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Conformation Weaknesses: what are her flaws!?

6K views 45 replies 11 participants last post by  Maddie_goldens 
#1 ·
Hi there! This is my up and coming female and I was hoping to get some experienced show people point out her flaws(other than her pale color of course). This is all just for fun, and thought it would be interesting to see what others think. In my opinion, her body is longer than the standard calls for but I’m still learning as others continue to do as well:) She is 21.5 inches at the whithers and is a solid 58 pounds after her checkup at the vet if this helps at all.
Dog Carnivore Grass Fawn Companion dog
Dog Plant Dog breed Carnivore Grass
 
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#9 ·
Pretty nice looking dog! I would look into doing a CCA with her. No training required. Best of luck.
 
#10 ·
She’s a lovely dog! I’m definitely not an expert but agree that she looks a little long In body for the ideal breed standard, but hopefully someone with WAY more experience than I have will chime in. 😉

I think it would be fun to at least see if she can get a CCA (certificate of conformation assessment) but keep in mind there’s all sorts of activities you or your husband can participate in (most of which are far easier to succeed/title in than conformation). Agility, Obedience, Rally, field work, nose work, dock diving, therapy work, FASTCat, are all options to consider.
 
#11 ·
The funny thing is that she is LOVES to be shown when we do little “at home” rings for fun. We have tried agility and nose work and dock diving but she hated it with all of her sweet existence😂 haven’t looked into the others. I’m not sure how to go about doing CCA… we are in Alaska and haven’t found anything about one happening… then again I’m a novice.
 
#12 ·
You would need to check with the Midnight Sun Golden Retriever Club I think. I know Alaska is huge, but they are the only club I know of off the top of my head. There are usually 1 or 2 big shows in Alaska every year in the summer where a CCA might possibly be held in conjunction with the show.
 
#14 · (Edited)
So...I'm probably always the first to refuse to comment on a bad stack or bad photo/angle. And I'll say that's why I wouldn't comment on the face/expression/head photo - because it really doesn't show what we'd normally want to see with a head shot. The lighting and angle is funky. I guess as example, it appears she has good pigment (nose and eye rims), but her mouth does not appear to be as tight as preferred with this breed. And the angle of her head in the pic doesn't allow for a fair consideration of her muzze/head/headpiece.

Stacked picture is not as bad as some that I've seen. She definitely is long in body. And then there is something going on in her croup/tailset. It's either too straight a croup or a high tailset. Head/front appear nice in the first pic.

Now if she's 3 years old and doesn't like jumping in agility or dock jumping... get her hips and elbows checked/OFA cleared before you do anything. Assuming they have not yet been checked?

Try conformation and see if you enjoy it. ;) Hate to burst anyone's bubbles, but while I've been showing for 8 years.... I've seen a lot of people starting up.... and disappearing after 1-5 shows.

Conformation looks like an easy sport outside the ring or playing around at home. It does get tough when you enter the ring for a variety of reasons. And then you get people quitting because... their dog doesn't enjoy the sport.

If you are planning to breed the dog - my opinion is you should be able to take your dog into the show ring and show her. Among else, being able to show your dog shows that you have a dog who meets breed standard. It also teaches people what should be there - that's assuming they haven't gone all sour grapes while thinking their dogs have it and "the ref is blind". :)

As well - I gotta add that conformation shows are such that typically you have to have a nice dog - temperament wise. I showed my guys today and every single boy dog there was getting their nose dabbed with vicks because there were a lot of girlies in season and the boys were losing their minds. LOL. And this was close quarters so any quarrelsome tendencies - would have been difficult to keep under wraps.

The only other thing is bigger emphasis that before you start conformation or other sports to prove a dog mental and physically meets the breed standard and is something special.... please make sure your dog gets full clearances.

Um... there was a moment where my youngest was completely sprawled out on the grass outside the ring today - full frog position and not caring a bit who or what was walking around him or stepping over. <= One lady with a spinone stopped and commented that was a very comfortable dog.... and good hips. And I smiled and told her, "Yep, you betcha. Wouldn't be here if they weren't." As much fun as conformation is.... it's quite expensive proving a dog who cannot be bred because of failed hips or elbows.

