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I am considering getting Hopper a prong collar to help with her pulling and jumping during walks and training class. The place where we do our training does not sell these, so I am not sure what brand/size etc. I should buy. She pulls HARD during walks, not always but most of the time, and when she does it is extremely hard for me to handle her and I am afraid she is going to hurt herself. I have tried a harness and while that protects her neck, she actually is worse with the jumping and pulling when she has one on.

Any thoughts on trying this out for her, or what brands or size she might need? Or any other ideas to help me avoid me dislocating a shoulder walking her? She is around 60 pounds.
 

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If she pulls now, a prong collar will not stop her pulling. Harnesses help them pull.

What you need to do first is train her. A prong collar is a training aid, but just that, it will not do any good without the training. I trained a loose lead walk on a slip lead simply by stopping when he pulled and rewarding with forward movement when the lead was slack.

Once the dog understands the concept of yielding to pressure on a regular lead, you can apply a training tool if you need it, but you can't use the training tool as a "fix all" for pulling.

It needs to be consistent with all members of the household, but will yield long term results. I recommend "When Pigs Fly" by Jane Killion.

I apologize if the message comes off a little rough, but I have seen people think a prong collar is a quick fix when it just results in their dog pulling hard on a prong collar.
 

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If you have a long leash try wrapping the leash once around the waist leaving the snap on the collar. Pass the handle under the leash that is wrapped. This worked for Jonah when he was a young whipper snapper. I may not have explained it correctly but look up wrapping leash around dog that pulls. Ultimately, I ended up training with an e collar and positive reinforcement with the help of a professional and no painful zaps were ever used.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If she pulls now, a prong collar will not stop her pulling. Harnesses help them pull.

What you need to do first is train her. A prong collar is a training aid, but just that, it will not do any good without the training. I trained a loose lead walk on a slip lead simply by stopping when he pulled and rewarding with forward movement when the lead was slack.

Once the dog understands the concept of yielding to pressure on a regular lead, you can apply a training tool if you need it, but you can't use the training tool as a "fix all" for pulling.

It needs to be consistent with all members of the household, but will yield long term results. I recommend "When Pigs Fly" by Jane Killion.

I apologize if the message comes off a little rough, but I have seen people think a prong collar is a quick fix when it just results in their dog pulling hard on a prong collar.
The trainer of her Beyond Basics class had recommended that I try using one, but did not have one for me to try. She seemed to think that is deters them from pulling. I do not know enough about them so I wanted to check here. She has been through her Star Puppy and CGC classes and passed fine. She has started the crazy pulling and jumping at times the last month or so. She is fine at times but other times gets completely stubborn and will not listen, not even to a sit command. I stopped using the harness because I read that can promote pulling. When we are walking though, if she starts pulling, I plant my feet and do not move, but she will continue on until she is making horrible sounds while breathing and I am afraid she is hurting herself. So should I use the harness then to prevent damage?
 

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The trainer of her Beyond Basics class had recommended that I try using one, but did not have one for me to try. She seemed to think that is deters them from pulling. I do not know enough about them so I wanted to check here. She has been through her Star Puppy and CGC classes and passed fine. She has started the crazy pulling and jumping at times the last month or so. She is fine at times but other times gets completely stubborn and will not listen, not even to a sit command. I stopped using the harness because I read that can promote pulling. When we are walking though, if she starts pulling, I plant my feet and do not move, but she will continue on until she is making horrible sounds while breathing and I am afraid she is hurting herself. So should I use the harness then to prevent damage?
I would not use the harness, but if you're worried about her wind pipe you can.

As an alternative to stopping, you can just turn in the other direction, that way she doesn't have the opportunity to pull and put pressure while you're stopped. My only issue with that method is that it can be a LOT of turning around for a young excitable dog where everything is fun.

Prong collars on dogs who are trained to understand what yielding to pressure means are a great tool, but if the dog doesn't understand, they just pull on the prong. If you are interested, I strongly recommend a Herm Sprenger and find a trainer or a resource that teaches how to use it as a training tool as opposed to a crutch. The prong typically operates under two types: positive punishment and negative reinforcement. Much like a regular flat collar or slip collar, but amps up the response. As you know with your flat collar, even if she feels the pressure or a tug, it doesn't stop her from pulling. It will be similar with the prong if she doesn't understand what you're trying to communicate with her.

Since she knows her CGC and such, I would put a lot of effort into asking her to sit for greetings with everyone and if she wants to jump or pull, to walk her in the opposite direction.

On another note, there is another aversive tool that I find people enjoy a lot and is used quite often and well: the head collar. This can be a strong aversive and needs to be introduced to the dog slowly and positively, but can provide a lot more control since you have control of the head. A lot of dog's have a strong negative reaction to this if the the collar is introduced too quickly, but like other tools, it can be helpful :)
 

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I have a bad leg and Molly was starting to pull. She is 6.5 months old and she is on an 18 inch leash now when we walk. It gives her enough length to walk by my side and a little extra. She pulls a little at times if she gets excited but the leash itself gives me a lot of control and she doesnt get to lunge or wander wherever she wants.
 

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I would NOT put a prong collar on a pulling dog while walking around the block.

