Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
21 - 40 of 106 Posts

Registered
Joined
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
There is nothing controversial about it how I correct my dogs.
I do it in multiple ways depending on the dog, the situation, the level of and type of disobedience. I use voice, e collar, heeling stick........ In field training simply stopping a dog on the way to a retrieve and calling him in a short distance is taken as a correction by the dog.
Timing is very important and for most things indirect pressure is the best way to correct.
My previous reply wasn't intended as personal attack towards you and/or your training methods, instead, i meant the controversy about the different methods people suggest others, what to do and what not to do. Without factoring in other aspects, which you also described (dog, situation, level/type of offense, current education level etc).

You learn from other dogs but never compare dogs or compete with others in training.
I don't compare our doggo to others, nor compete against other dogs. Even in obedience class, there are tasks that our doggo excels while at other tasks, another doggo does better. But i still focus on my doggo.
 

Registered
Joined
194 Posts
I use very different training methods from SRW, and from the methods I used 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago, but I suspect that SRW, I and the other experienced trainers here have some training fundamentals in common. I (we?) anticipate rather than reacting. We stop unwanted behaviours before they happen, with commands, posture, movement, leash handling and/or distraction.

Develop a dog-trainer鈥檚 mindset and be continually aware of your dog鈥檚 demeanour and behaviour. Anticipate and intervene before your dog does something you don鈥檛 want. Ask for an alternative behaviour sequence, then reward profusely. Try to make it more fun, interesting and challenging for your dog to do what you want than to do what you don鈥檛 want.

Dogs don鈥檛 have consciences and don鈥檛 think in terms of good or bad. They repeat behaviours that have worked in the past. If I let my dog jump and nip, it would be likely to repeat that behaviour because it would get positive reinforcement from the Adrenalin rush, from my jump and squeal and even from the attention associated with any correction. Yes, even scruffing your dog and pulling it to its cage could have some positive aspects for your dog. Any attention is often better than no attention.

Your dog needs a lot more physical and mental exercise than it鈥檚 getting. I appreciate the difficulties, but the internet has a wealth of ideas for exercising dogs in small spaces鈥 Nosework, hide and seek games with toys and even kiddie鈥檚 ball pens with kibble dropped in. If possible, I would advise taking your dog to at least two classes a week, with you handling it in one class and your wife handling it in the other. Between classes, my young dogs get up to a dozen lessons a day, with each lesson between 2 and 5 minutes long. Also, remember that every interaction with your dog is an opportunity for learning (good or bad).
 

Registered
Joined
2,909 Posts
I and the other experienced trainers here have some training fundamentals in common. I (we?) anticipate rather than reacting. We stop unwanted behaviours before they happen, with commands, posture, movement, leash handling and/or distraction.
In some instances.
Sometimes the best way to teach is to entice disobedience in a controlled situation in order to correct it.
 

Kate
Joined
24,047 Posts
but I suspect that SRW, I and the other experienced trainers here have some training fundamentals in common. I (we?) anticipate rather than reacting. We stop unwanted behaviours before they happen, with commands, posture, movement, leash handling and/or distraction.
My take is that dogs live for such a short stretch of our lives. If they are "puppies from hell".... by the time they are 7 years old, you have forgotten all about that. You only remember the sweetness and freshness and wonder of raising a golden retriever puppy.... that is if you do no harm in the meantime.

If dog is mouthing and really going after the clothes, etc.... that's a time to pull out a rawhide bone or whatever for him to chew on. Redirect to something high value that the dog IS allowed to chew on.

If dog is jumping on you, there are mild corrections you can do which train them to keep their feet off. So even if they are jumping and leaping around, it's not a problem if it's all non contact. With puppies, they learn "off" fairly early. There's a light pinch on the toes you can do, etc.

