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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Why not just do OFA's - hips and elbows? Get it done. One stop, all done, out of your hair - posted publicly on OFA.

Also - if she's 3, then she should have 3 years worth of eye clearances.

As well, heart clearance from cardiologist.

The advantage of using OFA is when you are making puppies in the next year or so (age 3, she's not getting any younger), when buyers ask about clearances - you just email a link to her OFA page. It's all there. And it will make you look good for getting it done prior to breeding.

OFA is great for posting publicly not just the hips/elbows - but everything else, including the DNA stuff.

It is worth getting it done. Especially as it seems you are eager to start spending money and getting started with her.
And if PH is your thing, one of the views is also the OFA view- it'd cost you an additional $10 or so to add hips to the elbows, since PH doesn't do elbows. Do both if you must do PH.
I’m doing them both! Just using Pennhip for hips and ofa for the rest!
 

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Kate
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As for the OFA hips, I like that Pennhip is more based off science rather than opinion. Although I will likely send them to OFA anyways since one radiograph can be used:)
PH is useful as a breeder tool.

OFA is useful as a database and a comparative authority when you are reviewing a pedigree based on clearances that are pass or fail.

IF you are serious about using PH as a breeding tool - then do so. But you should still do OFA clearances.

PH is a measurement of how loose the hips are.... how much they come out of the socket, etc....

OFA is a pass/fail system with a publicly accessible database to keep breeders honest.

Both work well together... but I would suggest that puppy buyers walk if OFA's are not all there.

I personally don't see PH as a clearance. If OFA hips aren't there, I primarily see that as a breeder hiding a fail... or they are not happy with the grade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
PH is useful as a breeder tool.

OFA is useful as a database and a comparative authority when you are reviewing a pedigree based on clearances that are pass or fail.

IF you are serious about using PH as a breeding tool - then do so. But you should still do OFA clearances.

PH is a measurement of how loose the hips are.... how much they come out of the socket, etc....

OFA is a pass/fail system with a publicly accessible database to keep breeders honest.

Both work well together... but I would suggest that puppy buyers walk if OFA's are not all there.

I personally don't see PH as a clearance. If OFA hips aren't there, I primarily see that as a breeder hiding a fail... or they are not happy with the grade.
Well that’s totally up to a puppy buyer and is very smart! I’m still researching on which I want to pursue as my primary testing for hips. Though I think I’m leaning towards just doing both if that’s the way puppy buyer see it(haven’t run into it yet)
 

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Well that’s totally up to a puppy buyer and is very smart! I’m still researching on which I want to pursue as my primary testing for hips. Though I think I’m leaning towards just doing both if that’s the way puppy buyer see it(haven’t run into it yet)
The thing is that the majority of puppy buyers don’t understand clearances well at all. There’s a decent percentage of unethical breeders out there doing PH that hide behind the numbers knowing puppy buyers won’t understand them. OFA is better for puppy buyers because they can see the family history - or lack thereof - all in one spot.

The OFA reviews are pretty comprehensive. They are looking at the actual bone structure in addition to laxity. It’s not just “someone’s opinion”. It’s a review by three qualified radiologists and the final rating is the consensus. OFA has a ton of information on how hips and elbows are reviewed on their site.
 

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PH is useful as a breeder tool.

OFA is useful as a database and a comparative authority when you are reviewing a pedigree based on clearances that are pass or fail.

IF you are serious about using PH as a breeding tool - then do so. But you should still do OFA clearances.

PH is a measurement of how loose the hips are.... how much they come out of the socket, etc....

OFA is a pass/fail system with a publicly accessible database to keep breeders honest.

Both work well together... but I would suggest that puppy buyers walk if OFA's are not all there.

I personally don't see PH as a clearance. If OFA hips aren't there, I primarily see that as a breeder hiding a fail... or they are not happy with the grade.
I also do not see PH as a clearance. PH is an evaluation of laxity. That's all. I don't know but a small handful of good breeders who do not use OFA with PH, and the 'clearance' is the OFA piece.
I see crappy breeders using animals in the DI range of 50+ and that's clearly a fail if they'd used OFA.

I’m doing them both! Just using Pennhip for hips and ofa for the rest!
Since it costs so little to add in the OFA view when PH is done, and you get a truly good eval using both tools, PLUS an actual clearance, doing both is the reasonable thing to do. As well, you'd pay just as much to have the PH verified and listed on OFA which is the only independent database in the US and that part of the Code is hard and fast. I only see one PH vet in Alaska, in Fairbanks.
 

