Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

** Ear Medicating Help Desperately Needed

5K views 52 replies 20 participants last post by  Belle's Mom 
#1 ·
Well, Max's ear infection has gone from minor to MAJOR in a week. We had him into the vet's for the flu booster on Sat. & a follow-up on the ear. OMG...it's even worse than I feared. SO, they sent us home with an oral antibiotic, an anti-inflammatory, the ear flush, the otic antibiotic AND the sedative, because Max goes positively CRAZY - (I mean full-blown panic attack) whenever I try to clean/medicate his ears. Has from the very beginning, even though I've always cleaned the outer ear parts with very little problem. Even the vet couldn't manage it in the office, Max bucked & semi-growled, which is completely unlike him. He's obviously scared, and must be in pain, because that dog will let me do ANYTHING to him. Has since puppyhood - I worked very hard to make sure that if he needed grooming or treatment, people would be able to touch his mouth, feet, tail, ears, etc. (He's let me do things I would never believe an animal would allow his human to do!), but this infection is SO bad that he fights like a wild animal each evening when I need to clean or medicate his ears. The sedatives are having a 'next-to-nothing' effect. The fear & adrenaline rush are apparently so severe that their overcoming the medication, as he still fights badly enough that I've got huge BLACK bruises all over my legs & arms....and this is even with DH trying to help me hold him down. Not only that, but we had to buy a muzzle, not because he's trying to bite (he's not), but (because the vet advised) having the muzzle across their nose normally makes them more docile. NOPE. I have no idea what to do next. I put in another call for the vet, in hopes of upping the sedative dose to where it does some good. If we can't get the infection under control soon, we'll have to take him back to the vet, have him put under general anesthesia and the ear flushed. That will help, but the infection may reoccur & we'll be right back here again, and I hate to put him through that if it won't actually solve the problem.

Not to mention that financially, after already spending $200 this weekend, I can't afford to have it done right now.

The absolute worst part for me is knowing that I'm traumatizing him while trying to treat the infection. Seeing the fear in his eyes is breaking my heart and having him avoid me for hours afterward is truly awful.

Any advice on how to perform this procedure without further trauma will be greatly appreciated. Note - I need to put the cleaner/flush in his ears, squish it around as long as possible before he shakes it out and then wait 30 minutes before putting the antibiotic ointment into the ear canal, so it's actually TWO times a night we're going through this.

Help! Thank you,
Worried Mom.....
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Gosh, I am not sure what you can do, but I just wanted to let you know that I am sorry that you all are going through this. Is he food motivated? What if your husband gives hime a GREAT treat while you put the meds in?? I hope someone gives you some advice.
 
#3 ·
I feel for you. Shadow doesn't mind my cleaning his ears if he sees that I only have a papertowel to wipe them out. If he knows meds are coming or liquid is going to be squirt in his ears, he paces around the kitchen table.

I don't know why, but I have found if I don't handle him too much and let him do his pacing and jump on the chair and hide his ears, I can approach him after he settles and tell him to "stay." It seems the more I try to force my self on him, the more resistant he becomes. Shadow has never growled at me though. He does have longer legs than I do arms, so he has been able to push me away. I sometimes get silly when this happens.

I realize your situation is more difficult.

This is a dumb suggestion, but have you tried smearing peanut butter on your fridge or some place where he can concentrate on the treat and not the treatment?
 
#4 ·
I'm sorry! This is tough, but you'll get through it.

1st, contact your vet- you may need to increase the dosage of meds to get him to calm down. How long in advance are you giving it?

2nd, it is a 2 man job. One person to restrain, another person to administer treatment. Best way to hold:

One person put left arm under belly, other arm underneath the head- around the neck. Elbow should be pointing outward so that the head can't move much. Squeeze tight to your body. You won't hurt him. He may buck around and squirm, just keep your position. Usually they will relent.
 
#5 ·
The only way I can trim Cody's feet/nails is by smearing pnut butter on his ribbed rubber bone or braided bully stick. Then he's in seventh heaven with his treat and I can do what's needed. Might be worth a shot.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for all the support & ideas, but although he's normally very food motivated, they have zero effect. He's way too stressed to have any interest in treats, peanut butter, toys, etc.

