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Oh yes we practice a lot and he’s so good at it usually but when people get in his face and want to pet him he just malfunctions lol. But we keep at it multiple times a day every day.
We took him to the pet store in a cart from home and a lady came up to us didn’t even ask and she was holding a lizard and getting in my puppies face even though she saw how excited he was she was ramping it up and her lizards tail was a few inches from my puppies head! We just had to walk away because it would have been our fault if our puppy nipped her lizard even though she was in our personal space. He was a good boy and didn’t though. Everyone sees a fuzzy cute golden retriever puppy and they have an excitement melt down!
People love to pet Golden Retrievers! When people do that, I hold up one finger, smile, and nod as if to say wait a minute, then I pull Emmitt to me and get his attention until he calms down. Then treat and greet. I also ask the person to say "sit" in a firm command and it usually works. My pup is 11 months. He did very well in Home Depot a few days ago except when one young lady was very excited to see him and caught me off guard. He pulled right to her and jumped. It's a process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
If yelping doesn't work
It does not work, on the contrary, it will fuel the fire.

I recommend this video. Let us know how it works out!
I have reservations about that video.

In the active correction part, he does explain that he says the "tshhh.." and touches the dog slightly (to redirect the brain), but what he does not explain, is the finger snapping at the end. On the live correction, you can clearly hear that after the sound and touch, he snaps his fingers. He does two corrections and snaps fingers at every correction. <- In my book, not disclosing everything, is misinformation, with little, if any credibility.

Now, i know that some trainers love to use dog clickers. And he seems to be of same type, but instead of using dog clicker, he snaps his fingers instead.
Our dog is not trained by clicker and i don't want to do that either, since to me, clicking at every step is very annoying to hear for my ears.

And in passive correction part, he also does explain what he is doing, but in live video, he does more. Namely, when he grabs the collar, he doesn't just grab the collar but part of the dog's neck skin as well.

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What we do struggle with, is the redirection part, since we do not have equal value item (dog toy or treat) with us 24/7.
 

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It does not work, on the contrary, it will fuel the fire.



I have reservations about that video.

In the active correction part, he does explain that he says the "tshhh.." and touches the dog slightly (to redirect the brain), but what he does not explain, is the finger snapping at the end. On the live correction, you can clearly hear that after the sound and touch, he snaps his fingers. He does two corrections and snaps fingers at every correction. <- In my book, not disclosing everything, is misinformation, with little, if any credibility.

Now, i know that some trainers love to use dog clickers. And he seems to be of same type, but instead of using dog clicker, he snaps his fingers instead.
Our dog is not trained by clicker and i don't want to do that either, since to me, clicking at every step is very annoying to hear for my ears.

And in passive correction part, he also does explain what he is doing, but in live video, he does more. Namely, when he grabs the collar, he doesn't just grab the collar but part of the dog's neck skin as well.

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What we do struggle with, is the redirection part, since we do not have equal value item (dog toy or treat) with us 24/7.
These are proven techniques. If you are looking for an argument,I’m going to pass.
 

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I think treadmills are 10 steps worse than leash walking for dogs and denotes an owner who isn't even trying.
They love the virtual reality goggles, though! Every dog should have a pair! It's like they're right there in the woods or in the lake or on the hunt! The treadmill helps with the reality aspect but I guess you could skip that part.
 

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Now, we are doing obedience classes with him (every Monday) and i let her to do all the classes with our doggo, while i'm sitting on the sidelines and only helping out when needed (e.g doggo pulls loose from her during obedience class, since there are other dogs as well, and i'll run after doggo).
^^^^^ You have a lot of training to do. I would be upset if I was in an obedience class and a 13 month old dog was breaking loose from it's owner. (Just being honest) I'm going to have control of my dog, and I expect you to have control of yours.

Sit is the first, most basic command that most of us teach. If my dog was starting the behaviors that your describing I would say "SIT". If he did not sit I would say "No (slight pause for him to pay attention) SIT". I use the word No as a correction. If I say No my dogs know that I mean it. I don't use it often, or carelessly. If I say sit, my dogs sit. I only say commands once, then wait for the proper response. If you have a firm sit command you can control most unwanted behaviors. You seem to be well versed in training, so I won't explain how to teach the sit command.

As far as him being good when receiving treats, and then bad as soon as the treats run out, slowly taper how often he is rewarded. Throw in a marker word, like "yes" or "good" so he knows a treat will be coming, but not right that minute. I start to taper treats for behaviors as soon as they are solid. The treats are just to get things started.

