but I greatly prefer the outdoor shows, because the rings are bigger, and I think you get a more natural gait. But thoughts on the matter?
 

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I love outdoor shows....but where i live, we do not have many! I have been to a few in florida. The negatives for me that i have seen (now this is in fl) is dogs get hot quicker....so tongue is just hanging out.

Also, my girl tends to look at the ground more at outside shows than inside. Like her bumper or something fun would be laying on the grass. :)

Do love the bigger ring size.

I guess it depends where you live!
 
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I think my Sam just likes to gait.....its like he was a complete natural never had any movement problems always wagging the tail, just perfect....but when it comes to stacking I don't think he sees the point. I mean there is bait involved, but never while gaiting (cause I want him looking forward) and by the time I get the bait ready for a free stack, it takes too long. I mean I am the problem in the situation, we just need a good way to practice with a person he doesn't know standing there as the judge. When we practice with a person he knows, that is a whole different distraction. One time in a show we were on the out and back and as we were turning his eye caught my boyfriend in the stands, and Sam lunged out in the direction of my boyfriend...(SO embarrassed).

Although to change the subject a bit, do people generally have a preference between indoor and outdoor shows. SO far it might have just been the venues, but I greatly prefer the outdoor shows, because the rings are bigger, and I think you get a more natural gait. But thoughts on the matter?
Where do u put your bait? can you reach for it as you are reaching the end of the down and back? I always have a piece of cheese or chicken in my other hand when we do down and back as many of my suits do not have pockets :-(
 

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Dress pants' pockets, but if I try holding it in my hand he will know! and no way would that work. He is very food motivated, so his gait would be negatively effected. Although I didn't have a suit jacket, this past summer, and obviously the pockets would be better then dress pants to access on the go. Although I'm convinced I need more practice. Its something I rarely get to work with him in a continuous motion. Like we work on gaiting, then stacking in different training sessions or on the go. I use to have handling classes close by which would be so helpful right about now (or this past summer), but where I go to school and where I worked over the summer there isn't much in the way of formal/drop in classes. This next summer, there will be classes, so I'm really hoping to refine this more, and train myself to be more coordinated. (although I am a super newbie, so there is a lot to refine still.)
 

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Greetings all! I may be a bit rusty on this stuff, but when I first trained one of my dogs to free stack, they already knew how to hold a stand & positioned stack. With a mirror along a side wall to the floor, I would practice walking my dog into a stack looking at the positions the dog's feet were in when stopped. I could slightly step to one direction or the other, or step towards them or away to cause the dog to slightly reposition one foot to get it more 4-square. I also used what ever kept their attention the best, typically food or a small toy. If you are attentive enough to know what the best stack looks like with your dog from your vantage-point by checking the mirrored reflection, then you can work on that to the point where you feel good without the mirror.

I would take my dogs to shopping centers and watch our reflection in the ground level windows. Folks around the neighborhood would see the crazy lady playing "show dog". It also worked well to proof sit & down stays for obedience.

Hope that helps some.
 
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