If dog is pulling, you can correct that... but honestly, might want to consider why the dog is pulling very badly. Remember you have a sporting breed and these dogs if physically sound and athletic were built to run and maneuver through the marshes and bushes and such. <= People who live in the city and don't have access to a yard.... it's tough, but these are reasons why dog parks exist. You just have to find a way to get over there and use the facilities at times when there's not a lot of other people around or dangerous dogs. It is extra hardship trying to make it all work out, but these are things which you need to consider prior to bringing a sporting breed home to an apartment, etc. You find ways to make do. Leash walks are not enough.
 

Registered
Joined
191 Posts
I'm as positive as a trainer can be . I teach commands and good behavior. Praise obedience and correct disobedience.

Time outs don't work, dogs don't think that way.
Yes, dogs aren't human. Timeouts in a kennel will not make sense to a dog.

What is the specific behavior that you wish to change? It will first help to lay some groundwork like the "look at me," "sit," and "stay" commands. If the dog gets too excited about another dog, say, redirecting and having the dog focus on you may be all you need to stop the unwanted behavior.
 

Super Moderator
Joined
2,610 Posts
Remember you have a sporting breed and these dogs if physically sound and athletic were built to run and maneuver through the marshes and bushes and such. <= People who live in the city and don't have access to a yard.... it's tough, but these are reasons why dog parks exist. You just have to find a way to get over there and use the facilities at times when there's not a lot of other people around or dangerous dogs. It is extra hardship trying to make it all work out, but these are things which you need to consider prior to bringing a sporting breed home to an apartment, etc. You find ways to make do. Leash walks are not enough.
I recommend a virtual reality headset made for dogs and a doggy treadmill. The dog thinks it's running out in the marsh and brush but it's really just on the treadmill.
 

Super Moderator
Joined
477 Posts
Quick anecdote about timeouts. I know that some people may agree how timeouts are effective, but I think it's more about the duration of timeout that will increase your success. I'm not sure what bad behavior you're trying to address, but for us, the only reason our dog gets put into timeout is when he's too energetic when guests come over (rarely with new guests, usually with his favorite people).

We give him one or two warnings to knock it off, but he's a little under 2, so his brain is still wanting to short circuit when the excitement hits. After those verbal warnings, and he continues, I immediately grab him and put him in my office, which is right off of our sitting room. I only leave him in there for 2-3 minutes (exercise in exclusion from "the pack" for naughty behavior). When I go back into the room, I usually find him sitting calmly to show me that he's ready to rejoin the party. When I release him, he's 1000% better and whatever energy he exhibited at the top goes away. I think any longer than 2-3 minutes, he starts to get crazy in solitary confinement, and any longer, any dog will forget why he's in timeout in the first place.

Maybe because we use timeouts sparingly and for only one specific reason, our dog knows the expectation of him when he's done his time. Every dog is different. I think by a year, you and your dog have developed your own communication techniques, and you'll know best how to correct your dog.
 

Registered
Joined
2,229 Posts
Just saying no without doing something to stop it isn't going to work Say no while stopping the behavior. And don't say it 3 times. Dogs are incredible counters. He will learn that you don't really mean it the first 2 times. They have to do it the first time. There is nothing wrong with putting them in the crate to calm down. Only do about 10-15 minutes though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SRW

Premium Member
Joined
2,049 Posts
A few suggestions below, to add to what others have said.

(...) Which of the two would be the proper course of action (indoors, at home), and why;

1. If doggo behaves badly (usually from over excitement), saying stern "No" up to 3 times and if he doesn't still listen, grabbing from his collar and leading him to his pen, saying the keyword to get him into the pen (e.g "Pen" or "Into pen") and closing the door afterwards. So that he could cool off and learn that the bad behavior isn't acceptable. (Doggo would remain in pen for 15-30 mins or so.) And this every time he does unacceptable things, until doggo learns not do to unacceptable things. Or stops doing it after saying stern "No".