Talking to other people around my setup - there were more than a few who typically plop down $500-1500 on hotel accommodations for big shows (3-5 days). That's a lot to spend on a hobby you are doing just for fun.
 
#15 ·
So...I'm probably always the first to refuse to comment on a bad stack or bad photo/angle. And I'll say that's why I wouldn't comment on the face/expression/head photo - because it really doesn't show what we'd normally want to see with a head shot. The lighting and angle is funky. I guess as example, it appears she has good pigment (nose and eye rims), but her mouth does not appear to be as tight as preferred with this breed. And the angle of her head in the pic doesn't allow for a fair consideration of her muzze/head/headpiece.

Stacked picture is not as bad as some that I've seen. She definitely is long in body. And then there is something going on in her croup/tailset. It's either too straight a croup or a high tailset. Head/front appear nice in the first pic.

Now if she's 3 years old and doesn't like jumping in agility or dock jumping... get her hips and elbows checked/OFA cleared before you do anything. Assuming they have not yet been checked?

Try conformation and see if you enjoy it. ;) Hate to burst anyone's bubbles, but while I've been showing for 8 years.... I've seen a lot of people starting up.... and disappearing after 1-5 shows.

Conformation looks like an easy sport outside the ring or playing around at home. It does get tough when you enter the ring for a variety of reasons. And then you get people quitting because... their dog doesn't enjoy the sport.

If you are planning to breed the dog - my opinion is you should be able to take your dog into the show ring and show her. Among else, being able to show your dog shows that you have a dog who meets breed standard. It also teaches people what should be there - that's assuming they haven't gone all sour grapes while thinking their dogs have it and "the ref is blind". :)

As well - I gotta add that conformation shows are such that typically you have to have a nice dog - temperament wise. I showed my guys today and every single boy dog there was getting their nose dabbed with vicks because there were a lot of girlies in season and the boys were losing their minds. LOL. And this was close quarters so any quarrelsome tendencies - would have been difficult to keep under wraps.

The only other thing is bigger emphasis that before you start conformation or other sports to prove a dog mental and physically meets the breed standard and is something special.... please make sure your dog gets full clearances.

Um... there was a moment where my youngest was completely sprawled out on the grass outside the ring today - full frog position and not caring a bit who or what was walking around him or stepping over. <= One lady with a spinone stopped and commented that was a very comfortable dog.... and good hips. And I smiled and told her, "Yep, you betcha. Wouldn't be here if they weren't." As much fun as conformation is.... it's quite expensive proving a dog who cannot be bred because of failed hips or elbows.

Talking to other people around my setup - there were more than a few who typically plop down $500-1500 on hotel accommodations for big shows (3-5 days). That's a lot to spend on a hobby you are doing just for fun.
I. An assure you she just doesn’t like it because she is trained not to be distracted from my husband. She LOVES the water and to play rough. But only on her terms lol. Also, she sits in frog position all day long lol. I’ll find a funny picture. And yes her tail and croup do look a bit funky now that I look at that photo. I’ll try and get a better picture of her soon. We have a bad windstorm coming through that inhibited me. As for her muzzle. She got her mamas and it isn’t very tight. She has verrrryyyy dark pigment and has shades of light gold in her creamy coat. It’s so pretty! Thank you for responding! I really appreciate it!
 
#34 ·
Much better! So what I’m seeing (and take it with a grain of salt I’m still developing my eye) she’s long in body. Goldens are supposed to be just slightly off square, and your girl definitely seems to be longer there. You did a nice job of setting up her rear! She might look high in the rear because she’s posting in front, so next time really try to get those front feet directly under the shoulder. Hard to see them all the way but her feet look a little flat. One think you can do is practice in a mirror or take videos of yourself practicing so you see how she’s moving and looking and can watch it back to see where you both need improvement and where you’re doing well. I do this allllllll the time. It’s helpful!
 
