[diane0905]

Again, if you are afraid of this happening.... do not put a long line on your dog. Or leash. Or collar.....

Because if you will not step on a leash or hang onto a leash to stop a dog from lunging after something.... what is the point of having it on the dog?

A dog can hit the end of a long line much harder than he can a leash.

I’ve stepped on a leash early on in his training if he got too excited wanting to meet & greet to prevent him from doing it. I’ve never stepped on a long line except that one time I did.

With a long line, I’ve used it to encourage him to come early on. I was told to drop it before a dog bangs into the end of one.

 

[Megora]

50 feet? Lol

Seriously though - you need to have a harness and 50 ft long line when doing tracking classes.

 

[Megora]

With a long line, I’ve used it to encourage him to come early on. I was told to drop it before a dog bangs into the end of one.

Drop it and let him keep running away????? Crazy.

 

[Megora]

These controversial topic threads usually start out being informative and then somehow turn into pissing contests for some reason. Makes for interesting reading I guess......sort of like a bad novel you can't put down or the low budget horror flick you can't stop watching 'cause you just gotta see what happens next.....

Nope, it's more like one of those formulaic novels where you literally know what will happen next because some people are humorously predictable in their responses.

 

[diane0905]

Drop it and let him keep running away????? Crazy.

No. Lol I used one when Logan was younger and I could get to it.

I can’t even remember what I was trying to do with the 50ft line, but that was later (he was still young, but big enough to move me) and not a good choice.

 

[diane0905]

Seriously though - you need to have a harness and 50 ft long line when doing tracking classes.

I’ve not taken any, but the harness makes sense. I took Logan to nose work class for one session and hated it. Tracking sounds more interesting, but our plate is full. I wonder if the preferred length of line varies for tracking…

 

[Megora]

I can’t even remember what I was trying to do with the 50ft line, but that was later (he was still young, but big enough to move me) and not a good choice.

Obviously a very bad choice if you were not allowed to grab or step on it for fear of... breaking or injuring your dog's neck.......????.... if the dog is full length away and ready to run.

 

[Megora]

I’ve not taken any, but the harness makes sense. I took Logan to nose work class for one session and hated it. Tracking sounds more interesting, but our plate is full. I wonder if the preferred length of line varies for tracking…

When I did it, instructor required a very long line because the dog goes far ahead and you are not guiding or leading the dog at all.

It is a lot of fun. I don't take the classes anymore because the darn tests are always on Sunday mornings and I cannot do Sunday mornings. But a lot of what I learned from them - I've taught all my dogs and used. Things like teaching my dogs to find each other - has been HUGELY useful when we are out in a big hilly field surrounded by heavy overbrush and trees... or places like that.

Nosework as well - I think is very interesting to watch the tests and would like to try at some point. My dogs breeder has done it with her corgis and looks like fun.

 

[diane0905]

Obviously a very bad choice if you were not allowed to grab or step on it for fear of... breaking or injuring your dog's neck.......????.... if the dog is full length away and ready to run.

The bad choice comment was me making a joke about the time I bit it and landed on my back because of a dumb mistake. It was the first and only time I used a 50ft line. There was no allowing or not allowing going on because I was by myself (other than Logan.)

 

[Hildae]

Let's both put our adult dogs out in a field with bunnies and deer running. Completely naked dogs, no collars, no control thingies in your hand.... and let's see what happens.

To be fair, dogs that do hunt and field work are specifically trained to stay at a heel when they see other animals and such running about. It's a core piece of training because if they "break" (take off without being released), they fail a hunt test or field trial. Most of them are pretty darn steady even as early as 6 months. And if you didn't know this, you cannot use e collars in tests/competitions, nor can you use choke chains, pinch or prong collars, generally the dog must be wearing only a flat collar and in fact, usually you cannot even use a leash or touch the dog. The dog must be completely under control without being touched. You will also be in big trouble if you do anything that is even remotely viewed as "intimidating" your dog. That can even include things like snapping your fingers or leaning over them in an intimidating way. Judges want to see a happy dog and willing cooperation, not fear based obedience.

So what I'm saying is, hunting dogs aren't trained in some terrible harsh way, which sometimes seems like what you might think. Perhaps my perception there is wrong, but I wanted to be honest and say it does seem like you think that at times. There are for sure people out there that that misuse e collars, I've seen it, but those people are jerks and not representative of the hunting/field community.

 

[SRW]

Let's both put our adult dogs out in a field with bunnies and deer running. Completely naked dogs, no collars, no control thingies in your hand.... and let's see what happens.

I'm game, is Lily eligible? She is only 15 months old.
FYI, that is par for the course many days in field training and a good share of the time I let may dogs out the front door of my house.

Anyone else here using ecollars and saying it's all you need to have a dog get to be completely off leash

Nobody that knows how to train a dog says that.
If there is any "one thing" you need to train a dog it is the ability to communicate. Sounds simple but it is not.

Just expect them to be honest and open about how they use the collars to train the dogs.

You don't train (or punish) with and e collar, you reinforce taught behavior and correct disobedient behavior.

 

[SRW]

generally the dog must be wearing only a flat collar

No collar at all allowed when running a field trial.
The only training equipment allowed at the line is a whistle.

 

[SRW]

What are you even talking about? Do you know?

Yes, I know.
Have you ever been to a field trial? If so, did you understand what you saw?

 

[Hildae]

No collar at all allowed when running a field trial.
The only training equipment allowed at the line is a whistle.

True I was including hunt tests which allow for a flat collar even though you cannot touch it. I just wanted Megora to understand that no one is standing at the line with an e collar or really anything at all.

