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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
after looking at local reputable breeders such as Kalm Seas, Penny Lane and Harborview i have realized these are very costly dogs with a long waitlist.

as i continued my search, i have found a few local to me family breeders that are within my budget but don't have the "cache" of the bigger breeders.

places i am looking:

Austin Wanner

Maureen Quinlan

Marian Hiemstra (Maplemoon Kennel)


any thoughts on this approach? this will be my first dog so i obviously want to find the best dog i can.

any others to recommend?
 

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Puddles
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I'm no expert but getting a golden without proper clearances might save you some money on the front end of ownership but certainly is a risky choice in the long run.

Search the forum and read how many people have puppies with elbow or hip dysplasia and how expensive the surgery is to correct as well as all the pain meds required to live with this problem. The breed also has many issues with eyes and heart problems. I understand budget restrictions but this is a really big risk to take to save money on the purchase price.

Maybe someone else on the forum has better advice for you. Maybe get insurance quickly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm no expert but getting a golden without proper clearances might save you some money on the front end of ownership but certainly is a risky choice in the long run.

Search the forum and read how many people have puppies with elbow or hip dysplasia and how expensive the surgery is to correct as well as all the pain meds required to live with this problem. The breed also has many issues with eyes and heart problems. I understand budget restrictions but this is a really big risk to take to save money on the purchase price.

Maybe someone else on the forum has better advice for you. Maybe get insurance quickly?
why wouldn't they have proper clearances?
 

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why wouldn't they have proper clearances?
Because dogs with proper clearances aren't sold for $1000. You have to make a decision if you can find a nice family breeder with no clearances or pay the amount that a reputable breeder with clearances will offer. Read up what clearances on the breeding parents actually are.
 

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Puddles
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That would be a good question to ask the breeders you listed, you can look up info. on OFA.org. The 4 basics are heart (by cardiologist) eyes and this is only good for 12 months, hips & elbows. If they have hips and no elbows it usually means they did not pass... same things for hips if elbows are present. I'm still learning how to read these things. I will leave it up to the experts on this forum to do a more detailed search for you.

Anyone out there want to take a better look?
 

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If you have the registered names of the mom and dad from a litter your looking at I am sure someone here can help see if there are clearances.
 

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I bought my dog from a "family breeder" 4 years ago. I love him immensely. He was $800. I have spent $3,000-$5,000/year since on medical issues. I will continue to do whatever it takes to keep him healthy and happy. I am also lucky to be in a position to do so. I cannot get insurance for him because I didn't get it when he was a puppy and by the time I tried, they excluded pretty much everything as a pre-existing condition.
 

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None of the breeders you've chose have complete clearances.

The two dogs Austin Wanner is breeding (Dam: Wanner's Macy Sire: Spring Grove's Sir Tuckerson James) have absolutely no clearances. They aren't on k9data either, which means I can't tell you how old they are (if they're younger than 2, they won't have complete clearances anyway). Because I can't find these dogs on a public database, I can't tell you the history of clearances.

Maureen Quinlan is breeding Eldorado's Last King Of Merimaur x Merimaur How High My Irish Sky. The Eldorado sire has complete clearances (except eyes are out of date). On the other hand, the dam has all her clearances except her eyes. It's entirely possible that the dam has her eye clearance and the breeder just hasn't sent them in, so I'd contact her and ask.

The issue I see is that there isn't a history of complete clearances behind either the sire or dam. On the sire's side, neither of his parents have their heart or eye clearances. The history of clearances after that decreases - some of the sire's parents' parents have their hip clearances but not their elbow, or have some clearances but not the other. The issue with having a hip clearance but not the elbow clearance (or vice versa) is that hips and elbows are usually done together, so if the hip clearance is there but not the elbow, the dog probably failed the elbow clearance. Same issue on the dam's side. If I were looking for a dog, I'd skip this breeder.

Maplemoon Kennel is breeding Maplemoons Lunar Eclipse (dam) to Stoneledge Key to Triumph (sire).
The dam has all her clearances, and both her parents have all their clearances. However, the sire doesn't have complete clearances (only his hips and elbows) and his sire doesn't have parents listed on OFA so you don't have enough history of clearance (you should have at least five generations of complete clearances). The dam's dam's parents don't have complete clearances either.

tl;dr I wouldn't buy a puppy from any of the three breeders you mentioned. Incomplete or inconsistent clearances is the biggest issue. For the first two breeders, I couldn't find anything besides litter advertisements on the AKC Marketplace and breeder.net. The third breeder knows what health clearances are needed but chose a sire that doesn't have complete clearances, which is worse imo. It's one thing to be ignorant, it's another to know something and then just forego it. She owns the sire too, so there's no reason the sire doesn't have complete clearances.

