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Hi folks.

I've been researching Goldens and have found several breeders in both NorCal and SoCal that seem to be a good fit for me. One has 2 pups from a litter that will be available mid June. I'd love any comments on both the sire & dam. And also if anyone has bumped into the breeder before. DeAnne Erickson of Bonanza Goldens outside of San Diego CA.

Sire: Int. Ch. Matigan’s Chocolate Addiction

Dam: Matigan Bonanza’s Ponderosa

Seems like she might be selling the litter with the other owner. I'll determine that prior to making a decision. But before I go any further, I wanted to get an opinion from people.

Does anybody spot any issues with the breeder or lineage? Price is $2,500 which seems fair to me given OFA certs.

My previous golden, Dakota, was with me for nearly 15 years. I didn't do much research on the breeder as I didn't know what I didn't know. I got very lucky - but this time around, I wanted to be more thorough.

I'm in Northern California.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Trish
 

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Things look decent.

Dams OFA: https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1872268
>>> Eyes are out dated. Ask the breeder if they have a more recent test that proves the dam was cleared within 12 months prior to breeding. I believe OFA is running slow so the might have a more recent clearance and it just hasn't been added to OFA.
>> Heart was done by a practitioner (which I believe means a GP instead of a cardiologist)

Sire's OFA: https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?f=sr&appnum=1759849

Take this with a grain of salt since I'm an utter newbie. It caught my eye that there is a common ancestor in the 5 generation lineage. Matigan Tiger Lily is the dam's grandmother and the sire's mother. Idk what that means in regards to in-breeding vs linebreeding and the coefficent of inbreeding but to me it gives me pause and I'd want to find out more from the breeder as to why this pairing makes the most sense.

K9data of the parents:
https://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=901524
https://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=644165
 

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Thanks for the comments - I will ask the breeder that question.. And also you're right on the OFA for eyes - I'll ask that question as well.

Trish
 

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For me personally, it would be a no.

Mom has a deficient heart certification and an out of date eye certification. Also troubling is that this is a pretty tight line breeding on this girl. Pedigree: Am CH Matigan Tiger Lily She died at just over 5 from Lymphoma. The. On has no titles and the dad only has an Int. Ch. that can be earn in one day by alldogs entered regardless of placement. These are not dogs I would condpsider to be proven in competition.

For me, I see too much cancer risk, no proven parents, and insufficient health certifications for a very high price.

This breeder seems to have been more in line with what I would want years ago. Perhaps they do have a pairing that would be worth the price to me, but it is not this one.
 

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I agree w LJACK.... the heart is actually enough for me, especially since the breeder's other dogs have correct clearances.
 

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Thank you so much for the information. I had the same concern with the dam having lymphoma. I know nothing about how line breeding works but they also have another commonality in the lineage I think. Holly I believe is again on both sides. I’m not certain as it’s not in front of me right now.

Is there a guide or resource where I can learn about this?

I’m so grateful to you guys for the help. I am going to let the breeder know that I will pass on the pup.

I’ll likely check in again for your opinions as my search continues.

Trish
 

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Thank you so much for the information. I had the same concern with the dam having lymphoma. I know nothing about how line breeding works but they also have another commonality in the lineage I think. Holly I believe is again on both sides. I’m not certain as it’s not in front of me right now.

Is there a guide or resource where I can learn about this?

I’m so grateful to you guys for the help. I am going to let the breeder know that I will pass on the pup.

I’ll likely check in again for your opinions as my search continues.

Trish
This is where I was reading about it: A Beginner?s Guide to COI | Dog Breed Health

But like I said, I'm a total newb regarding this aspect.

Regarding breeders and the search, if you're comfortable with SoCal there is a whole thread of breeders somewhere on the forum and you can reach out to the San Diego County Golden Retriever Club and also to the Greater Los Angeles County Golden Retriever Club for puppy referrals. :)
 

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Hello, all! Reviving this thread to ask for guidance on this same litter.

We put a deposit down on a Shadalane ‘last of the litter’ puppy yesterday with a plan to pick him up tomorrow. However, I just got a call from Shadalane saying that this particular puppy will not be able to come home with us as today they found that he has a heart murmur. However, they advised that we can have the pick of the litter tomorrow for the exact litter mentioned in this thread, which was dropped off by Bonanza a couple of days ago.