 

[Megora]

So what I'm saying is, hunting dogs aren't trained in some terrible harsh way, which sometimes seems like what you might think. Perhaps my perception there is wrong, but I wanted to be honest and say it does seem like you think that at times. There are for sure people out there that that misuse e collars, I've seen it, but those people are jerks and not representative of the hunting/field community.

Again, I have many friends who do field work with their dogs. Golden people, more so people who own labs and FCR's. I know the dogs need to be off leash and are not allowed to wear corrective collars (including ecollars) during tests and trials, but that does not always come across during these completely ridiculous ecollar threads. Because I see some of the commentators as being careless and more interested in arguing for ecollars, that they do not do enough to criticize incorrect use of the ecollars, which we all know happens when regular randos buy the collars to train their dog without taking any classes or anything.

There have been a number of comments here or elsewhere, where people have essentially stated that ecollars mean freedom for their dogs. And from the sounds of it, they fully intend to keep using those ecollars going forward. <= To me, that's something to raise an eyebrow at, but whatever.

But again, the thing that concerns me is that comment you made on the first page - which is one that I have seen. It's not people here who train their dogs and obviously love them who are cruel to their dogs. But they are overly aggressive in selling ecollars as the miracle tool.... to people who through ignorance may be cruel to their dogs.

I have seen at least 3 people get more worked up about the possibility of a dog getting a pop correction on a long line, then they are at the possibility of somebody putting a collar on the dog and carrying on without any training. This is how many of us who absolutely defend the ability of dog trainers to have a fully loaded toolbox, including ecollars and prongs, feel like they are getting stabbed in the heart to see a dog spinning and screaming in pain while the owner is holding down the button.

I don't necessarily believe that the OP in this thread is the type to do that... but what about other people? People who don't even post a single comment or ask any questions.

 

[DblTrblGolden2]

No collar at all allowed when running a field trial.
The only training equipment allowed at the line is a whistle.

No collar at all after Junior Hunt. You, your dog, and your whistle starting at Senior Hunt. You also have to honor the working dog.

 

[Megora]

I'm game, is Lily eligible? She is only 15 months old.
FYI, that is par for the course many days in field training and a good share of the time I let may dogs out the front door of my house.

Sweetie, you were talking about basic obedience.

And I assume this extends to your dogs, of course, Diane's dog, Kelly's dogs, and anyone else.

If comparing the use of ecollars to leash training alone, are you saying you no longer use an ecollar when taking your dog out off leash anywhere?

Because I can say my Jacks never needed a leash by age 2 which was due to regular obedience training + all the competition obedience stuff (the babies I have now grew up with full off leash privileges without any need for leash training).

That's the stark comparison that you were making in your comments - which I asked if you seriously knew what you were saying.

Hildae graciously provided you with an out with her comment, and that is fine. But just pointing out that the context of your comments was comparing basic obedience. And by that same token, you were saying the OP on this thread will not have to use an ecollar very long to achieve results.

Like - you were essentially saying that Diane's golden or Kelly's goldens no longer need an ecollar when out in the woods or countryside - because with an ecollar training, each has already been trained to the same degree that my dog had been just using leash training and regular obedience training.

 

[diane0905]

Just as an FYI, I’m not interested in the upcoming competition of whose dog is the best trained.

And that’s not me insulting Logan. I realize some trainers here are much better and more experienced.

I’ve not thought about when I won’t use an e-collar on Logan when we are in situations where I now use one. I think in an off leash hiking or up in the mountains around bears situation, I will continue to use one.

 

[DblTrblGolden2]

Just as an FYI, I’m not interested in the upcoming competition of whose dog is the best trained.

I am! I’d enjoy watching Jake and Lily. I’m thinking I could get some tips. Lol

 

[Hildae]

Again, I have many friends who do field work with their dogs. Golden people, more so people who own labs and FCR's. I know the dogs need to be off leash and are not allowed to wear corrective collars (including ecollars) during tests and trials, but that does not always come across during these completely ridiculous ecollar threads. Because I see some of the commentators as being careless and more interested in arguing for ecollars, that they do not do enough to criticize incorrect use of the ecollars, which we all know happens when regular randos buy the collars to train their dog without taking any classes or anything.

That is why I wanted to clarify that they aren't used all the time and aren't allowed in competition, for those who don't know.

But again, the thing that concerns me is that comment you made on the first page - which is one that I have seen. It's not people here who train their dogs and obviously love them who are cruel to their dogs. But they are overly aggressive in selling ecollars as the miracle tool.... to people who through ignorance may be cruel to their dogs.

I have seen at least 3 people get more worked up about the possibility of a dog getting a pop correction on a long line, then they are at the possibility of somebody putting a collar on the dog and carrying on without any training. This is how many of us who absolutely defend the ability of dog trainers to have a fully loaded toolbox, including ecollars and prongs, feel like they are getting stabbed in the heart to see a dog spinning and screaming in pain while the owner is holding down the button.

Those people represent no one other than jerks.

I don't necessarily believe that the OP in this thread is the type to do that... but what about other people? People who don't even post a single comment or ask any questions.

That is why these threads can potentially help, if they see people explaining how to use an e collar correctly, or find recommendations for resource on how to learn to use it.

For what it's worth, I own an e collar and it goes from 1 to 100 in levels. I can put it at 100 and shock myself and it's not what I'd call painful. I refused to put it on my dog until I was experienced with what the levels felt like on me first. I will not do anything that is harmful to my dog. Nothing is worth hurting them.