On the other hand, you'd have a much much better chance with a puppy from Kalm Sea, Penny Lane, or Harborview. I have a Kalm Sea pup myself, so I'm slightly biased there. But Penny Lane and Harborview produce gorgeous dogs. I'm currently looking for a breeder* for my second puppy (way way in the future) and they're both on my list of breeders to contact.

*Not that there's anything wrong with my current boy's breeder - far from it actually. I just really like what certain other breeders are producing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
None of the breeders you've chose have complete clearances.

The two dogs Austin Wanner is breeding (Dam: Wanner's Macy Sire: Spring Grove's Sir Tuckerson James) have absolutely no clearances. They aren't on k9data either, which means I can't tell you how old they are (if they're younger than 2, they won't have complete clearances anyway). Because I can't find these dogs on a public database, I can't tell you the history of clearances.

Maureen Quinlan is breeding Eldorado's Last King Of Merimaur x Merimaur How High My Irish Sky. The Eldorado sire has complete clearances (except eyes are out of date). On the other hand, the dam has all her clearances except her eyes. It's entirely possible that the dam has her eye clearance and the breeder just hasn't sent them in, so I'd contact her and ask.

The issue I see is that there isn't a history of complete clearances behind either the sire or dam. On the sire's side, neither of his parents have their heart or eye clearances. The history of clearances after that decreases - some of the sire's parents' parents have their hip clearances but not their elbow, or have some clearances but not the other. The issue with having a hip clearance but not the elbow clearance (or vice versa) is that hips and elbows are usually done together, so if the hip clearance is there but not the elbow, the dog probably failed the elbow clearance. Same issue on the dam's side. If I were looking for a dog, I'd skip this breeder.

Maplemoon Kennel is breeding Maplemoons Lunar Eclipse (dam) to Stoneledge Key to Triumph (sire).
The dam has all her clearances, and both her parents have all their clearances. However, the sire doesn't have complete clearances (only his hips and elbows) and his sire doesn't have parents listed on OFA so you don't have enough history of clearance (you should have at least five generations of complete clearances). The dam's dam's parents don't have complete clearances either.

tl;dr I wouldn't buy a puppy from any of the three breeders you mentioned. Incomplete or inconsistent clearances is the biggest issue. For the first two breeders, I couldn't find anything besides litter advertisements on the AKC Marketplace and breeder.net. The third breeder knows what health clearances are needed but chose a sire that doesn't have complete clearances, which is worse imo. It's one thing to be ignorant, it's another to know something and then just forego it. She owns the sire too, so there's no reason the sire doesn't have complete clearances.

On the other hand, you'd have a much much better chance with a puppy from Kalm Sea, Penny Lane, or Harborview. I have a Kalm Sea pup myself, so I'm slightly biased there. But Penny Lane and Harborview produce gorgeous dogs. I'm currently looking for a breeder* for my second puppy (way way in the future) and they're both on my list of breeders to contact.

*Not that there's anything wrong with my current boy's breeder - far from it actually. I just really like what certain other breeders are producing.

wow :surprise: i could not have asked for a better response. thanks to everyone and special thanks to you.

we've filled out forms for Kalm Seas, Penny Lane, Harborview, Golden Glory and Goldenway.

will keep everyone updated.

thanks again!
 

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You do not say where you live, but by the names of the breeders, it sounds like the North East. I am not sure how much they charge, but I do know the prices are higher in that area of the country. If you are willing to expand your search to the Midwest, you can find golden puppies from reputable breeders with full clearances a little bit cheaper. The two coasts tend to be higher, partly because everything is higher ( vet bills, food, fuel, etc ).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You do not say where you live, but by the names of the breeders, it sounds like the North East. I am not sure how much they charge, but I do know the prices are higher in that area of the country. If you are willing to expand your search to the Midwest, you can find golden puppies from reputable breeders with full clearances a little bit cheaper. The two coasts tend to be higher, partly because everything is higher ( vet bills, food, fuel, etc ).
yes, i am in NJ and willing to travel to NY, CT, PA, etc.

we are going to up the budget to an absolute max of $2000.

might be a silly question but do some breeders "specialize" in temperament (ie i would prefer to try and get a more-laid-back dog as this is my first vs. a super excited and rambunctious one).

any other breeder recommendations other than what i listed are more than appreciated.

thanks!
 

