Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 79 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Earlier this year I posted on this website as I was dealing with a puppy that had a HORRIBLE reaction to Royal Canin GR puppy food. After almost 2 months I successfully switched him to Zignature at the advice of a pet food store owner. I now have just found out about DCM and it appears Zignature fed dogs have a very high percentage of dogs with DCM. Joined the Facebook group and have read about which foods meet the WSAVA guidelines. Rotal Canin, ProPlan and Eukanuba.

Royal Canin is out for me due to the previous experience and I've read some dogs have had a hard time transitioning to ProPlan. I feel better about the ingredients in the Farmina Cod, but I may be letting my past view of Purina foods cloud my judgement to be honest.

With the horrendous time we had trying to switch him to a new food I want to make sure I'm not just switching him to a food that made sense to me as a human, but may not be in the best interest of my dog, as I have found out with Zignature.

For what it's worth, his vet is not up on he DCM issue (I had to send them the link to the UC Davis website in order to send sample in for taurine testing.) As a matter of fact, when I brought my puppy in for his first exam I was told make sure he gets large breed puppy food- any large breed puppy food is fine. Just this week I overhead the receptionist telling a customer on the phone "any dog food you can get at PetSmart is good- they only carry really good food."

Does anyone have extensive experience with feeding Farmina to their Golden's? I'd love to hear the good and the bad as well so I can make an informed decision. Also, does anyone know exactly why it is NOT approved by WSAVA? Any red flags?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,558 Posts
Sorry I don't have any experience with these brands. We have had good success with Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy and Adult and Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy. Pro Plan has a Sensitive Skin and Stomach that might work. Are there other options for vets near you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
I am not sure why Farmina may not meet the guidelines. Most companies fail on the question of

#1 Do you employ a full time qualified nutritionist? Appropriate qualifications are either a PhD in animal nutrition or board-certification by the American College of Veterinary Nutrition (ACVN) or the European College of Veterinary Comparative Nutrition (ECVCN). What is this nutritionist’s name and qualifications? (Many dog food companies employ consultants who work for a number of companies rather than work as actual employees developing foods for the company.)

I did check the group on Facebook, and according to Dr. Stern, they did not have a board certified veterinary nutritionist on board as of June. There is a good discussion of Farmina on the Taurine Deficiency in Golden Retrievers FB group initiated by Sydney Waring on June 4, 2018.

I feed ProPlan Sport and my dogs have always done well on it. Many of my puppies are on ProPlan Sensitive Skin and Stomach. They don't Have issues but don’t need the extra calories in the Sport version.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
There are many vets in my area, but it's hard to find a good one. I did have an amazing vet clinic nearby with most of the vets UC Davis grads (about an hour from me) but they were bought out by VCA and it's never been the same since. Vets are given too little time to treat their patients and prices have done nothing but increase greatly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
There are no WSAVA approved foods per se. There are foods that meet WSAVA guidelines though. Farmina does not meet WSAVA guidelines for one reason because they do not perform scientific feeding trials. Currently there are 5 brands that meet WSAVA guidelines and there are more to follow hopefully in the future if food producers hire full-time board certified animal nutritionists and qualified personnel to handle this work. There is a discussion on this topic on Facebook called Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy and the group has over 1000 veterinary professionals, nutritionists and about 22,500 members so far. Here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TaurineDCM/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I am not sure why Farmina may not meet the guidelines.
Farmina claims that they do not perform scientific feeding trials. They send food home and use that method in lieu of real scientific feeding trials in a someone controlled environment where no other foods, treats or incidental nutrients are part of the mix.
 

·
Debbie624
Joined
·
314 Posts
I am wondering the same. Hopefully someone here can comment. I am starting to really research this as I am waiting for the next puppy.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
Purina Pro Plan meets the WSAVA guidelines as does Royal Canin. I'd go with PPP personally. I still really like the Farmina Ancestral grain but I also rotate manufacturers and formulas regularly so my dogs change food every 2-3 months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,369 Posts
Purina Pro Plan meets the WSAVA guidelines as does Royal Canin. I'd go with PPP personally. I still really like the Farmina Ancestral grain but I also rotate manufacturers and formulas regularly so my dogs change food every 2-3 months.


