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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

I lost my beautiful beloved rescued (1 yo) golden retriever Scarlet at age 12.3 about a month ago.

I'm digging in on finding a breeder to fit what we want on another thread and have been busily digging into information and breeder. In between grieving over her death and growling over the likelihood that puppies at reputable breeders are likely unavailable until Spring 2021, I think I've learned that one of my favorite unique traits about my dearly departed golden might be, (fake horror) a breed disqualifying trait!

I think my girl was 'brown-skinned' rather than 'black-skinned'. She had a pale nose and no black eye rims. I've attached a photo of her at age ~4.

(also for haha stories: Buy house with sunroom with fountain. Acquire rescue golden retriever. Find out that goldens think the best thing to do first thing in the morning is get in the fountain. Drain fountain because a pool inside the house is not an option).

Thoughts? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Also, now I know part of why I like part of the look of tollers ('brown-skinned').

Show dog she wasn't. Athlete she was.

One of the only articles I could find online about the phenomenon.
874475
 

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Puddles
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Sweet baby! Sorry for your loss. You are correct, good breeders want dark pigment which means dark around the eyes, black nose and pads.
How about visiting all the local kill shelters and leave a flyer to express your desire for a golden. Rescues seldom take in owner intakes, they visit the shelters and pull the adoptable dogs. Then vet them and spay/neuter and find them a foster. The people at the city pounds and kill shelters don't want to see good dogs killed so work really hard to find alternatives and have a great network system. Use this to your advantage and work with them to find you a dog in a kill shelter. The staff would prefer the dogs go to good homes vs being put in rescue. Can't hurt to try.
 

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There are quite a few GR Rescues that take Owner surrenders and also pull from area Shelters.

The shelters in my area have to make any purebred dog available for adoption to the public for at least three days then if the dog is not adopted, a Rescue can pull it.

Most shelters in my area if there is a dog with a medical issue such as being HW positive, it is only available to Rescues because the shelter knows the dog will receive the HW treatment needed prior to being available for adoption.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I live on the front range (Colorado). Golden Retriever Rescue of the Rockies, Retriever Rescue of Colorado, and Golden Retriever Freedom Rescue all have a significant presence here. We have fostered quite a few dogs for GRRR. Our recently rescued 11 yo golden is from GRRR and Scarlet came from GRRR 11 years ago. My folks dog (RIP Zoey 2019) was a sort of foster-failure (we fostered her). Our first call was to GRRR to say how about another oldie goldie to buddy up to our 11 yo. None available. There is quite literally a golden retriever shortage in Colorado at all ages.

I worry disreputable individuals will fill demand or that we will have a wave of surrenders next year as everyone exits puppy cuteness and enters juvenile punksiness.

In any case, if we go the rescue route this year it won't be a golden which I'm not prepared to do (yet?).
 

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She was by far the best dog we've ever had, childhood or otherwise. Very tough act to follow!

I'd be happy to take the reject puppy without the black eye liner, as long as they have the hips to run.

Sweet baby! Sorry for your loss. You are correct, good breeders want dark pigment which means dark around the eyes, black nose and pads.
How about visiting all the local kill shelters and leave a flyer to express your desire for a golden. Rescues seldom take in owner intakes, they visit the shelters and pull the adoptable dogs. Then vet them and spay/neuter and find them a foster. The people at the city pounds and kill shelters don't want to see good dogs killed so work really hard to find alternatives and have a great network system. Use this to your advantage and work with them to find you a dog in a kill shelter. The staff would prefer the dogs go to good homes vs being put in rescue. Can't hurt to try.
 

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Kate
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It's not a breed disqualifying trait.... just a really bad fault that is very difficult to breed away from.

People might think that a dog has good pigment when they are 2 years old (and used for breeding), but noses may fade by 3+. I think this is why it is such a struggle for some breeders to breed for good pigment. There's various ways I've heard of breeders trying to pick pups for themselves based on which pups they think have good pigment which is there to stay.

Most or many pet dogs out there get the faded noses - and it drives the owners nuts trying to figure out what causes the fade. If it's not hereditary, maybe it's caused by a vitamin D deficiency, or plastic, or a virus, etc... but it's generally just hereditary. There might be something else involved like food, bedding, etc... but the most obvious answer is good pigment is hereditary + good luck.

It's not really a rare phenomenon. It's a common fault.

Retrieverman is a nut, fwiw.

For getting a golden retrievers, you should be more worried about health, temperament, and finding a good and responsible breeder who knows what's what.
 

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Megora,

Yeah, I've been learning a lot on this forum and elsewhere about things like OFA and genetic testing. Unfortunately, strong market pressure (demand for puppies and dogs) makes it difficult to do an ideal search as many breeders have no litters available or upcoming etc.

Regarding retrieverman: why is he a nut? Is there something incorrect about the black vs brown skinned?

Regarding general breed standard: in Colorado, the breed seems to be almost dividing into breeders for cream or white golden retrievers that we haven't seen demonstrate the same athleticism and drive as the darker colored goldens. While no dog will be exactly like her, we want a dog more like her than the blonde couch retrievers.

Scarlet was longer, leaner, more athletic, and darker in color. In terms of temperament, she had more drive to retrieve, more willfulness, and strong attachment to her pack (people and dog friends). She was generally without interest in stranger's dogs or strangers. Thus far, the best we've been able to figure out is that a field line might be better for us than a non-field line. Not all field breeders sell to non-hunting homes that might compete but haven't previously.