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Kate
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Well that’s totally up to a puppy buyer and is very smart! I’m still researching on which I want to pursue as my primary testing for hips. Though I think I’m leaning towards just doing both if that’s the way puppy buyer see it(haven’t run into it yet)
Again - with a 3 year old, you are starting to run out of time.... especially if there is a plan in motion to breed the dog. Or she has already been bred. You are already a year late as far as getting hips and elbows done. There should have been 3 years of eye clearances on her by now. And you are 2 years late for a heart clearance. Generally speaking each of these things need to get done... now. It is the first and most important way to prove your dog as breeding worthy.

A lot of us who show our dogs, etc... we can't wait until they are 24 months old, because that's when we can do OFA finals and like I said elsewhere... you can get that elephant off your back. That's what people do when they take these hobbies pretty seriously. It's not strutting around the ring like toddlers and tiaras - but with dogs. Not to us.

I competed in obedience with a wonderful dog with hip dysplasia. I was very proud of him and happy to go out there with him - but the tough thing in the back of your head the whole time is knowing that while he's turning heads and catching eyes, you have to tell people over and over that he cannot be bred because he failed clearances. With this dog I never had to post pictures online to ask people's opinions of him, because this was a dog who was out there and visible to many golden people. I didn't have to ask people if he was conformation quality, because I literally had people approaching me and telling me I should show him. Which I declined as I told them straight up that my dog had failed hips. I hated that feeling, which is why the first thing I did when the dogs that followed were old enough was doing all the required clearances for this breed. And you can't beat that feeling when your dogs clear everything. It's the best day of your life kind of feeling. And the shows that follow, there's an extra skip to your step knowing those clearances are there! There's nothing nagging or worrying in the back of your mind.

Separately from all that - If you have already bred her without any clearances, if somebody asked about you here, the consensus would be to tell the puppy buyers to run away very fast. Doesn't matter what your girlie looks like or what titles she has. Likewise, many of the breed referrals would not list your litter or recommend you because there are no clearances on your breeding dog.

PH is something that a lot of people latch onto for a variety of reasons. But here's the thing, most of the breeders I know of who highly value PH and do it as a rule with their dogs.... it is done in addition to OFA hips/elbow clearances. It's not an either or thing. They do it all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Again - with a 3 year old, you are starting to run out of time.... especially if there is a plan in motion to breed the dog. Or she has already been bred. You are already a year late as far as getting hips and elbows done. There should have been 3 years of eye clearances on her by now. And you are 2 years late for a heart clearance. Generally speaking each of these things need to get done... now. It is the first and most important way to prove your dog as breeding worthy.

A lot of us who show our dogs, etc... we can't wait until they are 24 months old, because that's when we can do OFA finals and like I said elsewhere... you can get that elephant off your back. That's what people do when they take these hobbies pretty seriously. It's not strutting around the ring like toddlers and tiaras - but with dogs. Not to us.

I competed in obedience with a wonderful dog with hip dysplasia. I was very proud of him and happy to go out there with him - but the tough thing in the back of your head the whole time is knowing that while he's turning heads and catching eyes, you have to tell people over and over that he cannot be bred because he failed clearances. With this dog I never had to post pictures online to ask people's opinions of him, because this was a dog who was out there and visible to many golden people. I didn't have to ask people if he was conformation quality, because I literally had people approaching me and telling me I should show him. Which I declined as I told them straight up that my dog had failed hips. I hated that feeling, which is why the first thing I did when the dogs that followed were old enough was doing all the required clearances for this breed. And you can't beat that feeling when your dogs clear everything. It's the best day of your life kind of feeling. And the shows that follow, there's an extra skip to your step knowing those clearances are there! There's nothing nagging or worrying in the back of your mind.

Separately from all that - If you have already bred her without any clearances, if somebody asked about you here, the consensus would be to tell the puppy buyers to run away very fast. Doesn't matter what your girlie looks like or what titles she has. Likewise, many of the breed referrals would not list your litter or recommend you because there are no clearances on your breeding dog.

PH is something that a lot of people latch onto for a variety of reasons. But here's the thing, most of the breeders I know of who highly value PH and do it as a rule with their dogs.... it is done in addition to OFA hips/elbow clearances. It's not an either or thing. They do it all.
Thank you so much everybody for all this information! I’ll Definately be looking closer into what shows go on around me! And I will be ping PH AND OFAs!!! I don’t want anybody to not trust us as a breeder! Have a blessed day all of you! B>
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
She’s a pretty girl!! If you’re able to get a level photo of her standing square I’d love to see.
I’d love that! I should’ve done it today🤦🏼‍♀️ It was so nice and sunny! I’ll try my luck tomorrow!!! In the meantime feel free to enjoy her crazy sweetness haha!
Dog Dog breed Carnivore Grass Fawn
 
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