They learn to pull on the prong just like anything else and that's when they get neck injuries.

And head collars are cruel.
 

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I would NOT put a prong collar on a pulling dog while walking around the block.

They learn to pull on the prong just like anything else and that's when they get neck injuries.

And head collars are cruel.
Molly doesn't use a head collar as she wouldn't even tolerate it but I am wondering why you feel they are cruel. My daughter's dog does great with them.

My dog personally does best with the 18" leash so I go that route.
Just wondering.
 

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Molly doesn't use a head collar as she wouldn't even tolerate it but I am wondering why you feel they are cruel. My daughter's dog does great with them.

My dog personally does best with the 18" leash so I go that route.
Just wondering.
Head collars compress a lot of the blood vessels under the nose and can cause extreme discomfort to a dog that pulls. Many guide dog programs use them for better control, but there is no denying that they are a strong aversive.

Edit: here is a good article from a balanced trainer explaining some of the issues with head collars: The Problem With Head Halters - Suzanne Clothier/Carpe Canem Inc.
 

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Not a fan of prong collars (for all the reasons that are just a Google away).

You might want to Google "Fenzi circle method dog training" for another technique you can try. I have a course on this method in my "library" but haven't had a chance to watch/try it yet. That said, I've heard a lot of people rave about it working when nothing else would. There should be some free blogs/videos online for you to get a basic understanding. If you want to learn more, go to the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy website and look/watch for it the next time it's offered...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have a bad leg and Molly was starting to pull. She is 6.5 months old and she is on an 18 inch leash now when we walk. It gives her enough length to walk by my side and a little extra. She pulls a little at times if she gets excited but the leash itself gives me a lot of control and she doesnt get to lunge or wander wherever she wants.
I think I will try this suggestion and use a shorter leash before anything else.
 

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Find a good trainer who actually knows how to use a prong collar and you will be very pleased.
It's a training tool that needs to be used correctly. I can't tell you how many "leash pullers" I rehabilitated at the pet hotel, and how thrilled their owners were!
 

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A prong collar is a great tool if used properly. You need someone to teach you how to use it and fit it properly. They are actually not nearly as bad as many of the gentle leaders are. I recommend a Herm Sprenger collar. They have them on Chewy. Get the smaller links. I believe 3.0. You will probably have to purchase extra links. The reason for the smaller links is they provide a more even pressure and therefore work better than the large links. With a proper fitting collar and someone to help you use it correctly, it's like power steering.

Some very important points!
1. Never leave the collar on if you aren't actively using it.
2. It is absolutely not a substitute for training, merely a tool to help you teach the dog what you want from them.
3. Never put one on a puppy younger than maybe 9-12 months. I honestly only recommend them for the extremely large puppy with a very small or elderly owner or where I feel it's endangering the safety of the owner.
 

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You need to teach your dog basic obedience. A prong collar is one tool you may or may not need. I have never used one.
 

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You need to teach your dog basic obedience. A prong collar is one tool you may or may not need. I have never used one.
I was about to make a joke about a wiffle ball bat, but I probably shouldn't after the other day.
 

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Find a good trainer who actually knows how to use a prong collar and you will be very pleased.
It's a training tool that needs to be used correctly. I can't tell you how many "leash pullers" I rehabilitated at the pet hotel, and how thrilled their owners were!
I am a member of a facebook group for obedience people where it's a requirement to post the highest level title you've achieved whenever you comment. Sometimes I think we ought to have some version of that here as well. Hopster, this response is from Barb, she has an excellent resume for training her own dogs and also working with clients at the boarding kennel she has owned for many years. She has so much experience working with dogs from loving pet homes and has a wonderful, common sense approach here over many years in dealing with problems like this. She gives excellent advice for your situation, and I encourage you to feel comfortable listening to her.

You've been fair to the puppy and put in time with foundation obedience and since you told us this: "She has been through her Star Puppy and CGC classes and passed fine. She has started the crazy pulling and jumping at times the last month or so. She is fine at times but other times gets completely stubborn and will not listen, not even to a sit command ." We know that you have spent time training and you're currently in class with a trainer who knows you and your dog and has recommended using this tool. You're not someone being impatient with a 3 month old puppy.

Find someone who can show you the correct placement (this matters greatly) on the neck and the way to use it. The 60 pound dog pulling your shoulder out is a safety hazard to you and herself. I encourage you to do a little reading on them, here's an excellent article: Leerburg Dog Training | How to Fit a Prong Collar and if your trainer doesn't have experience with fitting them, get a referral for a private lesson with someone who trains schutzhund in your area and can get you set up properly.
 

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I was about to make a joke about a wiffle ball bat, but I probably shouldn't after the other day.
I was going to mention it but didn't want to cause tears right away in the morning.
Now that you brought it up.....
Some people use a length of small plastic pipe, maybe 1 inch and 3-4 feet long. Tape foam pipe insulation to the business end. You can then savagely beat your pup with it if you want but instead, I would recommend just tapping his front legs with it when he pulls. It won't hurt but he won't like it either. Pull and get tapped, don't pull and he is a good boy. If you are consistent with praise and correction your pup will make the right choice.

It is called training and or teaching. Some prefer to negotiate with a pup, it doesn't work.
 
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