From what your describing, it sounds more like your dog is intimidated by you, not necessarily trained, and that is causing bigger issues for your "missus". Perhaps the two of you would benefit from a few private lessons in your home so the trainer could get a good idea of the dynamic?
 

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I get your point but any command is useless if not properly used.
"No" as I use it is a verbal correction not a command. Other times it is a cue used in teaching, "no-no". How you say a command or cue has far more meaning to a dog that what word is used.
I agree with you: "no" as a verbal correction or cue is very different from "no" as a command to elicit a specific action in response to bad behaviour. I maybe wasn't very clear in what I wrote.

The OP was using "no" as a command to stop his dog from biting him; my point was that it doesn't work that way. While "no" has meaning for humans, it's meaningless to the dog in terms of signalling what behaviour is wanted, because humans use it for all kinds of different situations and not for just one thing. If it's being used as a command, it needs to be linked to an actual command that the dog has been trained to understand, so it knows exactly what to do instead ("no, sit" or "no, drop it"). In my experience, it's easier, especially for inexperienced trainers, to use something else as a cue or marker of bad behaviour, or as a verbal correction, so that there's no danger of them thinking that what they're saying is an actual command that will elicit the response they want. "Ah-ah" doesn't have meaning for humans, so it doesn't generate expectations.

You're an experienced dog trainer, you know what you're doing and you use "no" for a particular purpose. The OP is a first-time dog owner and is using it as a general command when it doesn't work for that. I think that's what I was trying to say!
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 · (Edited)
These are proven techniques.
Cookie cutter technique that will work on all dogs, regardless the situation, at all times? I don't think so.

You, yourself said:

and both cases I stopped their biting in the early months by yelping when they bit me.
Now, yelping worked for you dogs, great! However, same doesn't work with our doggo.

Our doggo, at best, pauses for a second and then starts biting even harder. Now, i don't know what our doggo thought, but his actions spoke for itself. Essentially: "i'm happy, i play with my human, i bite him/her, he/she responded with high-pitch yelp, high-pitched means i did good, i'll bite him/her again but harder this time.". <- And that he did, when we yelped after we got bit, he did bite us harder and was even more excited.

Like i linked in one of my previous replies, we have tried several "proven techniques" in order to stop doggo from biting us. Here is the list from my old post, for easier read:
Here's what we've tried (and not just once, but several times to see if those techniques help):

* when pup nips you, say "No", to let pup know it's not okay
(We've tried it and when our pup is overly exited, this doesn't work.)

* when pup nips you, yelp loudly (essentially imitating dog) and turn away, to stop play
(I don't do yelps since i don't find that effective, instead, i think it "fuels the fire". My missus does the yelping and it rarely helps. It only pauses our pup for a second and he gets back to biting.)

* when pup nips you, say "OUCH" and/or turn around and walk away, to stop play
(I've tried the walking away method, doesn't work since our pup follows me and bites my feet even when i'm walking away.)

* when pup nips you, distract the pup by putting chew toy in place of your limb
(With this, i've had moderate success, but it doesn't work all the time and he prefers to nip my hands instead.)

* when pup nips you, don't react at all and relax your limb (to show the pup that it's boring to bite you)
(That i've tried and it's very hard/impossible since bites hurt, sometimes a lot. So far, i've tried it when he bites my feet, with moderate success.)

* when pup nips you, pinch pup's coat, to imitate another dog biting him/her back
(I got that suggestion from my breeder. I've tried it few times with no effect, other than pup turning towards the hand that does the pinching, to nip/bite it.)

* when pup nips you, distance yourself from the pup, either by going to another room and closing the door, or putting pup into pen/crate
(This has had the most success in calming our pup down. Since when there's no toys anymore around and he can't get to us, to nip us, he eventually calms down, so we can let him free. Albeit, this doesn't teach him not to nip/bite us.)