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Just beware that just because a dog costs $2000 doesn't mean it's a good breeder. Still verify everything. People on here will be willing to help. There are a lot of scammers out there over charging. A good breeder will know the puppies. If you tell them what you are looking for they will pick a puppy that is right for you. Don't expect to pick the puppy yourself.

Golden puppies are not laid back. That won't come for a couple of years. But a breeder will be able to tell which one might be more on the laid back side.
 

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...
might be a silly question but do some breeders "specialize" in temperament (ie i would prefer to try and get a more-laid-back dog as this is my first vs. a super excited and rambunctious one).

any other breeder recommendations other than what i listed are more than appreciated.

thanks!
Honestly a truly good hobby breeder will place a lot of emphasis on the correct Golden temperament. But understand that you may have a different idea of what that means than the breeder. You may want to familiarize yourself with the Golden Retriever breed standard: https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed/akc-breed-standard/

"Primarily a hunting dog" is not just lip service. These dogs were bred to retrieve over short distances on land and water as hard as they can go with short rests in between, most of the day. They are working dogs and if you are wanting a laid back dog, you will want to check into rescue and adopting an older Golden. For the first few years, it takes a strong commitment on a DAILY basis to training, exercise and management to turn a Golden puppy into a great family dog. The first couple years can be an exercise in patience because Golden puppies tend to be rambunctious and excitable and have to be taught self control and manners.

Here is some reading for you: http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...earch-you-will-get-out-what-you-put-into.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com...eder-puppy/387897-so-youre-looking-puppy.html
 

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I have a Kalm Sea boy, so if you do end up getting a puppy from Sue, let me know! Jansun goldens is another breeder you can contact. No relation except that one of her boys is my boy's sire. Of course, do your due diligence in checking for clearances (or post registered names on here and someone will help), but I'm under the impression that Jansun is a pretty well known, reputable breeder. I remember there was someone on here who was really happy with their Jansun puppy.
 
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You may have your heart set on a puppy but have you considered rescue? They have puppies too. I have had several golden rescues that were wonderful dogs, the great part about adopting an adult dog is you know the temperament & energy level, they are usually house broken, the cost is less and they will already have shots & spay/neutered. No, they won't have clearances but the investment will be small.

When I first decided not to rescue but to actually buy a dog (1st for me) I contacted the GR group in my area. We drove out to check on a momma dog they were planning to breed and left with a WONDERFUL dog just under a year old. She was only $800. and came from a great line and clearances that went back for decades, she just didn't meet their breeding guidelines. I'll post her picture, she was perfect to me :) Sorry about the duplicate photo, don't know how to get rid of it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
None of the breeders you've chose have complete clearances.

The two dogs Austin Wanner is breeding (Dam: Wanner's Macy Sire: Spring Grove's Sir Tuckerson James) have absolutely no clearances. They aren't on k9data either, which means I can't tell you how old they are (if they're younger than 2, they won't have complete clearances anyway). Because I can't find these dogs on a public database, I can't tell you the history of clearances.

Maureen Quinlan is breeding Eldorado's Last King Of Merimaur x Merimaur How High My Irish Sky. The Eldorado sire has complete clearances (except eyes are out of date). On the other hand, the dam has all her clearances except her eyes. It's entirely possible that the dam has her eye clearance and the breeder just hasn't sent them in, so I'd contact her and ask.

The issue I see is that there isn't a history of complete clearances behind either the sire or dam. On the sire's side, neither of his parents have their heart or eye clearances. The history of clearances after that decreases - some of the sire's parents' parents have their hip clearances but not their elbow, or have some clearances but not the other. The issue with having a hip clearance but not the elbow clearance (or vice versa) is that hips and elbows are usually done together, so if the hip clearance is there but not the elbow, the dog probably failed the elbow clearance. Same issue on the dam's side. If I were looking for a dog, I'd skip this breeder.