2. 1st time when doggo behaves badly (usually from over excitement), saying stern "No" up to 3 times and if he doesn't still listen, grabbing from his collar and leading him to his pen, saying the keyword to get him into the pen (e.g "Pen" or "Into pen") and closing the door afterwards. For another 15-30 mins timeout. But 2nd time around, rather than leading doggo to his pen, threatening doggo instead with the keyword (e.g "Pen" or "Into pen"). When doggo stops bad behavior due to the threat, he won't be put into the pen at all. And this for all following instances. Rather than actually putting doggo into pen, doggo is threatened to stop bad behavior. (...)
IMHO, neither. "No" is just about the most useless command ever devised for dog training. As Palouse said (post #13 above), if you don't pair it with an instruction telling the dog what you want him to do instead, all you're doing is creating confusion. Humans tell their dogs "no" all the time: they use a simple "no" command to mean "no, don't jump up", "no, don't bite", "no, don't get on the couch", "no, don't steal from the counter", "no, don't chew that" ... etc. How is the dog supposed to decipher what it means and know what you actually want them to do? All the dog gets from a simple "no" command is that the human is upset about something. It creates uncertainty and IMHO, in your situation, it might actually be increasing your dog's over-excitement because he just doesn't know what to do. I don't use "no", I use "ah-ah" to signal that I don't like what my dog is doing, followed immediately by the command for what I want him to do instead: "ah-ah, sit" if he's jumping up, or "ah-ah, get down" if he's somewhere I don't want him to be, for example. My suggestion would be to decide on the behaviour you want your dog to do whenever he starts jumping or nipping - just ONE behaviour, the same one you're going to ask for each time he does it. It might be "sit", it might be "lie down", it might be anything else you want. And then you train and proof that behaviour when he's behaving well, in your daily training sessions, and you practise it in different situations until you get 100% compliance wherever you are and whatever he's doing. And then, when he starts biting or nipping, you tell him "ah-ah" (not "no") to signal that you don't like what he's doing, followed immediately by the command for what you want him to do instead. If he doesn't immediately comply, you enforce compliance gently, and then praise him.

In our "pack", but in our doggo's mind: i'm Alpha, then comes doggo and my missus is 3rd. Now, we are doing obedience classes with him (every Monday) and i let her to do all the classes with our doggo, while i'm sitting on the sidelines and only helping out when needed (e.g doggo pulls loose from her during obedience class, since there are other dogs as well, and i'll run after doggo).
As others have said, the "alpha" theory has long been debunked, even by the person who originally proposed it. Dogs simply don't function like that. For example, my dog eats before me, he goes through doorways before me, he sleeps on my bed, etc., etc., but nobody who sees us would ever doubt which one of us is calling the shots, and he'll always choose to follow me regardless of what he's doing. We humans ask dogs to live in a world that's completely alien to them. Much of a dog's natural behaviour - behaviour that is perfectly fine in the dog world - is completely unacceptable in the human world. Yelling, grabbing the dog by the scruff, having different rules for different situations or different people, or simply not being clear about what you want, will simply make your dog insecure and, if you have an assertive or confident dog (as you seem to have, per his Volhard scores), more inclined to become over-excited in situations where he's uncertain. The dog needs to learn that the human is trustworthy and can be relied on to indicate clearly what the dog can and cannot do in different situations. That's all. Dog behaviour is a question of training, not social ranking.

(...) Just today, when outside walk was about to finish, i had an "incident" with him.
Namely, when we were closing in to our front door, during normal walk (slack in leash), he suddenly started to grab the leash and tried to play tug-of-war with me. I completely ignored him and walked forwards, close to our front door. Doggo did follow me with slacked leash while still trying to get good grip on the leash with his teeth. Once he realized that he can't get good grip on the leash, he started to jump up on me, from behind, mid walk. I ignored him again and walked forwards. Then, he started to jump and bite me from the behind. Once he bit me from my behind (arse), that was when i lost it. Since i don't care who's dog it is, i will not let myself be mauled by a dog. So, i turned around, grabbed from the shoulder area. Then, doggo realized that what he did, was not fine and laid down to the ground. With a stern voice, i told him "No" and "It was painful."
This stopped the whatever "play" he was thinking about doing with me. I released my hand, stood up and he sat up. After which we continued on as normal, like nothing happened. He behaved well, sitting at front door, waiting until i opened the door, then came in when i tasked him. Etc, normal good behavior.

