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buying a puppy from PA

7K views 36 replies 20 participants last post by  mx3fam 
#1 ·
my hubby is going to "surprise" me with a puppy - only i snooped and found out.:) I am concerned the puppy is from a puppy mill. all i know is that the puppy is from Gap or Manheim PA and from Leroy Stotzfus. I know this area is notorius for puppy mills.
I don't want to say anything unless I know for sure. Anyone?

mykidsmom2001@sbcglobal.net
 
#5 ·
I would try to stop your husband if you can. You would hate to have a "present" that ended up costing you and arm and a leg because it was unhealthy. That is no good for anyone. I'm sure others on here can recommend a good breeder in your area.

Good for you for doing your homework!
 
#6 ·
I would own up to snooping....your husbands heart is dear and sweet for wanting to surprise you....Im sure you can find a gentle way to let him know you found out and how much you are looking forward to finding the perfect puppy together..
 
#8 ·
I would. On the Greenfield site you posted it says only the father is hip certified....and only mentions the hips. Nothing about elbows, heart, eyes.

It is a hard decision you have to make. I only say this after having owned a golden with multiple health issues, including having a total hip replacement done at age three.
 
#9 ·
I'd like to throw in here...

If the pups coming, and there is nothing you can do to stop it now, forget EVERYTHING in this thread. Just get it out of your mind.

He'll be your friend and sweetheart regardless of where he came from. You'll give him a good home, and he'll love you always.

He doesn't know where he came from. He'll just be happy to have a forever home :) And you'll be happy to have him :)
 
#10 ·
I'd like to throw in here...

If the pups coming, and there is nothing you can do to stop it now, forget EVERYTHING in this thread. Just get it out of your mind.

He'll be your friend and sweetheart regardless of where he came from. You'll give him a good home, and he'll love you always.

He doesn't know where he came from. He'll just be happy to have a forever home :) And you'll be happy to have him :)
I agree - ditto
 
#11 ·
:doh: While every puppy that is born deserves a home as it is not their fault for having been produced by millers, purchasing from puppy mills only furthers their cause. The price paid is usually no less than what a reputable breeding producing puppies from health cleared parents will charge, and often more, not to mention the increased odds that you will be likley to have to put far more into veterinary care.
 
#13 ·
I can't fathom the "what's done is done" part of this - nothing is set in stone yet. You are choosing a family member - not a piece of jewelry. Fess up to the snooping - Let your husband know that it's a WONDERFUL, thoughtful and loving idea but you want to go into puppy-hood with open eyes and that means doing a bit of research and finding the right puppy...
Erica
 
#14 ·
Thank you ALL so much!!! In a round about way I was able to find out that it would devaste my hubby to know that I know about his surprise- he has worked SO hard to keep it a secret. So I think I must just leave it alone and take nuttinbut advice. I would ruin everything if I said a word...even my 8 year old has been able to keep it a secret! Thank you all. I will post pics. I will love this dog for who he is.

Thanks again.
 
#33 ·
Thank you ALL so much!!! In a round about way I was able to find out that it would devaste my hubby to know that I know about his surprise- he has worked SO hard to keep it a secret. So I think I must just leave it alone and take nuttinbut advice. I would ruin everything if I said a word...even my 8 year old has been able to keep it a secret! Thank you all. I will post pics. I will love this dog for who he is.

Thanks again.
Although we all know what the Lancaster area is know for as far as dogs go, I have had two of my most georgous Rottweilers from Lancaster, neither dog ever had medical issues and both lived very long healthy lives. My dogs were not from typical puppy mills but rather from private Amish owners who breed dogs within the Amish community, and both owners were named Stolzfus. I have become educated about health clearances now and would not repeat those purchases that I made many years ago. That said.....how many well bred clearanced dogs do I read about on GRF that have seizure, thyriod, dysplasia, and many other health issues. I sure don't want to condemn well bred dogs and reputable breeders but it is not a given that you will get a healthy dog from them and a sick dog from an Amish farmer who breeds his own stock.
I guess what I'm saying is, in the perfect world we all should research out our canine purchases to the best of our ability in search of the best dog we can obtain from a reputable breeder. however referring Marys' situation, if my spouse and family put that kind of effort in surprizing me with a dog and it was that far along, I would not pull the plug on them or the dog very easily.
WagonDog
 
#15 ·
Not sure if you meant Stoltzfus.... but that is typically an Amish or Mennonite last name. (At least in PA)
 
#17 ·
I know your mind is made up, but as I look down at my girl curled up in a ball, I just want you to take a moment to think about where that pup came from. You're not only taking a gamble on this pup's health & temperament (I doubt it was properly socialized) you're also supporting what I consider abuse against the dogs being bred. My girl escaped from a puppy mill at the age of 3.5 yrs only because the miller died in a car accident (talk about what goes around, comes around)...she is forever scarred based on her life there (born in one mill sold to another) she does have her good days but she has a whole lot bad ones that I can't make better. I love her nonetheless & in her own way I think she likes me too, but I can't help but think about what kind of girl she would have been had she had the chance to be a "normal" pup...had she not been born into the hands of a puppy mill. Understand all pups deserve a home, but just think about what you're supporting.
 
