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Maegan
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559 Posts
Directly copied from the breed standard on the AKC website: "Untrimmed natural ruff on neck, moderate feathering on back of forelegs and on underbody; heavier feathering on front of neck, back of thighs and underside of tail." This wording would not be in the standard if it interfered with the dog's job. When a dog is crashing through underbrush to get a bird, the heavier feathering on the front of the neck will protect the dog from said underbrush. Having seen him up close and in person, Daniel is really a very moderate dog (according to my definition of moderate, which does not mean small) in size, bone, and coat. He's pretty much right down the middle in height, he's not fluffy, and he has a wonderful temperament. His coat is the correct texture as well and you'd easily be able to remove burrs or sticks that got caught in while working (which he does).
 

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Super Moderator
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Denver is constantly in and out of brush. 9/10 times nothing sticks to him. There are a couple things that stick, big burdocks tend to grab onto his feathers & tail, but I can grab them and they slide right out. There are other kinds of burs that are a real pain to get out I think they’re called beggar ticks, and he once ran through a bush of them and they were ALL over his tail. That required me spraying on some conditioner and brushing them out. He is not heavily coated at all, but he is also only 19 months so he’ll continue to grow coat.
 

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Kate
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21,206 Posts
Fwiw.... I will remove this picture in a few minutes because the dog is not mine but belongs to one of my Bertie's breeders (the dog's mom is Bertie's half sister).

3 year old CH dog. He's one of those who I really love and have since he was a baby pup being shown by his breeder owner. The amount of bib and all over coat that he has is what I think is correct for the breed and isn't weirdly sculpted. I can see.

Bit of comment that will remain after I remove the picture after a few minutes - the reason why you do not see multiple titles on CH dogs is not necessarily all about the dogs not being "intelligent". It has to do with the owners.

This dog's owner has put higher level obedience titles on her dogs and she is very interested in lower level field titles as well. However many do not share her interest or abilities. And in her case, she has said that she does not have the time to go to classes (and knowing her day job, I believe it!) Many owners spend the money to send the dogs out with a handler who does all the training, grooming, and showing. Meanwhile, they have day jobs + have a lot of other stuff they are focused on. They get CH titles on the dogs and for them that's what matters.
 

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Maegan
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559 Posts
And I absolutely agree with you about it being what the owners are interested in/have time for. I'm super interested in Rally and Obedience, so those are the titles my dogs will get. And if I ever learn how to field train, they will get lower level field titles too. But I can tell you, Eevee's coat is never going to hold her back from working or hinder her performance (I actually wish she had more, but it will come, she's only 14 months). She's an athlete AND a show dog.
 

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the party's crashing us
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Ok just a few thoughts...
Please know that Karen, Daniel's handler, is barely 5 feet tall ----- so if you think Daniel looks big....well...size is relative!! He is a pretty moderately sized dog, have seen him up close in person.

Coat : "DON'T GET ME STARTED"

I firmly believe that MANY show breeders select for WAY TOO MUCH COAT because it looks fancy in the show ring, meanwhile the other nine puppies end up as fat hairy pets that need to be shaved. Completely incorrect. I hate these coats!!!! They are ridiculous and pointless.

That said, a correct coat on a golden serves a VERY good purpose...I've seen this first hand in my recent foray into working dogs at a local hunting preserve during the winter.
Luckily the place has no burrs or sandspurs but it is full of dried up raspberry brambles...EVERYWHERE.

When I run my goldens in it, they might break off the raspberry branches, which are relatively easily pulled off their coat, otherwise they get through the brush unscathed.
When I run my BF's black Labrador through the same ground...his face, neck, chest and the front of his legs are embedded with raspberry thorns, he is bleeding from cuts, and after much of it he's running around those patches of cover to avoid it.
The golden's thicker coat does not allow the brambles near the dog's skin.
Goldens were originally created for mainly upland retrieving both fowl and rabbit, they were not water specialists like the Labrador.

Also a note about color....
Migratory birds have EXCELLENT vision. They fly in above their intended resting area and quite literally scope it out before landing. Any hunter knows that camouflage is important...any white or off color will flare birds away. This is why most hunting dogs of flying, migratory birds (ducks & geese) are NEUTRAL COLORED.....the buff colored golden, the brown chessie, the black or brown Labrador, the liver Boykin, the reddish toller. They blend in with their surroundings. (Think about it....sporting dogs who hunt hiding ground birds...pheasant, quail, etc...the bird hides in cover and does not see the dog before it's too late...these dogs have all manner of white markings...pointers, English setters, most spaniels, the continental breeds...the birds they hunt are not scared off by their coloration and it's easier for the hunter to see them if they have some white on them!) Another facet to this point is that only retrievers are NON-SLIP hunters...meaning...they are STEADY = they stay with the hunter, at his side, until released to retrieve the bird. The hunter is not following him, it is not imperative that the hunter easily see the dog in thick cover as he does his job, because he will be back soon. Unlike the upland hunting dogs who range by themselves to locate birds and the hunter follows them.

Having thought about all that...tell me again why we should not penalize "WHITE" Goldens???? They are totally inappropriate to the original, and current, purpose of the breed. While overall structure and type should be weighted more heavily, if two dogs of equal merit are separated only by color...the pale cream dog should be penalized. Just my opinion but it is one that comes with justification!
 

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Kate
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21,206 Posts
Very awesome post Anney<:

Hope things are opening up for you guys for training grounds!!!

I always assumed that the pointers and setters have some white on them so the hunter doesn't shoot them since they won't be at the hunter's side like retrievers would be.....
 
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