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Discussion Starter #1
Before I got Jige I was reading an "old school" retrieving book called Gun Dog cant remeber the rest of the title but anyways in that book he talked about using paint rolls and tennis balls and bumpers to get your dog to retrieve. When I go to hunt training they tell me not use tennis balls and other things to get Jige to retrieve. I have to say I dont listen to them as I want Jige to pick up whatever I tell him to pick up and I find that their dogs dont neccessarily do that( the other Golden does).

So my question do you use other items when you are doing fetch with your dog?


i.e of what Jige will pick if I tell him to " fetch it up"....tennis balls, frrisbes, socks, shoes, shirts, sticks, toys. I have will lay these items around th house and yard and then send him out he delivers them all to hand. I want to do tracking with him and he has to pick up the item one of the reasons I started doing this with him at a young age.
 

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Kate
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If you ask your dog to take, get, hold something - you need to be prepared to follow through with your training if he doesn't do what you want.

The reason why I avoid doing official retrieves with my dog with anything other than dumbbells (Disclaimer: I'm not a hunt person) is that I'm not going to ask for that position or hold when we are just playing. And my dog generally connects tennis balls, stuffies, sticks, etc... with playing. We do retrieve games, but they are definitely not official. I'm usually on the floor and encouraging my guy to race in faster, etc...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh I do follow through with whatever I ask him to bring me he must bring. Like I stated I want to do tracking him too and he will have to pick up whatever the track layer puts down.
 

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Tracer, Rumor & Cady
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For AKC tracking...he does not have to pick up the articles ....he can indicate or retrieve. (Section 23)

There is something to be said for teaching an indication vs. a retrieve. If your dog loooooves to use his nose...you may want to go on to search work where you may be looking for evidence...evidence that could be dangerous for a dog to retrieve like ammunition or other things that could be human scented, but be potentially toxic....or if really talented...evidence that could be used in a legal setting where it can not be contaminated with dog saliva/hair or disturbed from its discovered location.



Oh I do follow through with whatever I ask him to bring me he must bring. Like I stated I want to do tracking him too and he will have to pick up whatever the track layer puts down.
 

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Tracer, Rumor & Cady
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I work to build a desire to retrieve and will use everything I can think of when they are very young 10-16 weeks...soup spoons, plastic childrens toys, metal toys, hair brushes, things that are noisy like cans with pennies in them, heavy (canned veggies) or unevenly weighted (bottles partially filled with water)....long or unruly thinks like long strips of material...
 

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the party's crashing us
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Since you are not FFing I would definitely keep bumpers out of the toy box, but there's really no problem letting your pup chase balls or toys around the house. It can help build retrieve desire obviously, and if you uphold your standards of delivering to hand I could see where it would help your field work.
Dogs are quick at distinguishing field work from play. For example Fisher loves nothing more than to put his bumper on the ground and roll upside down on it. If I'm working in the garage or yard I will give him a bumper and he will entertain himself for a long time, rolling on his bumper. However he has NEVER tried to roll on birds or bumpers in field work. Same with Slater and TUG. In obedience or just play in general, Slater LIVES FOR TUG. You can tug with anything and he is like a pit bull. He is crazy dog for tugging. However in field work he has a very soft mouth, almost too soft, and has never offered to tug or stick on a bird or bumper. They know the difference.
There are a lot of superstitions with some of the "good old boys" and those include no toys for the dogs, live in outside kennels, no playing tug, etc, etc. It's worked for them but that doesn't mean it has to be like that. If you are having success with what you're doing, go for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you both for insight.

I would love to search and rescue. That has been a dream on mine for about 10yrs unfortunately there is no training around here for it. I do have books and I have partially trained my APBT for this but since I cant get past her not liking men I quit. I think that once we have the upland training under our belt I will start SAR with Jige.

I have taken a few seminars from trainers about tracking and they said the Judges perfer the dog to pick up the article. My APBT sits when she discovers an article.
 

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Riot's mom
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Since you are not FFing I would definitely keep bumpers out of the toy box, but there's really no problem letting your pup chase balls or toys around the house. It can help build retrieve desire obviously, and if you uphold your standards of delivering to hand I could see where it would help your field work.
Dogs are quick at distinguishing field work from play. For example Fisher loves nothing more than to put his bumper on the ground and roll upside down on it. If I'm working in the garage or yard I will give him a bumper and he will entertain himself for a long time, rolling on his bumper. However he has NEVER tried to roll on birds or bumpers in field work. Same with Slater and TUG. In obedience or just play in general, Slater LIVES FOR TUG. You can tug with anything and he is like a pit bull. He is crazy dog for tugging. However in field work he has a very soft mouth, almost too soft, and has never offered to tug or stick on a bird or bumper. They know the difference.
There are a lot of superstitions with some of the "good old boys" and those include no toys for the dogs, live in outside kennels, no playing tug, etc, etc. It's worked for them but that doesn't mean it has to be like that. If you are having success with what you're doing, go for it.