#35 ·
Not to derail the thread but could someone explain flat feet to me? I’ve heard the term a few times. Is it referring to the angle of the pastern, or more the length of the toes? And what’s the difference between that and a hare foot? I found this picture.
Joint Head Hand Shoulder Arm
 
#42 · (Edited)
Hmm.... I'm not that crazy about the re-stack. Her front feet are a smidge forward and she's pushing off them. Her rear is slightly overstretched + I think her toes are out on the one side. She does appear high in the rear and there's more emphasis on that dip in her back - but I'm not honestly sure if she is or if it's how she is standing.

You can't really see her feet - so I'm not sure where people are seeing flat feet.

And I'm throwing this out here not because I see this in the above pic (feet aren't clearly in the picture) just because it's something to consider if you have a dog who posts often or doesn't like standing up squarely on his feet. One thing to keep in mind too is many show home dogs have their nails trimmed often for more than one reason. Among else, long nails can affect the feet. Not saying she has long nails, but that sometimes those nails can affect how the dogs stand on their feet. They kinda roll back on the feet because they honestly cannot stand up on their toes because their nails are so long.
Brown Dog Dog breed Carnivore Companion dog

For goldens we want round and tight feet. .

Head shot - main thing I noticed maybe was her ears look like they are set high.... But they don't look so high in the stack pictures....


One thing to throw out there is stacking these dogs.... it's something if you show, we practice a lot with our dogs. A dog stands correctly because the structure is there and there's no aches/pains causing him to distribute his weight funny. A dog also stands correctly because the conditioning and muscle memory is built up by the time he's an adult dog. A lot of show pups get a lot of practice learning to have their feet placed and do "food face" for rewards. So it is tough when you are starting all of this with a 3 year old. So the criticisms regarding foot placement and what's going on with her topline - unless you have somebody knowledgable and going over her, hands on - it can be difficult knowing whether it is simply a case of the stacks being very unfair to a nice dog.

Not sure if Robin and others mentioned getting a CCA on her or going that route - might be worth it, because generally speaking the judges are supposed to be kind with people who are not experienced handlers. A friend of mine had a miserable time trying to get her dog to trot for the CCA judges and they had somebody else move the dog and set him up so he could get the scores he deserved. .

A CCA might be useful particularly if you decide to breed her maybe a year or so down the road, after you do all the clearances - it would help you understand what to look for in a stud dog.

A nice stud dog can do a lot.... Especially if you go with one who is proven and brings a lot of strong points to the table. Assuming you are looking to produce pups who could be show dogs and CH's and take you places you might be dreaming of, you need to go with a boy that has the pedigree you can hang your hat on - but also has all the right things that you want to improve on with the puppies you get from your girlie if you decide to breed her. This is the reason why most experienced breeders tell new breeders to look elsewhere for a stud to breed their girls to. The very typical thing that a lot of people do is buying a boy who can be bred. The danger there is instead of using a boy who has everything their girl needs more of and has proven to do that as a stud dog, they may be trying to fix their girl using a stud who has his own problems that need fixing.

One of the people that I think Robin was referring to as somebody who was a mess to start with and turned everything around as she listened to what people were telling her... I vaguely remember that she was a member of this forum and recall she got lambasted for breeding a dog without clearances and there was a lot of other stuff besides that. The impression I had was when she started out, she was doing it alone without a mentor or without training her dogs.... and things were out of control. The dogs she owned at that time were not going anywhere. She had to earn the trust of breeders to let her co-own a show bred dog. And to get there, she had to listen and put the work in. Fast forward a few years and she is doing quite well, having put CH on a couple dogs. I believe that one of the top finishing goldens at the Westminster show this year - was her dog.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Hmm.... I'm not that crazy about the re-stack. Her front feet are a smidge forward and she's pushing off them. Her rear is slightly overstretched + I think her toes are out on the one side. She does appear high in the rear and there's more emphasis on that dip in her back - but I'm not honestly sure if she is or if it's how she is standing.