Aaaahhhh.....still waiting for the vet to return my call about upping in sedative dosage. I followed the instructions & waited at least 30 min. between medication & attempting to approach for ear cleaning the first night. Last night, I waited an hour, until he seemed really sleepy & loopy. Nope...as soon as I approached, he was up and in panic-flight. This is so hard!
 
#8 ·
Try taking him into the bathroom or laundry room so you have a smaller space for him to move away from you. It seems to help mine a little when they realize there is no where for them to run.

What kind of sedative are you using?
 
#9 ·
I am sending you lots of empathy. One of my guys will buck and cry whenever a vet tech tries to express his anal sacs and I spent 30 minutes chasing my other guy across a room (a small room) so I could take his temperature. Don't worry about the guilt feelings because your dog loves you unconditionally. Besides, you are doing this to help him feel better.

I wish I could help you more.
 
#10 ·
Thanks everyone....I've tried the smaller room (bathroom & blocked hallway) - I'm ashamed to admit that last night as a last resort, I even climbed into his crate with him to get the job done. It worked, but I don't ever want to put either of us through that again. Once he realized it was over, he rested his head on my shoulder and I held him on my lap while his breathing returned to normal...well, I guess while BOTH of our breathing returned to normal. I felt so bad for putting him through it, but I'm told I absolutely must get the medication in place!

STILL waiting for the vet to call back. I just don't know what else to try.

The sedative is Ace Promazine (sp?). The vet had Rx'd one or two tabs of 25 mg., as needed, which isn't doing the job. Any suggestions for this? I don't want to OD him, but geez!

Thanks!,
Mercy
 
#12 ·
Swaddling?

I wondered about this, but was afraid to traumatize him even further. It might protect me from more bruises, but I feared that it might make him fight even harder. The 'traumatizing him' part is what's bothering me most of all!

The 'normal' cleaning of the outer & just a bit inside the ear, he's always tolerated pretty well. We've even made a bit of a game out of it, so it's not so hard on him....he'll try to steal the paper towel or tissue I'm wiping with and I'll pretend that he's getting it against my wishes. He chews a scrap or two of it up and spits it out, but this is a totally different situation. (You know, the common golden, "PAPER" game.)

He MUST be in pain to fight me the way he is and even though I'm careful as I can be not to touch the ear with the dispenser, etc., he totally freaks out. I realize that some dogs just can't tolerate having liquid put in their ears & it's pretty obvious I've got one....I just have no choice right now.

I'm so worried that I'll fail getting the medication in place and that failure will result in damage to his hearing or something. :(
 
#13 ·
Marty had acepromazine 25mg after neutering. It TOTALLY knocked him out. Like we had to carry him out to pee. We thought he was in a comma. He would have been around 50lbs at the time.
I can only suggest having the best treat out of his reach while you do his ears. Like you get this AFTER we do thing. Bananas were great for our last golden Riley. I haven't had to use that kind of scheming (yet) on Marty.
 
#14 ·
That's funny.....the first time (after the neuter) when he had the ace promazine 25 mg., it DID knock him out. We were worried about him, he couldn't even walk. We had to carry him out to pee, like you mentioned.

Now, he's taking 50 mg. and is still fighting like a wolverine! I can only assume it's the adrenaline rush from the fear! Poor baby. :uhoh: I wish I could think of something to make this easier on him. I tried all his favorite treats and I'm lucky if he even sniffs it. He'd normally walk miles for the chicken & sweet potato treat, but last night, nada!
 
#15 ·
Swaddling him might actually comfort him. A bit. I don't think he will ever like having his ears cleaned. Once his ears are better, you may want to try to start desensitizing him to the ear cleaners. I know you have worked with him, but after this, you will probably have to start at square one. Poor you and poor puppy!
 
#16 ·
You're right, I'm sure he'll never "like" it, but if I can get him to tolerate it without full blown panic attacks, that, I can deal with. The vet has already told me that if we have to put him under & do the ear flush, it will be a life-long maintenance thing, that we'll have to religiously do the cleaning at least weekly. Oh, joy! BTW, the ear flush under anesthesia will be in the $400-500 range. :doh: OUCH! Any desensitizing I can do will help, I'm sure.

Thanks for the tip! I'll let you know how it goes after tonight's episode. :) Cross your fingers for me, will you?!
 