(...) Redirect doesn't work, since we've tried it countless of times. When our doggo is in that "state", he does not listen commands. At best, 5% of commands actually register in his brain. <- This is so with all dogs IMO. E.g you can not train a dog, when dog is in the overly excited state. With this, only way forward is to calm the brain down, so that ears "open" again.
Ignoring bad behaviour won't make it go away. If your dog jumps on you, you have to deal with it right away. By walking away, you're turning the jumping into a chasing game, which escalates it and triggers the biting. In this particular situation it's your fault that you were bitten because you didn't deal with the leash biting and jumping up when they occurred. You allowed them to happen without correcting them, and then you got angry at the dog, and grabbed him, so he reacted fearfully because he didn't know what you wanted him to do because you hadn't told him. Instead of indicating to him that the leash grabbing and jumping were unacceptable to you, you ignored them. So in his mind, the grabbing came out of the blue. All it did was to make him trust you less. It did not and will not make him stop jumping and nipping - why would it, when he doesn't know why you did it?

Part of your problem may well be that his basic commands haven't been trained properly. By "properly", I mean to a level where he complies all the time regardless of the situation or circumstances. You are correct in stating that you can't train a dog when the dog is in an overly excited state. But you should be training your dog to a level where he will obey simple commands even if he's overly excited. If this isn't the case, he isn't properly trained. I can call my dog back to me even if he's chasing a squirrel, for example.

In the above situation, if you had trained a rock-solid "drop it" command, you could have dealt with him as soon as he grabbed the leash simply by saying "ah-ah, drop it". Problem solved. If you didn't have a "drop it" command, you could have dealt with his behaviour at the second stage, when he started jumping up, simply by saying "ah-ah, sit". By ignoring these first two stages, you enabled the third stage, the biting. You don't train the "drop it" or "sit" commands when he's behaving badly; you train them when he's behaving well, in your everyday training sessions, and you practise them in different situations (tug of war games with a toy, asking him to "sit" in unexpected circumstances - e.g. at random during a walk, or while you're cooking dinner, etc.). Redirect isn't working for you because his basic training is deficient. Fix that, and the jumping/nipping will fix itself because your dog will have learned to trust you to tell him what to do instead of punishing him for not knowing what to do.

I do understand that some dogs are harder to train than others, but once you have a system in place, it will be a lot easier. I wish you the best of luck and hope you find a way to fix this.
 

Registered
Joined
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
If dog is mouthing and really going after the clothes, etc.... that's a time to pull out a rawhide bone or whatever for him to chew on. Redirect to something high value that the dog IS allowed to chew on.
He doesn't go after the clothes at full force, instead, there are 5, distinct instances with clothes.
1. My missus'es slippers. For whatever reason, our doggo likes to bite into her slippers (in doing that, sometimes also biting her leg) and/or steal the slipper for himself.
2. When my missus walks from kitchen to home office, our doggo, for whatever reason, likes to grab bottom part of her skirt and walk with her, part of the skirt in his mouth.
3. When my missus is putting socks on, doggo likes to grab the sock from her foot.
4. When my missus is changing clothes, doggo likes to grab her clothes and play tug-of-war with clothing items.
5. Outside on the walks, when wearing long sleeved jumpers (or anything else long sleeved), and when in overly-excited state, besides jumping up on us and biting hands, doggo may grab from the end of the sleeve and start pulling it backwards (tug-of-war i guess?)

Now, 1st and 2nd thing doesn't happen with me, since i don't wear slippers or skirts. 馃槄 3rd thing doesn't happen with me either. Instead, when i'm putting my socks on, doggo just comes and sniffs my socks, without ever grabbing them. 4th thing also doesn't happen with me. When i change clothes, doggo does come and look what is going on and if he sees that i put on my outside clothes, he gets excited, since he knows that we are going out. And 5th does happen with me as well. Currently, it's summer time and we don't wear long sleeved clothes, so, this hasn't happened since Spring.