So in terms of your advice "For getting a golden retrievers, you should be more worried about health, temperament, and finding a good and responsible breeder who knows what's what.", we are trying to follow it but it seems really hard to shop breeders right now.
 

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Scarlet was beauty, a virtual twin to our Sydnee, everyone called her red dog. Our Zoey was blonde, beautiful, fast runner she used taunt her pals playing chase then hit another gear and gone. Her nickname was Golden Missile. You may think I’m crazy but her nose would change colors during the year. Black and then it would get sort of mottled with brown. I used to think it was a Summer Winter thing.
 

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Kate
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Is there something incorrect about the black vs brown skinned?
You are talking about pigment. Not necessary skin color in general.

And you are talking about a breed that technically should have good pigment (ie black eye rims, black nose, black lips). Faded, brown, or pink noses are undesirable and a lot of breeders and pet owners are pretty unhappy when the black fades and never comes back.

Regarding general breed standard: in Colorado, the breed seems to be almost dividing into breeders for cream or white golden retrievers that we haven't seen demonstrate the same athleticism and drive as the darker colored goldens. While no dog will be exactly like her, we want a dog more like her than the blonde couch retrievers.
Has nothing to do with breed standard.

And color has nothing to do with energy levels of dogs.

What you are describing has everything to do with the PURPOSE of the dogs being bred. Or as the case may be, deliberate choices made by the breeders based on the types of homes they are breeding for.

The golden retriever is a sporting breed.

What this means is this should be a relatively muscular, strong, active, and happy to be doing stuff breed. But because it's a "gentleman's hunting dog" many breeders have inferred that to mean that this is a dog that spends time with his people at leisure.

That does not mean this is a couch breed or a "nana breed" or one that could anyway be compared to St. Bernard or Newfs.

If you are weak and lazy and have a postage stamp sized yard - this might not be the right breed for you.

Many people want a big dog as a status symbol (which is stupid).... but they also want something manageable for apartment living. While a golden retriever makes a good companion no matter where you live, you have more city people whining and complaining about the dogs dragging them everywhere and looking for more tools to control the dogs. These are dogs who have been bred generation after generation to work with their owners and cover a lot of ground quickly in fields or lakes. In the home, this is a breed that will get up and be ready to go at a moment's notice - but is also happy being underfoot and very close to their people.



Scarlet was longer, leaner, more athletic, and darker in color. In terms of temperament, she had more drive to retrieve, more willfulness, and strong attachment to her pack (people and dog friends). She was generally without interest in stranger's dogs or strangers. Thus far, the best we've been able to figure out is that a field line might be better for us than a non-field line. Not all field breeders sell to non-hunting homes that might compete but haven't previously.
Willfulness and standoffishness are two traits that should not be found in golden retrievers.
 

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Our boy is very light colored. His eye rims and his lips are jet black and his nose is dark dark dark in the spring/summer but does lighten up in the winter. He is a blend of American and European lines, not an “English cream”..... and he is NOT a couch potato by any means. He goes and goes and goes when we are outside hiking, walking, playing. This dog swims the entire day when we are at my lake house and we’ll have to take him out of the water and leash him to get him to take a breather for 30 minutes. But when we are at home he is mellow and will chill out and nap if we are hanging out and working. All this to say that I do NOT think color has any influence on energy level. You’d have to take into account temperament and certain lines to get a guess for temperament of any given litter.

Most reputable breeders will breed to the standard which calls for good pigment, so I think if you want to support reputable and ethical breeders you’ll just have to settle for darker pigment. I have seen more Goldens with faded brown noses then jet black noses. And generally I’ve noticed the more “red” the Golden is the more likely they are to have that brownish pigment vs black.
 

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She was a beautiful girl, black eyeliner or not! I am so sorry you lot her.
 

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Scarlet was beauty, a virtual twin to our Sydnee, everyone called her red dog. Our Zoey was blonde, beautiful, fast runner she used taunt her pals playing chase then hit another gear and gone. Her nickname was Golden Missile. You may think I’m crazy but her nose would change colors during the year. Black and then it would get sort of mottled with brown. I used to think it was a Summer Winter thing.
It's been called snow nose because the pigment lightens in the winter and darkens in the summer. There is speculation it has to do with less sunlight in the winter, but I have no proof of that.
 

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Hi guys,

I lost my beautiful beloved rescued (1 yo) golden retriever Scarlet at age 12.3 about a month ago.

I'm digging in on finding a breeder to fit what we want on another thread and have been busily digging into information and breeder. In between grieving over her death and growling over the likelihood that puppies at reputable breeders are likely unavailable until Spring 2021, I think I've learned that one of my favorite unique traits about my dearly departed golden might be, (fake horror) a breed disqualifying trait!

I think my girl was 'brown-skinned' rather than 'black-skinned'. She had a pale nose and no black eye rims. I've attached a photo of her at age ~4.

(also for haha stories: Buy house with sunroom with fountain. Acquire rescue golden retriever. Find out that goldens think the best thing to do first thing in the morning is get in the fountain. Drain fountain because a pool inside the house is not an option).

Thoughts? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Also, now I know part of why I like part of the look of tollers ('brown-skinned').

Show dog she wasn't. Athlete she was.

One of the only articles I could find online about the phenomenon.
View attachment 874475
She is a beautiful girl. Was her pigment always liver colored, or did it lighten as she got older?
 
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