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Kate
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Most puppies will be able to do most of the work required of a WC Test at 10 to 12 weeks of age.
I've seen videos on youtube re WC test and that looks very basic and sort of what we taught the dogs in class years ago. It's stuff I think any retriever will do. Basically direct retrieves and unlike with obedience where you send the dogs and wait for them to return with you standing stock still like a statue, I heard the owners repeatedly guiding/calling the dogs as they were coming back. And the dogs weren't even sitting when they got back. <= I hope I wasn't watching the wrong videos, but that was stuff that I think most dogs can do without much training. o_O

The issue that pops up though is I'm friends with people who do field and that's their focal point. So the puppies ARE getting their mouths on birds very early. And the owners have access to working fields, ponds, guns, and training buddies where the dogs are really used to all of that stuff.

Where you have disconnect with people out there is retrieves are very easily broken. It's one of the easiest exercises to totally mess up as an owner. And the dogs learn the keep away game or they learn they don't HAVE to bring stuff back to their owners.

The other issue is I have friends in conformation who have very high energy goldens and these goldens have not received early training that most field and obedience dogs get as puppies. So my friends literally turn white as a sheet when they see a dog off leash in an uncontained area, because their experience with their dogs is they will run.

A lot of old field people put a lot of blame on the dogs for not being what they should be, but owners bear responsibility. I've seen it in obedience. Actually there is somebody very close to me who drives me nuts because she bought a dynamic dog. This dog was a DREAM dog. Super smart, very owner focused, very eager to please, eager to work, etc.

And this puppy is going on 8 months... and he still hasn't been taught any off leash work or stays. :surprise: And this owner is terrified of taking her dog off leash, because she's rightfully certain that this dog will just run.

This owner, you can't put all the blame on her. It's where she trains.

But back to what I said before - if training clubs put an effort into getting more people with puppies comfortable with doing WC tests. I would not have a doubt that more and more goldens out there would have these certificates. And the very least you would have that on conformation dogs, as the owners would be putting that much time in. Maybe not everyone, because people do not seem dedicated as others to training their own dogs in anything. But you would get more cross over if there were more easy access. But if field people cross over to get CCA's done on their dogs. I'd say that with more access (at training clubs, more diversified ways of training, less shock more fun), that you would have more show people getting WC's on their dogs. Which I believe those are the equivalents.

If it's something where they can reasonably train basics and "rehearse" the test through classes at a training club. It can be done. And not just morning classes for retirees and homemakers...

That said, doubt it would draw everyone I can think of... some people already have access to obedience classes, and they don't them with their dogs. They barely make it for handling classes if they do. A lot of the training of the conformation dogs is done by pro handlers. And there is training involved....
 

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Two comments...
First, getting a well bred puppy to go out and pick up a bird at 10-12 weeks is a no brainer, they go crazy over the birds. Getting them to give it up, however, can be a bit more challenging ;).
Second, find a field trainer in your area and take your puppy for an evaluation. Most are happy to do it for a reasonable fee. You'd probably really enjoy the experience.

"A WC is designed to test natural "Inborn Traits". Asking that a dog demonstrate that it will go out, pick up a . That is, it isn't IF your dog has correct temperament and personality for the breed. Most well bred puppies will be able to do most of the work required of a WC Test at 10 to 12 weeks of age."


I would love to see if this would work. The puppy I am getting I am confident could do this but I actually want to see it.
 

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Actually I've seen pretty well trained dogs fail a WC because it's so easy compared to what they are training for they can't handle it. A dog who constantly trains on 200-300 yard marks can have a hard time checking up to pick up a 40 yard plop!
 

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Yes, they do.
Used to be pheasants on land and ducks in water, not sure what they do now. Some clubs have used pigeons, too.

Barb - with the WC... are they using birds for both land and water retrieves?
 

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Kate
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Yes, they do.
Used to be pheasants on land and ducks in water, not sure what they do now. Some clubs have used pigeons, too.
The videos I watched - looked like ducks in the water.

I couldn't tell what the dogs were retrieving on land though - it was something that looked "pink" in the one video I watched.

This is the type of thing that I'd need to take classes for with my guys, because my dogs are NOT getting introduced very early to birds the way dogs in field homes are. The first thing that went into Bertie's mouth was a metal article.
 

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Gotta disagree. Tito never saw a bird (or bumper) until he was 3. We ran WC and JH right away anyway.
The WC is supposed to measure "what came in the box", not what was trained in.
Most, if not all, clubs have a bird or two at the WC site for you to mess around with before you run. It's really all you need.

The videos I watched - looked like ducks in the water.

I couldn't tell what the dogs were retrieving on land though - it was something that looked "pink" in the one video I watched.

This is the type of thing that I'd need to take classes for with my guys, because my dogs are NOT getting introduced very early to birds the way dogs in field homes are. The first thing that went into Bertie's mouth was a metal article.
 

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Kate
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Gotta disagree. Tito never saw a bird (or bumper) until he was 3. We ran WC and JH right away anyway.
The WC is supposed to measure "what came in the box", not what was trained in.
Most, if not all, clubs have a bird or two at the WC site for you to mess around with before you run. It's really all you need.
Bertie's been trained with bumpers.

But the only birds that he's seen usually are associated with me screaming "LEAVE IT!" LOL.

I really doubt that my guys would know that it's OK to pick up a dead bird. A lot of leave it training can trump instinct... ;)
 

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Going back to the original post, the first US golden retriever specialty had 2 events: field trial and conformation. And today both of those events are still at every single national specialty. As they should stay that way.