Agree, agree, agree! In fact, I do my field yard work on the same field that we play ball. Ball=do whatever you want, have fun! Bumpers=deliver to hand, no fooling around. Now, that standard I have with bumpers is something that I have had to uphold, because if he gets really excited, he starts messing around with the bumper.

Riot will fetch pretty much everything now. He picked up my (wrapped) candy bar for me the other day and carried my nephews sippy cup into the house (right into the dish washer). Oh, and he carried his bottle of supplements to the car because my hubby wanted him to "pull his weight." Riot lives such a hard life...
 

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I pretty much just use bumpers (or dumb bells for obedience) for fetching. We went to the park a few times with frisbees, and balls to play and I have no problem with that but Gabby and Quinn are WAY too over the top to play those games. They run so fast, and stop so hard I am too freaking afraid of injury. So we don't do that anymore.

Now if Gabby takes one of her house toys outside and I don't feel like going out to get it, I will sit line her up and have her "fetch" it. If I use that word, I must uphold a certain protocol.

I have an issue in agility. We are trying to teach Gabby a rear cross, and they trainer keeps putting a target down to give her a visual to go to. Well as soon as that target is set down, Gabby shifts into retriever mode. MUST FETCH THING ON GROUND!!!!! She is not getting the concept we are trying to teach her. Her brain is not in agility mode. Oh speaking of agility. When Gabby has her agility class, they are doing a "retriever obedience" class in the next ring. Duck calls, whistles, bumpers, and yes Gabby is VERY aware what is going on over there. Talk about proofing. Between her turns in class, she wants to go play with them.
 

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Kate
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I have an issue in agility. We are trying to teach Gabby a rear cross, and they trainer keeps putting a target down to give her a visual to go to. Well as soon as that target is set down, Gabby shifts into retriever mode. MUST FETCH THING ON GROUND!!!!! She is not getting the concept we are trying to teach her. Her brain is not in agility mode. Oh speaking of agility. When Gabby has her agility class, they are doing a "retriever obedience" class in the next ring. Duck calls, whistles, bumpers, and yes Gabby is VERY aware what is going on over there. Talk about proofing. Between her turns in class, she wants to go play with them.
Are you saying she's the complete opposite of Belle? :)
 

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The only hard and fast, etched-in-stone rule about dogs is that there is no hard and fast, etched-in-stone rule that applies to all dogs across the board. There is something unique about each one of them. For that reason we have to be on our toes about reading them for the needs specific to each one.


I generally discourage throwing too many different objects for retrievers that will be trained for fieldwork. There are so many items that can be present in the field, which could be cofused for something that the boss would think is 'okay' to fetch, and that would have notihng to do with what they were sent for. A case in point:

A girl I knew years ago thought having her Lab fetch all sorts of things was running a field trial on a wildlife area. It was a set of water marks. The dog had a bit of a hunt on the memory mark, and came trotting in proudly with...a dead catfish. Knowing the dog and its history, it was clear to me that the dog had decided for himself that something was better than nothing, and nearly anything is okay.:confused:

Their job in fieldwork is hard enough without our making the rules unclear for them. Stick with routine fetch objects, and both you and your dog are more apt to succeed, and to have fewer needless battles in the field.

EvanG
 
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We can't use targets in agility with Tito for the same reason. He doesn't give a hoot about a treat on the target, it's the target he wants!! Gotta pick it up Gotta pick it up Gotta pick it up Gotta pick it up....
Dan taught me not to use the "F" word (fetch!) unless Tito is "working", and I really mean it. We use "back" for blinds, "take it" for marks or obedience retrieves, "find it" for utility articles, "get it" for toys around the house or balls. The "F" word was used for force fetch, and if I use it, the Monster boy knows darned well he'd better come back with what he was sent for. If he's doing a drill and hesitates over the bumper pile (shopping) and I holler "fetch it up" he straightens up his attitude real quick ;) .
Gotta love the F word.

edit to add...example of the use of the F word.
Throwing some doubles recently, where the memory bird was a bird at 60-100 yards, and the go bird was a short hand thrown bumper. Of course, when sent on "take it" the bonehead takes off for the long memory bird, even though the 2 falls are many degrees apart. Had to be re-sent on "fetch it up" before he would go for the bumper instead of the bird.
 