If dog is jumping on you, there are mild corrections you can do which train them to keep their feet off. So even if they are jumping and leaping around, it's not a problem if it's all non contact. With puppies, they learn "off" fairly early. There's a light pinch on the toes you can do, etc.
We are also training him not to jump up on people. With strangers, he rarely does it. With us, more often.
When he jumps up, we say "Off" and when he gets on all fours again, then we praise him for getting back down. <- As i understood, dogs are 1 task creatures, meaning that when i praise him for getting off from me, he registers the praise for getting back on the ground, and not for the task prior to that (jumping up on me).

If dog is pulling, you can correct that... but honestly, might want to consider why the dog is pulling very badly.
Our doggo has 2 instances when he pulls like crazy. Both of these are well known to us and we can avoid the situations;
1. When doggo smells female dog in heat.
2. When we both go out on the walks, but leash is in missus'es hands and i won't be next to them. <- This usually happens when we need to drive somewhere.

Since our apartment complex has garages behind our flat, and i keep my car in the garage (and not in front of the flat), i go behind the flat to get the car and my missus walks the doggo (pehhaps doggo needs to go potty). But instead of going for the normal (short) walk route, doggo pulls like crazy, to get to me.

--

Now, our doggo behaves completely differently when one of us leaves home and another remains home.

When my missus goes out and i stay home with our doggo, our doggo just watches missus going out of the door and after she has left, doesn't make a sound. Rarely a bark or two.
Now, when i leave home and missus stays home with our doggo, then i can't even leave the home, without doggo wanting to come with me. And if i happen to leave him in the home, he will bark, whine and pace around the home for quite a while.
Why it is so, i'm not entirely sure. I think my doggo has far more affection with me than with my missus.

But when either of the two of us returns home, doggo is equally happy to see either of us.

Timeouts in a kennel will not make sense to a dog.
Maybe not for your dog, but for our doggo, it does.

For example: we have hardwood floor and since we got a puppy, we had to buy carpets to cover it, so that our pup doesn't slide on it when walking. Now, first few carpets we bought, were rug types (quite thick) and our doggo started to chew on it, pulling out the big, fat and long strings carpet was made of. So, i instead looked into doormat style carpet, which has rubber underside (won't slide at all), only 0.5 cm thick and made with small woven threads, without any loose or sticking out ends (so that doggo can't easily chew on it). Oh, and for easy cleaning as well.
Now, our doggo soon figured out on how to chew on that as well (lifting corner of the carpet with paw, to chew on the corner). But i was around and when i caught him doing the act, i took hold of his collar and lead him to pen, for ~15mins. I had to do this twice, until our doggo learned that chewing carpets is not okay. And ever since, he has not chewed on any carpet we have (in total, we have 9 carpets in our apartment).

Now, putting a dog to a pen, means for the dog that: "if i do X thing, my human puts me into my pen, without any toys and human interaction. This is boring and bad, i remember not to do X thing again." <- This is the very foundation how dogs learn. Good behavior is rewarded by positive things (toy, praise, treat etc), while bad behavior is rewarded by negative things (take toy away, no human interaction, play stops etc).

What is the specific behavior that you wish to change?
Biting us (namely hands). Biting happens only when he is over-excited and doesn't think that it isn't okay.
Jumping up on us and pulling clothes are things as well he does, but compared to biting, other two would be minor.

In that sense, never getting into over-excited state would be ideal, but i know that this will never happen. Over-excited is a state of emotion and you can't train emotions out of a dog. Though, perhaps, better would be learning on how to calm dog down, once he is in the over-excited state. Speaking of it, watched this (long) vid yesterday:


doggy treadmill
I've seen few vids of it and while it's fun to watch, especially when dog itself loves it, i don't think it would be suited for our doggo. Moreover, we don't have enough free space where to put it and i haven't seen any of such things on sale, in this part of the world. Those few vids i've seen about doggy treadmill, they all seem to be DIY projects.