Can we have another dual champion (field and show)? Probably not. Too specialized in both areas. I hope some day we can again. Labs haven't either in decades. But chessies have! There is one here in my town. Owner trained chessie with a Ch and a FC. If chessies can do it, maybe we can some day too.

Go have fun with your dog. Try anything and everything. You never know what you or your dog will do well with. Every dog is different, every handler is different.

Golden retrievers are the best breed because we can do so much with them.
 

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Bertie's been trained with bumpers.

But the only birds that he's seen usually are associated with me screaming "LEAVE IT!" LOL.

I really doubt that my guys would know that it's OK to pick up a dead bird. A lot of leave it training can trump instinct... ;)
Winter was well over 1 on dead birds and well over 2 for live flyers. She is soft mouthed but prey drive shone though and she never had problems picking up birds dispite no exposure as pup.
 

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If your goal is to win at all costs, regardless of whether your personal pursuit of excellence increases demand for dogs that are at or beyond an extreme, then that, in this one person’s opinion, seems very self-centered. It certainly doesn’t seem like the position of someone interested in the betterment of any breed.
Wow, this place never changes. Rude and nasty comments should not be tolerated.
 

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Wow, this place never changes. Rude and nasty comments should not be tolerated.
LOL ... true ... not only was that a gross misinterpretation of what was said ... it's highly likely that the poster has never personally seen an FC AFC Golden, much less spent enough time with one to realize that the EXTREME attributes desirable in a competitive field dog are intelligence, athleticism, courage, watery nature, soundness, obedient. And I have heard from a pretty good source that at least one FC AFC was an outstanding therapy dog at a children's hospital. Yeah, those darned extreme dogs ....
 

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LOL ... true ... not only was that a gross misinterpretation of what was said ... it's highly likely that the poster has never personally seen an FC AFC Golden, much less spent enough time with one to realize that the EXTREME attributes desirable in a competitive field dog are intelligence, athleticism, courage, watery nature, soundness, obedient. And I have heard from a pretty good source that at least one FC AFC was an outstanding therapy dog at a children's hospital. Yeah, those darned extreme dogs ....
If my comments were interpreted as rude, then I apologize, as that was not the intent. It was meant as an observation, based on your phrasing. I'd like to point out that you stated quite adamantly that you want an "extreme dog," in no uncertain terms, as that is what it takes to win. I fail to see how that can be misinterpreted. I refuse to argue with you about the qualities required to compete in a FT because the qualities required to win may or may not line up with the breed standard. I interpreted your post to mean that you want a dog that can win, regardless of whether that dog fits into the standard. If that is not what you meant, then I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. If you did, indeed, mean that winning is more important than the dog fitting into the standard, then my comments stand accurate as posted.
 

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First, I want to say how much I loved Quar, and his kids and grandkids got me through childhood. Right up until my grandfather died, my goldens hunted with him in real time. The second thing I want to say is I believe , hope, and would do just about anything to support Anney if she becomes that one amazing person to break the half a century long drought or even better it with a GCH/AFC or CH/FC CH/AFC. I think I will send her 1,ooo flowers or maybe 1,000 dog toys and admire that more than any olympic gold medal. The rest of us are not going to do that, and speaking for myself I don't have the right stuff- inside myself, aside from inside one of my dogs. On the other hand, I'm not a slouch. I am a second generation golden person who went from growing up with hunting and obedience goldens, to pets, to some top show dogs who also do therapy work and some simple obedience titles like CD. I train dogs all day, dogs and puppies of all breeds at many levels and own a very thriving training center with five instructors and always-full classes . So. From my perspective, such as it is, Anney is one of the few who might breed/ own a dog who absolutely embodies every spirit and letter of the standard. The rest of us- some are closer than others- really can't police the other sports very well. We breed what we find ethical, what has integrity to us and is timelessly compliant with the breed standard. We learn grow, and change our view over time or we find our place and make it the best place it can be.
 

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Discussion Starter #116
The second thing I want to say is I believe , hope, and would do just about anything to support Anney if she becomes that one amazing person to break the half a century long drought or even better it with a GCH/AFC or CH/FC CH/AFC. I think I will send her 1,ooo flowers or maybe 1,000 dog toys and admire that more than any olympic gold medal. The rest of us are not going to do that, and speaking for myself I don't have the right stuff- inside myself, aside from inside one of my dogs.
I disagree and I believe Anney will agree with me when I say anyone can do it, they just need to want it, do I think ill get anywhere near the titles she has heck no. Will I give it the good old college try Yep I will.
 

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Jamie
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I disagree and I believe Anney will agree with me when I say anyone can do it, they just need to want it, do I think ill get anywhere near the titles she has heck no. Will I give it the good old college try Yep I will.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. AFC's are very difficult to get with a field bred dog, let alone a dog that would also do well in a show ring (especially to a GCH level). It takes more than just wanting it. You need the right talented owner in combination with that once in a lifetime dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #118
I'm going to have to disagree with you. AFC's are very difficult to get with a field bred dog, let alone a dog that would also do well in a show ring (especially to a GCH level). It takes more than just wanting it. You need the right talented owner in combination with that once in a lifetime dog.
I was being positive. Now i am going to do research into Gch and AFC
 

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aka Shelby
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I'm going to have to disagree with you. AFC's are very difficult to get with a field bred dog, let alone a dog that would also do well in a show ring (especially to a GCH level). It takes more than just wanting it. You need the right talented owner in combination with that once in a lifetime dog.

Yeah I was thinking that getting qualified is pretty hard with a field golden let alone a conformation breed. I honestly don't think a conformation golden would have the endurance and physical build that would be suitable for the training alone that goes into attaining a FC or AFC. And that isn't an insult it is just a fact.
 
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