Are the “no’s” in this thread specifically tailored for someone wanting a show quality pup OR does what you are seeing make you think that first-time golden owners may not want one of these pups? We are getting a pup as a family dog and companion and so our goal is to find a healthy and happy pup that will live as long as can be expected for a well-loved family dog; there is no intent to show.

We do know that there are no guarantees made with pups, just like people, and so nobody can predict with certainty with health problems one may have later. However, is what you are seeing indicate with a high probability that something will happen with these guys? We are not used to reading OFA certs and combing through lineage and so any guidance is appreciated!
 

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To me “family pet” is the most important job a dog has. Health and cancer risk in my opinion are not something that is solely the concern of “Show” dogs. The deficient heart certification and tight breeding on a dog who die of cancer young would cause me to recommend skipping for any buyer.
 

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To me “family pet” is the most important job a dog has. Health and cancer risk in my opinion are not something that is solely the concern of “Show” dogs. The deficient heart certification and tight breeding on a dog who die of cancer young would cause me to recommend skipping for any buyer.
Thank you! This is helpful. Talking with my fiancé about it now.
So, with the cancer risk, should none of the pups in Tiger Lily’s litter have continued to be bred? No sarcasm here at all - we just don’t know how high of a health risk for the grandpups this truly is. Would a good breeder have stopped breeding the pups immediately when their mom died?

And the deficient heart cert - maybe I read too fast - is just out of date or was there a problem I didn’t see? Haven’t read those before.

Thanks again for a super quick response!
 

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Thank you! This is helpful. Talking with my fiancé about it now.
So, with the cancer risk, should none of the pups in Tiger Lily’s litter have continued to be bred? No sarcasm here at all - we just don’t know how high of a health risk for the grandpups this truly is. Would a good breeder have stopped breeding the pups immediately when their mom died?
Every breeder has to make those tough decisions themselves. What I would do, is I would not double down on early cancer deaths. If I had a Tiger Lily offspring, I woul try to find as long lived lines as I could to breed to if, I bred them at all. Instead these puppies are the result of a breeding where Tiger Lilly is both the father’s mother and the mother’s grandmother. So they have concentrated the genes of Tiger Lily in these puppies and since she died very young of cancer, that might be concentrated in the puppies.
 

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And the deficient heart cert - maybe I read too fast - is just out of date or was there a problem I didn’t see? Haven’t read those before.
No, it is not expired. It was not done by a veterinarian with the appropriate training for Golden Retrievers. Goldens have very serious life threatening heart diseases that are hereditary. A Cardiologist auscultation or an Echocardiogram is the appropriate testing to certify hearts in our breed. Rosa does not have that. Hers was done by an everyday pet vet as opposed to a vet with the additional training and knowledge to earn the Cardiologist designation.

Research SAS heart disease before thinking about a puppy from a parent who was not certified by a cardiologist.
 

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Heart should be done by a cardiologist not your regular vet. I'm no breeder so couldn't answer the question of cancer. But I will tell you that I lost my last golden just after she turned 5. When I went to put the information into k9data I realized her sire also died at age 8 from the same issue. When I notified the breeder it turns out several dogs in that line all died young from the same kidney issue.
So for me... I would not continue to breed her but that's just a personal opinion.
 

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For me personally, it would be a no.

Mom has a deficient heart certification and an out of date eye certification. Also troubling is that this is a pretty tight line breeding on this girl. Pedigree: Am CH Matigan Tiger Lily She died at just over 5 from Lymphoma. The. On has no titles and the dad only has an Int. Ch. that can be earn in one day by alldogs entered regardless of placement. These are not dogs I would condpsider to be proven in competition.

For me, I see too much cancer risk, no proven parents, and insufficient health certifications for a very high price.

This breeder seems to have been more in line with what I would want years ago. Perhaps they do have a pairing that would be worth the price to me, but it is not this one.

Agree with this. For $2,500, all updated clearances, AKC CH, and performance titles at the highest levels (MACH, OTCH, MH). Plus, a healthier pedigree. For example, this litter https://www.gaylans.com/puppies/ (Stanley X Paige) is $2,500 (they are all spoken for, but just giving you an example of what to expect for $2,500). I know that may not be what you are looking for, but look at health tests, titles, pedigree, etc. of this litter compared to the breeder you are looking at.
 
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