#18 ·
but I can't help but think about what kind of girl she would have been had she had the chance to be a "normal" pup...had she not been born into the hands of a puppy mill.
It's interesting you say that... we often talk the same way about Jonie. Jonie is our current foster who was a breeder dog at a puppy mill. She's made a tremendous amount of progress in the almost three months that she's been here but she of course will have some scars that will follow her the rest of her life. She is turning into a good dog... starting to actually act like a dog. We always talk about how her life could have been so different... how different of a dog she would have been. We are picking up the pieces and she will end her life with a family.... hopefully happy as a pig in poo.... but I cringe thinking about her first 5-7 years living in h*ll.
 
#19 ·
Yep, while I wonder what kind of gal she could have been, I have to remind myself to stay in the present and work towards her future...I know we spend a lot of time "educating" folks here on the potential pitfalls of purchasing from BYBs & pet stores and the risk they're taking with the puppy, I also don't want people to forget about the breeder dogs left behind to churn out those pups in the pet shops & classified ads.
 
#20 ·
Mary, while you may think it would devastate your husband to have the "surprise" ruined, I'll bet that it would devastate him even more to know the pathetic and abusive circumstances that this pup is likely coming from. You're looking at a family member who will be with you for 10-15 years. Do you really want an unhealthy and mentally challenged dog as that family member, because that's very likely what you will be getting. In your shoes, I would fess up to knowing what's going on, explain puppy mills to your husband and child(ren) and begin the search for a well-bred golden puppy. I don't think your kids or your husband will be amused when the puppy has to have hip surgery or any of a number of health issues. Please reconsider!!!!
 
#21 ·
I hope that you are able to tell your husband about finding out about the puppy. My first golden (he's almost 12 now) was from a pet store. My parents have put thousands of dollars into him. He's hypothyroid, he had hip dysplasia and had $2-3000 in surgery, has terrible skin allergies, and now requires a lot of medication.

While no breeder can guarantee that a living being will be 100% without problems, I would much rather go with someone reputable that has tried to breed responsibly. A breeder will be able to give you support for the duration of the dog's life- you won't have that with this BYB. I think that you should prepare yourself for a dog that will possibly be unhealthy & under-socialized. It could turn into heartbreak emotionally and financially. Though, it may also turn out just fine. Is it worth the gamble?

I'm not here to tell you what to do. I just want you to be able to learn from our mistakes.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Not sure if this is the same, but when I saw "Gap" in your post, I remembered about this thread on Gap View Kennels which you may want to read if that is the "breeder":

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/showthread.php?t=57638


Good luck and hope that you are able to break it gently to your hubby and steer him in a direction to get a healthy pup from a reputable breeder!

ETA: I have no idea how close PA is to VA, but Gap View is located in VA.
 
#24 ·
I think it's a shame that people are willing to gloss over the fact that this puppy is from a puppymill and seem to think it's okay because the puppy has already been born. If people continue to line the pockets of millers by condoning the purchase of these animals, they will keep breeding and mistreating these poor dogs. Each time someone buys a puppy, they encourage the miller to do it again.

I have fostered a mill puppy who was 4 months old when he came into the program. I couldn't even consider putting him up for adoption for 2 months because he was so damaged by his neglect and he had absolutely no trust in any humans except for me and my husband. Why would anyone want to continue this cycle by purchasing one of their dogs?
 
#26 ·
I agree with Nuttin But Goldens. The puppy is born and deserves a good family. Obviously your husband loves you very much and this is important to him. Once you get that puppy home he will be the most perfect dog ever. I do agree with the advice to get pet insurance though, just in case there are unexpected health issues.
 
#28 ·
Thanks to everyone that shared with me. My hubby "surprised" me with my puppy yesterday. I went with him and met the Amish guy. It didn't seem like a puppy mill. But obviously wasn't the same as one show dog breeder I visited last year. I found out my hubby did his research (which he NEVER does). He contacted a local breeder who charges $1,400. Which is WAY more than we can afford. He got a referral from a coworker and called a couple places. AND was SO proud of himself for being able to surprise me. It was the right call to keep my mouth shut. I'm not saying you didn't all have good points. I wouldn't want to support a mill- but hurting my hubby (especially when it doesn't appear to be a mill) would have been worse. He is VERY sensitive.
I posted a pic. I will be searching the forum for tips on everything.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
 
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