Maplemoon Kennel is breeding Maplemoons Lunar Eclipse (dam) to Stoneledge Key to Triumph (sire).
The dam has all her clearances, and both her parents have all their clearances. However, the sire doesn't have complete clearances (only his hips and elbows) and his sire doesn't have parents listed on OFA so you don't have enough history of clearance (you should have at least five generations of complete clearances). The dam's dam's parents don't have complete clearances either.

tl;dr I wouldn't buy a puppy from any of the three breeders you mentioned. Incomplete or inconsistent clearances is the biggest issue. For the first two breeders, I couldn't find anything besides litter advertisements on the AKC Marketplace and breeder.net. The third breeder knows what health clearances are needed but chose a sire that doesn't have complete clearances, which is worse imo. It's one thing to be ignorant, it's another to know something and then just forego it. She owns the sire too, so there's no reason the sire doesn't have complete clearances.

On the other hand, you'd have a much much better chance with a puppy from Kalm Sea, Penny Lane, or Harborview. I have a Kalm Sea pup myself, so I'm slightly biased there. But Penny Lane and Harborview produce gorgeous dogs. I'm currently looking for a breeder* for my second puppy (way way in the future) and they're both on my list of breeders to contact.

*Not that there's anything wrong with my current boy's breeder - far from it actually. I just really like what certain other breeders are producing.
UPDATE

full disclosure i was inquiring about breeders for my impulsive sister who really wanted a dog.

of course, she ignored all of the wonderful advice provided here and went with the last dog remaining from Austin Wanner - who i cannot find ANY information about.

she assures me it has all of its tests/clearances even though she has no idea what clearances needed.

is there anyway to dig a little bit more into this guy?
 

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So I googled Austin Wanner and found his Facebook. He's not very active on it - mostly things about sports, nothing about dogs. Interestingly, he's either a junior or senior in high school.l I looked on Twitter and found his twitter. Again, nothing related to dogs on his twitter feed, just sports related stuff. Found his sister's twitter, she posted a couple pictures of a puppy that looks similar to the puppies in the AKC ad. You can also see some of her hair and clothes and part of her face in the pictures on the AKC ad so I'm fairly certain they're the same person. Found a link to her VSCO - found more pictures of the puppies and multiple pictures of golden retrievers, including a picture of her and another girl holding a litter of week old puppies. The sister is in college. Found the sister's Facebook page. Her profile picture is her (wearing the same shirt she's wearing in the AKC picture) with a 6-7 week old puppy. Apparently someone in her immediate family breeds dogs because there's a picture from 2015 of her and another girl with a litter of young puppies in their laps. Found the mom's facebook from the sister's facebook. No dog related posts. Can't find the dad's facebook.

I'm 96% sure I found the right people (±four percent - margin of error), so that makes me really confused why they're selling puppies under the name of Austin Wanner. He's no more than 17-18 years old. His sister seems to be the one that's more dog-oriented, so I don't know why she didn't use her name.

ETA: I may have terribly misunderstood what you meant by "is there anyway to dig a little bit more into this guy?"
 
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So I googled Austin Wanner and found his Facebook. He's not very active on it - mostly things about sports, nothing about dogs. Interestingly, he's either a junior or senior in high school.l I looked on Twitter and found his twitter. Again, nothing related to dogs on his twitter feed, just sports related stuff. Found his sister's twitter, she posted a couple pictures of a puppy that looks similar to the puppies in the AKC ad. You can also see some of her hair and clothes and part of her face in the pictures on the AKC ad so I'm fairly certain they're the same person. Found a link to her VSCO - found more pictures of the puppies and multiple pictures of golden retrievers, including a picture of her and another girl holding a litter of week old puppies. The sister is in college. Found the sister's Facebook page. Her profile picture is her (wearing the same shirt she's wearing in the AKC picture) with a 6-7 week old puppy. Apparently someone in her immediate family breeds dogs because there's a picture from 2015 of her and another girl with a litter of young puppies in their laps. Found the mom's facebook from the sister's facebook. No dog related posts. Can't find the dad's facebook.

I'm 96% sure I found the right people (±four percent - margin of error), so that makes me really confused why they're selling puppies under the name of Austin Wanner. He's no more than 17-18 years old. His sister seems to be the one that's more dog-oriented, so I don't know why she didn't use her name.

ETA: I may have terribly misunderstood what you meant by "is there anyway to dig a little bit more into this guy?"
i did the exact same research you did. came across his Facebook, her Twitter and then her Facebook. she certainly seems to be the "breeder".

my sister said they seemed like a very nice, down-to-earth family - which means exactly zilch in the grand scheme of things.

now i'm just curious if i can find out more about this dog. but she's unwilling to tell me as i think she's afraid to learn the truth.
 

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You could contact the breeder and ask about the mother and father.
 
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