Only thing, that has helped us, thus far, is the last resort move, our breeder showed us.
* We now say "NO" in a stern, loud voice, up to 3 times. And if pup still bites us, we grab strongly from his cheek and won't let go until pup doesn't try to nip/bite us anymore. Getting yelps/cries out of the pup, when strongly holding his cheek is preferable, since that shows him clearly that this kind of behavior isn't welcome. Also, we let pup to lay on the ground and wiggle but as long as he tries to bite us, we won't let go. Once in a semi-calm state, and when i remove my hand, pup usually tries to nip our hands again. If his teeth touch our skin (hand or feet), we again grab his cheek strongly and hold it until he doesn't bite us anymore. This continues until pup learns that this form of "play" does not go with us at all.
Now, what vibe i get from some of you, is this: "here is a video or my personal experience with my own dogs, which proves that this specific technique will work on that specific dog on that specific setting - so, this technique must work on your dog as well.". :rolleyes:

and accepting sound advice about how to do it.
Yes, i have issues accepting advice that doesn't disclose all important parts. E.g like the video with finger snapping. He didn't talked about finger snapping, so, it wasn't required? However, in the live demonstration, he did snap his fingers. So, the finger snapping is required after all? If so, why? <- In this case, it isn't dog owner's fault that they are presented with conflicting info. Instead, it's the trainer's fault for teaching conflicting info.

^^^^^ You have a lot of training to do. I would be upset if I was in an obedience class and a 13 month old dog was breaking loose from it's owner. (Just being honest) I'm going to have control of my dog, and I expect you to have control of yours.
Between myself and my missus, we have different way on how we hold on to the leash. My way (and i'm quite sure i'll get a lot of scolding over it), is such, that whatever happens, doggo will not get loose from me. (Pic in this topic). My missus holds the leash differently, where when doggo suddenly starts to run and caught her off guard, can brake loose from her (has happened 4-5 times already).

Now, i know that doggo should never get into the mindset where he just takes off when he is leashed and in that regard, we have loads of training still to do.

I only say commands once, then wait for the proper response.
That i do know, but during training, would it be fine to repeat the command more than once? So that doggo can learn and remember better what this sound phrase is supposed to mean? Because when you start training a new command to doggo, doggo has no clue what the command means.

This reminds me the 1st trick i taught him. The "Sit" command. At 1st, i didn't include any verbal commands, instead, i taught him to sit via hand movement, with treat in hand. Once he understood my hand movement (this small, upward motion with closed hand) and sat down nicely, then i started to bring in the verbal command as well, to associate specific sound phrase with him sitting down. :)

Edit:

"Ah-ah" doesn't have meaning for humans, so it doesn't generate expectations.
That exact phrase, in Estonian (i live in Estonia), has a meaning and i often use it as well. "Ah-ah" means "i understood" or "i heard what you said", in far condensed way. It is not an actual dictionary word, but instead more of a slang.

Edit 2: I looked it up and "ah-ah" is actually part of Estonian dictionary, so it is an official word/phrase.
 

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That i do know, but during training, would it be fine to repeat the command more than once? So that doggo can learn and remember better what this sound phrase is supposed to mean? Because when you start training a new command to doggo, doggo has no clue what the command means.

This reminds me the 1st trick i taught him. The "Sit" command. At 1st, i didn't include any verbal commands, instead, i taught him to sit via hand movement, with treat in hand. Once he understood my hand movement (this small, upward motion with closed hand) and sat down nicely, then i started to bring in the verbal command as well, to associate specific sound phrase with him sitting down. :)
No, you shouldn't repeat commands more than once. The way you taught "sit" is fine (adding the verbal command afterwards). Another approach is to start by giving the verbal command "sit", lure the dog into the sitting position using a treat, and then reward with the treat. You then phase out the lure. If, after phasing out the lure, the dog hears "sit" and doesn't immediately sit, you shouldn't repeat the command. Instead you should place him gently in the sitting position, by luring or by manoeuvering him, and then praise him without giving him a food treat. Then do it again a couple of times with a lure, before trying again without the lure. Eventually you can phase out the treats altogether.

If you repeat the command, the dog will come to understand that the command for sitting down is "sit, sit" or "sit, sit, sit" or however many times you say it. He may stop responding if you say it only once. Dogs are literal creatures. You have to be careful.

I see this a lot in agility. For example, there are many handlers who have to yell "tunnel, tunnel, tunnel" in order to direct their dogs to a tunnel. The dogs think the command is a three-word command because that's the habit the handler has got them into. I also had a training partner who didn't train her dog to do the teeter downward contact correctly, and the dog came to understand that the correct way to do the obstacle was to run over it once without stopping on the contact, then circle back and do it properly - because that is what always happened in practice. It took years for her to un-train that one!
 

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That exact phrase, in Estonian (i live in Estonia), has a meaning and i often use it as well. "Ah-ah" means "i understood" or "i heard what you said", in far condensed way. It is not an actual dictionary word, but instead more of a slang.