#18 ·
Call your vet and ask for something else. I'm not a vet. But ace is completely inhumane for behavior modification type settings, such as this. It's commonly recommended for behavior problems by vets who do not have behavior experience or knowledge. It makes him even more sensitive to sounds and other things in his environment, yet it makes it very hard for him to physically respond. It is -very- typical for dogs to "get worse" and require a greater dosage when used in behavior settings. I would stop the ace ASAP and get something else, or figure out alternative ways.

Google "Tuckers Nail Trim" There is an 8 minute video that comes up about a puppy who is super bad about nail trims. Doing that same process but with ears may help....depending on how much pain he is in. ----Every--- golden owner should be training their dogs and puppies to love ear cleaning. All it takes is a bad experience...and if you don't have a super large history of ---super--- high value reinforcement...things can go downhill fast.

Think about heating up the solution before putting it in his ears.

Use high value foods, all his kibbles. Find a clicker trainer near you. Call and schedule an appointment for ASAP to learn more about handling. Or find a vet who specializes in behavior...

This is rough! We went through this in a puppy class last week with a 6 m st bernard who was VERY unhappy about ear cleaning.
 
#21 ·
Thanks RedDogs! I'll check out the video. I googled, but the one that came up was 76 min. long & I can't sit & watch that right now.

I'm a bit confused about the Ace Promazine, though. I was told it was a sedative and should calm him down enough to clean the ears. Do you mean that the medication could actually be putting him into a sensory overload type of reaction? He's MORE sensitive to things because of the medication? If so, it seems like a bad choice for our purposes, I would have thought the vet would be aware of that. :doh:

Thanks for the info, I'll see what alternatives are available. I do know that no medication certainly wasn't working. We've tried high-value treats, warming the solution, muzzle, restraint, pretty much every thing we could think of and everything suggested to us.

Mercy
 
#19 ·
Can you look into a different type of ear cleaner for his ears? Honey has problems with ear infections, but she also had an allergic reaction to the foaming ear cleanser.
The vet said that she had never seen that happen before. The insides of her ears turned bright red and she ran from me if I tried to put cleaner in them. It was weeks before the readness went away. We had to treat her ear infection with an antibiotic, but did not use a wash. She has been somewhat better with other rinses, but the foaming cleanser was horrible. So can your vet recommend a different treatment plan.
 
#20 ·
The one he rx'd is Epi-Otic, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't foam, but that doesn't mean that it agrees with him. I'll check on this with the vet & see if there's an alternative. It never occurred to me that the flush could be irritating.

Thanks for the tip!
Mercy
 
#22 ·
Tuckers nail trim: 7 min long
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEwiH8CeUE

Here is a 2 min clip of Dr. Karen Overall (a veterinary behaviorist) talking about ace and why its SO dangerous for behavior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-GsmrFYHKk


Most vets do not have a lot of behavior education and esp if they haven't been to anything in the past 5 or so years...they're not likely to know what is now known about the drug. I've heard from several vet behavior specialists that ace is so unfortunate for behavior issues. It sedates the dogs...makes it so they can't physically respond, but you're right...they're much more sensitive to things in the environment. Making it a super scary experience and sooo much harder for both you and the dog the next time around.

Go back to high value treats. Will he take a treat at all? (...without you messing with his face, holding the stuff...). Just eating a treat. If he doesn't, wait a bit and try again. Then try petting his shoulder, feeding the treat. Higher up the neck. Higher. Higher. Higher... etc.. super gradual. If he's stressed, you're going too fast.

You may need to go to the vet and get him sedated so they can do a good cleaning. But the struggles you're experincing sound really awful and vets really should NOT be letting that happen. Stressed dogs are not safe to handle, this can impact interactions in the future.

Everyone else... please...pull out a bottle of ear cleaner. Toss treats on the floor, and put the bottle away. Play with your dog's ears. Even your adult dog that is great for everything. Feed him high value treats.... let's prevent this from happening to other families....
 
#24 ·
Hi RedDogs,

Thank you so much for the input. I've put in another call to the vet in hopes of getting an alternative. Thank you for the Dr. Overall clip, I had no idea, even though I had done a (minimum) amount of research on Ace before giving it to him after his neuter in Nov. Shoot! I wish I had seen that before this.

Update....last night's ear cleaning & medicating went a tiny bit better. I had tried the high value treats, warming the solution, etc. All the normal things and nothing worked. I had already given him the higher dosage of Ace, and waited for him to be calmer. I still had a fight on my hands, but it was a little better than the night before. I'm not sure if he's simply resigning to it or if the Ace helped. What confuses me is that he DOES respond physically, even with the Ace on board.