For example, retractable leashes are very popular, even in this part of the world. I, in the other hand, don't think that i should be using retractable leash, since that takes effort away from human (i view retractable leash users as lazy people). Instead, i'm using regular leash (~3m long) and go everywhere with my doggo. Staying close to doggo also helps me to scan the ground with eyes, and spot any item that my doggo might want to eat.

There is nothing wrong with putting them in the crate to calm down. Only do about 10-15 minutes though.
That's what we've been doing. And this very topic started with the two different methods in doing that.

Humans tell their dogs "no" all the time: they use a simple "no" command to mean "no, don't jump up", "no, don't bite", "no, don't get on the couch", "no, don't steal from the counter", "no, don't chew that" ... etc.
We don't add the explanatory phrases at the end of our "No". We only say "No", to stop the dog doing whatever he is doing, followed by a small pause, and then comes next command. <- I find this to be very simple and easy to understood for the dog as well.

If your dog jumps on you, you have to deal with it right away. By walking away, you're turning the jumping into a chasing game, which escalates it and triggers the biting.
In regards of this, there is conflicting info on the net, on what to do in those situations.
Leash grabbing and pulling should mean that doggo wants my attention and wants to play tug-of-war with the leash with me. Now, if i don't give him any attention, he should realize that leash grabbing doesn't work and he should (eventually) realize not to do it in the first place? No?

By "properly", I mean to a level where he complies all the time regardless of the situation or circumstances.
Yeah, based on your description, our doggo is far from properly trained.

If you didn't have a "drop it" command, you could have dealt with his behaviour at the second stage, when he started jumping up, simply by saying "ah-ah, sit".
We do have "drop it" command for him, but that training is in very early stages as of right now. We train it with his toys, when we ask him to give his toy to us. Quite often we need to repeat the command several times, before he lets whatever is in his mouth, go. Other times, when saying the command only once, it take quite a long while before doggo releases the item, if ever. Now, when he does release the item, we praise him for that, always.

you train them when he's behaving well, in your everyday training sessions, and you practise them in different situations (tug of war games with a toy, asking him to "sit" in unexpected circumstances
We are mixing the training up, by doing it in different situations. To name the few:
  • I sometimes, during the walks, stop out of the blue and also ask our doggo to stop. He does that well, usually sitting down (sit is his default/preferred position). And after ~10 seconds, i continue on, by also commanding him to move forwards with "Come" command.
  • During tug-of-war play with his toy, at random, i say "Give", to train the release item command. Once he gives toy/item away, i praise him.
  • When retrieving toy back to me, i praise him for retrieval and do one of the three at random: 1. Another throw and retrieve, 2. small session of tug-of-war, 3. i rub him from the sweet spots.

--

All-in-all, i think we've done a lot of things properly, especially for 1st time dog owners. Though, some issues are still present.
 

Registered
Joined
2,909 Posts
"No" is just about the most useless command ever devised for dog training.
I get your point but any command is useless if not properly used.
"No" as I use it is a verbal correction not a command. Other times it is a cue used in teaching, "no-no". How you say a command or cue has far more meaning to a dog that what word is used.


It sounds like the main issue here is an energetic dog that doesn't get enough physical or mental exercise.
 

Registered
Joined
60 Posts
A few suggestions below, to add to what others have said.