Edit 2: I looked it up and "ah-ah" is actually part of Estonian dictionary, so it is an official word/phrase.
Well, if we're going to be pedantic, it's in most English and French dictionaries as well (I live in Canada), with several meanings similar meaning to the one you give above for Estonia. It's used mainly as an interjection in conversations, a kind of non-vocabulary verbal marker of attention, and can be written in several different ways.

Since this is the element of my post you felt deserved a response, I think I'll retire gracefully from the conversation. I wish you all the best in dealing with your dog's behaviour, and I hope you find a solution to it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
That seems to know it all.
If i were to know it all, as you imply me to be, this topic wouldn't exist.
But since it does, why the hostile attitude towards me? Because i don't accept the conflicting method as the one and only holy truth (speaking of "How To Stop Puppy Biting In Seconds" video, linked by michaeldwilson)?

Well, if we're going to be pedantic, it's in most English and French dictionaries as well (I live in Canada), with several meanings similar meaning to the one you give above for Estonia. It's used mainly as an interjection in conversations, a kind of non-vocabulary verbal marker of attention, and can be written in several different ways.
Since this phrase doesn't suit us, why not suggest to use any other non-meaning phrase? Rather than getting triggered over it, when i explained why we can't use this specific phrase.
Unless, it has to be this specific phrase. :rolleyes:

No, you shouldn't repeat commands more than once. The way you taught "sit" is fine (adding the verbal command afterwards). Another approach is to start by giving the verbal command "sit", lure the dog into the sitting position using a treat, and then reward with the treat. You then phase out the lure. If, after phasing out the lure, the dog hears "sit" and doesn't immediately sit, you shouldn't repeat the command. Instead you should place him gently in the sitting position, by luring or by manoeuvering him, and then praise him without giving him a food treat. Then do it again a couple of times with a lure, before trying again without the lure. Eventually you can phase out the treats altogether.

If you repeat the command, the dog will come to understand that the command for sitting down is "sit, sit" or "sit, sit, sit" or however many times you say it. He may stop responding if you say it only once. Dogs are literal creatures. You have to be careful.

I see this a lot in agility. For example, there are many handlers who have to yell "tunnel, tunnel, tunnel" in order to direct their dogs to a tunnel. The dogs think the command is a three-word command because that's the habit the handler has got them into. I also had a training partner who didn't train her dog to do the teeter downward contact correctly, and the dog came to understand that the correct way to do the obstacle was to run over it once without stopping on the contact, then circle back and do it properly - because that is what always happened in practice. It took years for her to un-train that one!
Thank you for the good explanation.

Now, with "sit" command, he does it without treats and in home and also outdoors. I've been able to get him to sit even when he is semi-excited. But we have to work on it more.

"Give" command is something we trained wrong, whereby saying "give", waiting, he didn't release, we said again "give" etc until after 3rd command he finally dropped it. Now, trying with only 1 "give" command, we can see that he is waiting for other two as well, but when those doesn't come, he still drops it, albeit after few moments. This needs retrain. Luckily, we haven't done much "give" command training with him yet and retrain should go easier.

Commands need to be one per task, but how about praise? Are praises (e.g "good boy", "you did well") also once per task or can we say them multiple, in quick succession?
 

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If i were to know it all, as you imply me to be, this topic wouldn't exist.
But since it does, why the hostile attitude towards me? Because i don't accept the conflicting method as the one and only holy truth (speaking of "How To Stop Puppy Biting In Seconds" video, linked by michaeldwilson)?
You’re right again.
Might have to consider the possibility that your doggo isn’t very bright.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Might have to consider the possibility that your doggo isn’t very bright.
My doggo being bright or dumb, has 0 to do with you being hostile towards me.

I thought this GR forums is the place where dog owners can come together, discuss about GRs, share and ask advice, in a calm and friendly manner.
And not a place, where advice by "experts" isn't a suggestion, but instead a demand. And when dog owner challenges the status quo, by asking additional information, rather than explaining it to dog owner, "experts" get mad and hostile towards dog owner, even resulting in Ad Hominem. Just like you demonstrated in this very topic. :rolleyes:
 

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People love to pet Golden Retrievers! When people do that, I hold up one finger, smile, and nod as if to say wait a minute, then I pull Emmitt to me and get his attention until he calms down. Then treat and greet. I also ask the person to say "sit" in a firm command and it usually works. My pup is 11 months. He did very well in Home Depot a few days ago except when one young lady was very excited to see him and caught me off guard. He pulled right to her and jumped. It's a process.
Gotta share... showed my younger dog this morning and later sat on the side watching the rest of the breed and chatting with other golden people and listening to them. <= Sat next to one of the top breeders in the breed and enjoyed hearing feedback from her on what I was seeing in the ring with other dogs. Shapes, etc. Was interesting to learn why some dogs bodies looked a certain way when moving, etc.