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Tito is sent on "take it" and not "Tito"? I mostly see sent on name around here for marks.
Come to think of it there is a a gal from Oregon who sends on marks with "take it". There is one Golden here that is sent on "Back" for everything. The dog has better momentum on "back" and it works for them.

In field work we only use birds, bumpers, dokkens.
In the house fetch still means pick it up and bring it to me. Very useful for dropped items when my hands are full, laundry, car keys..,,,,

To the OP, have you proofed "hold"?
 

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Are you saying she's the complete opposite of Belle? :)
LOL OH MY HEAVEN YES!!!!! I can play fetch with Teddi and Belle all day long. Or as long as they want to play. Gabby doesn't slow down she TACKLES the tossed item, and flips herself. I see TPLO's in her future.

I pretty much only say fetch in the field but in teaching Gabby her obedience dumb bell I have used it because she did not understand what she was to do, until I said then she grabbed it up in a snap. I only say it in the field when she is being slow on the pick up. When we were learning ducks, and she was not sure about picking a fresh one up, I nicked and said "fetch it up" and she brought it back no more questions. That type of scenario.
 

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Tito is sent on "take it" and not "Tito"? I mostly see sent on name around here for marks.
Come to think of it there is a a gal from Oregon who sends on marks with "take it". There is one Golden here that is sent on "Back" for everything. The dog has better momentum on "back" and it works for them.
"Take it" is a traditional Obedience venue term. Dogs trained for fieldwork traditionally are sent for marks on their names, and on blinds on "Back". When marks and blinds are combined, and/or when there is a dog on honor, using the name for marks aids in honoring, and in understanding that the dog is being sent on one or another; mark or blind.

EvanG
 
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Yes, he is sent on "take it" instead of his name. Since I had already used "take it" in obedience, and because I use his name before almost all obedience commands in the obedience ring, Dan and I decided to stick with take it. Not only did he already know that command, I didn't want him to start going on his name in obedience!


Tito is sent on "take it" and not "Tito"? I mostly see sent on name around here for marks.
Come to think of it there is a a gal from Oregon who sends on marks with "take it". There is one Golden here that is sent on "Back" for everything. The dog has better momentum on "back" and it works for them.

In field work we only use birds, bumpers, dokkens.
In the house fetch still means pick it up and bring it to me. Very useful for dropped items when my hands are full, laundry, car keys..,,,,

To the OP, have you proofed "hold"?
 
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I didn't want him to start going on his name in obedience!
Yes! I almost made that mistake when training for Open...I was sending on their name. A judge (not during a show) told me that would be an NQ if my dog went on their name-hazard of starting out in field then going to obedience with my Novice A dog.

Marks-on name
Blinds-"back"
ROF/ROH-"fetch" (and gloves)
Articles-"find mine"
 

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I shoot, they fetch.
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I also have one dog (the first to do field work) who is sent on "Take it" for marks. He had already had a fair bit of formal obedience training before we began field work, and had a trained retrieve on that command, so he know what it meant, and his name was a cue before a verbal command. It was just the way we had been training, and for him there didn't seem much point in changing it, and it has never hurt him in a test! He goes on "Back" for blinds. The other three all go on their name for marks as we have concentrated on field work first.

I think it really just matters what the dog is accustomed to hearing as the release, and that you are consistent with it. One friend sends her dogs on "Back" for both marks and blinds, she just gives the watch command before marks go down to cue that it is marks, and a deadbird command to signal it is a blind. I have friends who use "Fetch" on marks because they have 6 black labs and found they were sometimes spitting out two names, and sometimes he handles, sometimes she handles, so they went to one command to be consistent. They qualified a dog for our Nat Am this year, and have another QAA, as well as 4 MH, so...;)
 

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I train with Nancy and John Miner and they train to use Back on everything-blinds and marks. I was at a UKC started and the judge was insistent I send my dog on his names for marks. He has his MH and to him back means go, so I wasn't about to change for a test. When I went to water and again sent him on back-judge was very stern-I had to lie and tell him his name is "Back". Don't think he could have failed me on it, but he certainly wasn't shy about his opinion. Have had some trouble training gloves in utility tho. I was telling him to fetch and he was giving me confused no goes. I finally tried "Back" and have had no problems since. I guess in his mind Back means go no matter what the venue is.
 
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