IMHO, neither. "No" is just about the most useless command ever devised for dog training. As Palouse said (post #13 above), if you don't pair it with an instruction telling the dog what you want him to do instead, all you're doing is creating confusion. Humans tell their dogs "no" all the time: they use a simple "no" command to mean "no, don't jump up", "no, don't bite", "no, don't get on the couch", "no, don't steal from the counter", "no, don't chew that" ... etc. How is the dog supposed to decipher what it means and know what you actually want them to do? All the dog gets from a simple "no" command is that the human is upset about something. It creates uncertainty and IMHO, in your situation, it might actually be increasing your dog's over-excitement because he just doesn't know what to do. I don't use "no", I use "ah-ah" to signal that I don't like what my dog is doing, followed immediately by the command for what I want him to do instead: "ah-ah, sit" if he's jumping up, or "ah-ah, get down" if he's somewhere I don't want him to be, for example. My suggestion would be to decide on the behaviour you want your dog to do whenever he starts jumping or nipping - just ONE behaviour, the same one you're going to ask for each time he does it. It might be "sit", it might be "lie down", it might be anything else you want. And then you train and proof that behaviour when he's behaving well, in your daily training sessions, and you practise it in different situations until you get 100% compliance wherever you are and whatever he's doing. And then, when he starts biting or nipping, you tell him "ah-ah" (not "no") to signal that you don't like what he's doing, followed immediately by the command for what you want him to do instead. If he doesn't immediately comply, you enforce compliance gently, and then praise him.



As others have said, the "alpha" theory has long been debunked, even by the person who originally proposed it. Dogs simply don't function like that. For example, my dog eats before me, he goes through doorways before me, he sleeps on my bed, etc., etc., but nobody who sees us would ever doubt which one of us is calling the shots, and he'll always choose to follow me regardless of what he's doing. We humans ask dogs to live in a world that's completely alien to them. Much of a dog's natural behaviour - behaviour that is perfectly fine in the dog world - is completely unacceptable in the human world. Yelling, grabbing the dog by the scruff, having different rules for different situations or different people, or simply not being clear about what you want, will simply make your dog insecure and, if you have an assertive or confident dog (as you seem to have, per his Volhard scores), more inclined to become over-excited in situations where he's uncertain. The dog needs to learn that the human is trustworthy and can be relied on to indicate clearly what the dog can and cannot do in different situations. That's all. Dog behaviour is a question of training, not social ranking.



Ignoring bad behaviour won't make it go away. If your dog jumps on you, you have to deal with it right away. By walking away, you're turning the jumping into a chasing game, which escalates it and triggers the biting. In this particular situation it's your fault that you were bitten because you didn't deal with the leash biting and jumping up when they occurred. You allowed them to happen without correcting them, and then you got angry at the dog, and grabbed him, so he reacted fearfully because he didn't know what you wanted him to do because you hadn't told him. Instead of indicating to him that the leash grabbing and jumping were unacceptable to you, you ignored them. So in his mind, the grabbing came out of the blue. All it did was to make him trust you less. It did not and will not make him stop jumping and nipping - why would it, when he doesn't know why you did it?

Part of your problem may well be that his basic commands haven't been trained properly. By "properly", I mean to a level where he complies all the time regardless of the situation or circumstances. You are correct in stating that you can't train a dog when the dog is in an overly excited state. But you should be training your dog to a level where he will obey simple commands even if he's overly excited. If this isn't the case, he isn't properly trained. I can call my dog back to me even if he's chasing a squirrel, for example.

In the above situation, if you had trained a rock-solid "drop it" command, you could have dealt with him as soon as he grabbed the leash simply by saying "ah-ah, drop it". Problem solved. If you didn't have a "drop it" command, you could have dealt with his behaviour at the second stage, when he started jumping up, simply by saying "ah-ah, sit". By ignoring these first two stages, you enabled the third stage, the biting. You don't train the "drop it" or "sit" commands when he's behaving badly; you train them when he's behaving well, in your everyday training sessions, and you practise them in different situations (tug of war games with a toy, asking him to "sit" in unexpected circumstances - e.g. at random during a walk, or while you're cooking dinner, etc.). Redirect isn't working for you because his basic training is deficient. Fix that, and the jumping/nipping will fix itself because your dog will have learned to trust you to tell him what to do instead of punishing him for not knowing what to do.