A golden person sat on the other side and made eye contact with my boy and he immediately sidled over and slipped his nose under arm while leaning in for a hug. Made me teary eyed to see this because his dad did the same exact thing with anyone who gave him the opening. While I do put time into training my dogs to compete in obedience, I do enjoy seeing them just be well behaved dogs. You can get there through practical training. Some of it though I think there's what the dogs were born with....
 

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Gotta share... showed my younger dog this morning and later sat on the side watching the rest of the breed and chatting with other golden people and listening to them. <= Sat next to one of the top breeders in the breed and enjoyed hearing feedback from her on what I was seeing in the ring with other dogs. Shapes, etc. Was interesting to learn why some dogs bodies looked a certain way when moving, etc.

A golden person sat on the other side and made eye contact with my boy and he immediately sidled over and slipped his nose under arm while leaning in for a hug. Made me teary eyed to see this because his dad did the same exact thing with anyone who gave him the opening. While I do put time into training my dogs to compete in obedience, I do enjoy seeing them just be well behaved dogs. You can get there through practical training. Some of it though I think there's what the dogs were born with....
Terrific story! It's great to see dogs reach that level of confidence and ease.
 

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With all due respect, it sounds like the breeder didn't do their homework when they chose you as the home for this puppy. From everything you've stated, all I can think is what a miserable life for this dog. Your dog is simply doing dog things. You are supposed to be the smarter species. You are creating an adversarial relationship through the outdated training techniques you are using. Using the pen as punishment will only make the dog not want to go in the pen. Saying "No" means nothing. No is not a behavior. Teach an alternative behavior. Grabbing them by the collar or shoulders as you described in one of your comments is teaching your dog you are not safe. You are essentially in the beginning stages of creating an aggressive dog (yes, even golden retrievers can bite) and if you keep this up, you will get exactly that. You need to completely ditch your outdated method of thinking. Dominance theory has been debunked. There is no alpha. Dogs are not pack animals. Your dog knows you're not its mother, so doing things a mother dog would do is of no value. Your dog does not need corrections. It needs to be taught a better way. Science has proven time and time again that dogs do not need force, pain, fear, intimidation or punishment to learn and you are doing all those things. Please seek out a positive reinforcement, force-free trainer. If you can't find one in your area, there are plenty GOOD ones online that will do virtual consults. E-collars are nothing but positive punishment or negative reinforcement and are inhumane. Dog training isn't intuitive and you definitely have a lot to learn - but more importantly, to unlearn.
 

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With all due respect, it sounds like the breeder didn't do their homework when they chose you as the home for this puppy. From everything you've stated, all I can think is what a miserable life for this dog. Your dog is simply doing dog things. You are supposed to be the smarter species. You are creating an adversarial relationship through the outdated training techniques you are using. Using the pen as punishment will only make the dog not want to go in the pen. Saying "No" means nothing. No is not a behavior. Teach an alternative behavior. Grabbing them by the collar or shoulders as you described in one of your comments is teaching your dog you are not safe. You are essentially in the beginning stages of creating an aggressive dog (yes, even golden retrievers can bite) and if you keep this up, you will get exactly that. You need to completely ditch your outdated method of thinking. Dominance theory has been debunked. There is no alpha. Dogs are not pack animals. Your dog knows you're not its mother, so doing things a mother dog would do is of no value. Your dog does not need corrections. It needs to be taught a better way. Science has proven time and time again that dogs do not need force, pain, fear, intimidation or punishment to learn and you are doing all those things. Please seek out a positive reinforcement, force-free trainer. If you can't find one in your area, there are plenty GOOD ones online that will do virtual consults. E-collars are nothing but positive punishment or negative reinforcement and are inhumane. Dog training isn't intuitive and you definitely have a lot to learn - but more importantly, to unlearn.
Well you started out OK but flamed out about half way through.
You definitely have a lot to learn - but more importantly, to unlearn.
 
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