Unfortunately, at this point, there is no way he will let me come near him to clean his ears without some restraint; physical or chemical. The treats simply do not work. If he doesn't see the bottle, he'll take a treat, but he's leery. He simply knows it's time. Other parts of the day, he comes to me for treats and affection quite readily. I did have to restrain him last night and he fought rather vigorously, but I finally laid down with him and hugged him while I did it. THAT was a trick, but it did seem to help him.

I hope to have no battle tonight, but I won't hold my breath. Hopefully, the vet will have an alternative medication for him. I simply don't have the $450 to have Max put under general anesthesia for the flush, (besides the fact that I hate to put him under unnecessarily - I HATE general anesthesia!).

Thanks again!
 
#23 ·
Copper used to take Ace during thunderstorms and it never worked very well. He would fight it off too. He can't hear well now so the thunder phobia is a thing of the past.

Can you ask your vet what other sedatives are available? Maybe there is something else that will work better.

I can't use standard ear drops in my ears since I am allergic to them so ZeppGold's suggestion might help too.
 
#25 ·
I had a dog that was acted quite similar to getting his nails trimmed. I had one groomer use lavender. Looked like it was dried, and she would put it under his nose a bit. She claimed it relaxed both him and her.
 
#29 ·
Hi everyone. I'm a newby with a question. I feel so sorry for you and your dog because I totally relate. My Sarah has the same problem and although she doesn't react that way yet, it's heading there quickly. So my question is this. We've had other goldens in our lives before (both males though) and have never had yeast problems! Is this common? We've spent thousands on Sarah's ears. Honestly! I feel horrible because it's starting to get in the way of how I see her and it's not her fault. The vet wants to spay her believing it will cure the problem. (I think the yeast is affecting her in her privates at times too). It's so expensive considering the money we've spent already and will still have to spend if it doesn't help. Any advice?
 
#30 ·
Gee, I am sorry for your ear problems !
I also have to fight with Trinian to medicate his ears, ( toenails) anything that involves me touching his body... right down to grooming.
I have had to use horse cross ties to be able to do much of anything.
He settles then, and realizes that i am not going to hurt him, but I decided after many rodeos that the horse cross ties worked with the less amount of stress.
He's still a pup, though at 96 pounds he almost outweighs me !!
Good luck with your ear problem !!
 
#31 ·
I am so very sorry you and your baby are going through this!

Ace didn't work for us either. When a dog is already agitated, the ace just seems to make it worse.

Has your vet tried valium or we use Melatonin now for Gunner's anxiety during thunderstorms. It takes about 20 min to kick in.

Praying for your boy!
 
#33 ·
Debles.....

Deb, is the Melatonin OTC or Rx? Can you tell me more? I'd love to find an alternative to the Ace!!

Thanks for the prayers - I can tell that he's trying to please me and cope with what I'm doing, he just isn't capable right now. We're working very hard with clicker training to let me do the cleaning, but as soon as the ear cleaner enters the picture, he panics.

He'll let me touch him anywhere, including the ears, until then. Poor boy!

Thanks in advance...
Mercy
 
#32 ·
Thank you all....unfortunately, no, things haven't gotten any better. We're still using the ace, because it's better than nothing. The vet says there's nothing else I can safely give him at home. I feel there MUST be, but he's not telling.

It's still a major battle every night, but I think the infection is improving. We've also got Max on oral antibiotics, so I assume that has more to do with the improvement than anything else.

We're still hoping to avoid the flush under anesthesia, but I won't know until NEXT Saturday at the follow-up appt. if we succeed.

Thank you all for your support!
Mercy
 
#34 ·
Aww, poor Max (and you). What a stressful situation and I know it well. Had a dog, also named Max with ear problems. I hope his infection goes away soon.

How about trying the Healthy Ear Recipe after this infection is gone just to keep things clear?
 
#35 ·
C's Mom,

Is that the one with the three creams mixed together? Antifungal, antibacterial & something else I can't remember? I had actually bought them and made a mini-batch to start using right before this infection flared up.

If the "Healthy Ear Recipe" you're referring to is different, PLEASE let me know. I'm really going to have to get a handle on the situation after this infection is gone.

Thanks so much!
Mercy
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top