I do understand that some dogs are harder to train than others, but once you have a system in place, it will be a lot easier. I wish you the best of luck and hope you find a way to fix this.
Sorry to hijack but this was incredibly helpful. Thank you for taking the time to write it. I think a lot of people are having similar issues as the op and it will be read often.
My pup is like op pup he gets so excited around new people he won鈥檛 listen to any commands he knows so well when we鈥檙e training. He also bites the leash when it鈥檚 time to walk and I know it鈥檚 bad but I think it鈥檚 kinda cute so I haven鈥檛 tried to stop it yet. I鈥檓 noticing big changes in jumping and barking while being fed just by using some positive reinforcement techniques. We鈥檙e now working on jumping on the counter again with positive reinforcement and repetition and he is getting a lot better. They learn fast.
From what I鈥檓 learning it takes a lot of repetition and patience to get them to learn but they do learn!
Sorry again to hijack but your comment was so helpful and good to read thank you
 

Registered
Joined
202 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Sorry again to hijack but your comment was so helpful and good to read thank you
My topic and advice shared here is for every dog owner, so, i don't view your contribution as a hijack. 馃槈 On the contrary, your case shows that the issue we have with our doggo, is something many (1st time) dog owners struggle with.

Our doggo also gets excited when we have visitors. I hold him back, until visitors can take their shoes off. This small amount of time is usually enough for doggo to calm down enough not to jump on them out of huge excitement.

Also, what i did previously, but have dialed back, was when i 1st met our doggo in the morning, i didn't make it out as a greatest thing ever. Instead, i ignored him for the first 5mins or so. This was to reduce the excitement of his, of meeting people (our guests or even ourselves). Now, every morning, i greet him and say "Who we have here?", while giving him few pats. Of course, doggo is happy to see me again but he won't go crazy and jumpy.
 

Registered
Joined
191 Posts
Biting us (namely hands). Biting happens only when he is over-excited and doesn't think that it isn't okay.
Jumping up on us and pulling clothes are things as well he does, but compared to biting, other two would be minor.

In that sense, never getting into over-excited state would be ideal, but i know that this will never happen. Over-excited is a state of emotion and you can't train emotions out of a dog. Though, perhaps, better would be learning on how to calm dog down, once he is in the over-excited state. Speaking of it, watched this (long) vid yesterday:

think we've done a lot of things properly, especially for 1st time dog owners. Though, some issues are still present.
Yep, this is a behavior that needs to be addressed. You don't want a dog biting you, or worse, a child. I've had two Goldens and both cases I stopped their biting in the early months by yelping when they bit me. I mimic the behavior they learn when they play with other puppies and learn about boundaries. Although it worked for me, I know it does not always work for everyone.

If yelping doesn't work, you will need to correct your dog's behavior. It needs to be clear and well-timed. You should not do anything that hurts your dog or overly frightens your dog. You want your dog to respect you, not fear you.

I recommend this video. Let us know how it works out!

 

Registered
Joined
191 Posts
Our doggo also gets excited when we have visitors. I hold him back, until visitors can take their shoes off. This small amount of time is usually enough for doggo to calm down enough not to jump on them out of huge excitement.
You may be already doing this, but don't just hold him back. Call his name, pull him to you, have him focus on you with a sit or look at me command until he calms down (better than shutting him in the crate). If he complies, treat. If he doesn't comply, pull him further back and try again. Make sure you get some kind of success.
 

Registered
Joined
60 Posts
Don't say: He won't listen to commands. Instead say: He will listen to commands if I keep at it and practice a lot!
Oh yes we practice a lot and he鈥檚 so good at it usually but when people get in his face and want to pet him he just malfunctions lol. But we keep at it multiple times a day every day.
We took him to the pet store in a cart from home and a lady came up to us didn鈥檛 even ask and she was holding a lizard and getting in my puppies face even though she saw how excited he was she was ramping it up and her lizards tail was a few inches from my puppies head! We just had to walk away because it would have been our fault if our puppy nipped her lizard even though she was in our personal space. He was a good boy and didn鈥檛 though. Everyone sees a fuzzy cute golden retriever puppy and they have an excitement melt down!
 
21 - 40 of 106 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top