You can't really see her feet - so I'm not sure where people are seeing flat feet.

And I'm throwing this out here not because I see this in the above pic (feet aren't clearly in the picture) just because it's something to consider if you have a dog who posts often or doesn't like standing up squarely on his feet. One thing to keep in mind too is many show home dogs have their nails trimmed often for more than one reason. Among else, long nails can affect the feet. Not saying she has long nails, but that sometimes those nails can affect how the dogs stand on their feet. They kinda roll back on the feet because they honestly cannot stand up on their toes because their nails are so long.
View attachment 885987
For goldens we want round and tight feet. .

Head shot - main thing I noticed maybe was her ears look like they are set high.... But they don't look so high in the stack pictures....


One thing to throw out there is stacking these dogs.... it's something if you show, we practice a lot with our dogs. A dog stands correctly because the structure is there and there's no aches/pains causing him to distribute his weight funny. A dog also stands correctly because the conditioning and muscle memory is built up by the time he's an adult dog. A lot of show pups get a lot of practice learning to have their feet placed and do "food face" for rewards. So it is tough when you are starting all of this with a 3 year old. So the criticisms regarding foot placement and what's going on with her topline - unless you have somebody knowledgable and going over her, hands on - it can be difficult knowing whether it is simply a case of the stacks being very unfair to a nice dog.

Not sure if Robin and others mentioned getting a CCA on her or going that route - might be worth it, because generally speaking the judges are supposed to be kind with people who are not experienced handlers. A friend of mine had a miserable time trying to get her dog to trot for the CCA judges and they had somebody else move the dog and set him up so he could get the scores he deserved. .

A CCA might be useful particularly if you decide to breed her maybe a year or so down the road, after you do all the clearances - it would help you understand what to look for in a stud dog.

A nice stud dog can do a lot.... Especially if you go with one who is proven and brings a lot of strong points to the table. Assuming you are looking to produce pups who could be show dogs and CH's and take you places you might be dreaming of, you need to go with a boy that has the pedigree you can hang your hat on - but also has all the right things that you want to improve on with the puppies you get from your girlie if you decide to breed her. This is the reason why most experienced breeders tell new breeders to look elsewhere for a stud to breed their girls to. The very typical thing that a lot of people do is buying a boy who can be bred. The danger there is instead of using a boy who has everything their girl needs more of and has proven to do that as a stud dog, they may be trying to fix their girl using a stud who has his own problems that need fixing.

One of the people that I think Robin was referring to as somebody who was a mess to start with and turned everything around as she listened to what people were telling her... I vaguely remember that she was a member of this forum and recall she got lambasted for breeding a dog without clearances and there was a lot of other stuff besides that. The impression I had was when she started out, she was doing it alone without a mentor or without training her dogs.... and things were out of control. The dogs she owned at that time were not going anywhere. She had to earn the trust of breeders to let her co-own a show bred dog. And to get there, she had to listen and put the work in. Fast forward a few years and she is doing quite well, having put CH on a couple dogs. I believe that one of the top finishing goldens at the Westminster show this year - was her dog.
Her nails are quite long but not overly long…our groomer is backed up so I am going to try tonight or tomorrow(literally JUST got all the stuff to groom my 2 adult dogs today!)but her feet are not out right...and her back doesn’t dip, I think my black shirt was making it worse. Her back and tail go straight without me holding the head up higher. So likely posting… I have looked into CCA and have 2 studs(one being mine) who will really improve her weaknesses! My stud(the one I own) is not done growing so I have a back up boy if he doesn’t mature the way I’m hoping he continues to do. He’s a taller blocker boy(Luna is shorter(21 inches) with better ear positioning and much blocker head and a shorter body. Most of her head shots were when I was squeezing a toy so it likely made them look higher but I know she has a weakness there haha! I’ll try to stack her up a bit better after she is groomed and see if the nails being shorter help and make sure she doesn’t post too much. Thank you for your in depth response!!
 
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