I’ve had Charlie and Rocky on Farmina AG for a couple of months now. We’re still having some issues with loose stools and bad gas. Not going to switch anything until after Charlie’s next echo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Golden Ret Enthusiast
Joined
·
1,423 Posts
Purina Pro Plan meets the WSAVA guidelines as does Royal Canin. I'd go with PPP personally. I still really like the Farmina Ancestral grain but I also rotate manufacturers and formulas regularly so my dogs change food every 2-3 months.

Just something to think about. Changing your dogs food that frequently means their skin and coat is always in flux. Changing foods will have the skin go through a change from the inside out which takes 4-6 weeks for the change to happen *think dry and changing to correct that). Then the coat can't change once outside the skin. You can have better oils on the skin to help the coat but not change the coat itself. So short hair dogs take 8-10 weeks to grow out a full coat and a long hair dog can take up to 5 months. It's what grows out of the corrected skin is where you get a changed coat. So foods that aren't designed to change or switching brands should be done every 8-10 months at best. You will notice a better coat generally if you don't switch so often and let the good foods settle the system so to speak.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
That's fine, but they have lovely coats and we haven't had a single skin issue among the 4 of them. They do really well.
 

·
Debbie624
Joined
·
314 Posts
Purina Pro Plan meets the WSAVA guidelines as does Royal Canin. I'd go with PPP personally. I still really like the Farmina Ancestral grain but I also rotate manufacturers and formulas regularly so my dogs change food every 2-3 months.
I rotated Callie's food every 3 or 4 weeks. Her coat was beautiful and no real issues with scratching or dry skin. Really, she was quite healthy. We rotated between Fromm and Zignature mostly and all grain free. She ate kibble 2 meals a day, and Instinct Raw once a day. Unfortunately the research on DCM came out the day after we lost her. I don't believe it was DCM that caused her to pass as the ER vet believed was a blood clot due to the TTA surgery 3 weeks prior. But my question now is what do I feed the new puppy when she comes. I am reading Farmina is good and this was recommended by the health food pet store we shopped at. But its a boutique food which many are saying to avoid the boutique food bc of lack of nutritionists on staff to do testing. Do you worry about this? Have you tested your goldens for DCM? I would like to do what you are doing, rotating Purina Pro Plan (since this is recommended by Dr. Stern) with more holistic brands like Farmina or OPen Farm. Would love your thoughts and anyone else here in this thread. Thanks
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
I don't worry about it personally, but I've also never fed a grain free food. I haven't done any DCM testing but my youngest goes for an echocardiogram in a few months. Farmina Ancestral grain includes grain and that's the only line I've tried. I think it meets all but one of the guidelines and I really like the brand after speaking with several Golden retriever breeders whom feed it to all of their dogs. Id see if PPP works for your puppy and then you can always talk to your vet about rotating if you want to try it.
 

·
Debbie624
Joined
·
314 Posts
I don't worry about it personally, but I've also never fed a grain free food. I haven't done any DCM testing but my youngest goes for an echocardiogram in a few months. Farmina Ancestral grain includes grain and that's the only line I've tried. I think it meets all but one of the guidelines and I really like the brand after speaking with several Golden retriever breeders whom feed it to all of their dogs. Id see if PPP works for your puppy and then you can always talk to your vet about rotating if you want to try it.
Thanks. And one more question. Do you feed a PPP specifically for puppies or the sport one? I've read here that some people are feeding the sport PPP to puppies. With Callie, I made sure the phosphorus, I believe, was balanced with something else (I dont remember) to make sure she didn't grow too fast which would put her at risk of bone or ligament problems. Was recommended by the owner of my health food pet store.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,373 Posts
It's probably calcium ratio that they talked about. I did do the PPP Sport after 6 months. I haven't checked their puppy formulas yet but I need to.
 

·
Golden Ret Enthusiast
Joined
·
1,423 Posts
For Large Breed puppy food you want a not higher then a 1.4:1 ratio of Calcium to Phosphorus. Phos inhibits calcium absorption. The ratio can be 1.1:1 to 1.4:1. Regular puppy food and adult foods can be as much as 2:1.


Also, Phosphorus should never be above .8% (.9% on a dry matter basis) or you run the risk of kidney disease down the road as it's not protein that cause the kidney disease but the phosphorus in the protein.
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
Top