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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Let me first say that having 2 pups was NOT planned. Our female was our planned dog and the male 3 mo later was honestly that we were the best alternative to a potentially bad situation. So we have 2 only 3 months apart.

Kye is much more high drive, always on the move, into everything, a wonder at class though getting her to repete things until mastered is a trial and always into trouble. Coop is 180 the other way. Laid back, plays hard, but very content to lay around. Learns things slower, but will repete forever as long as a treat is involved. Kind of a "Which Way did it go" guy. Would say that if only one dog, each would be considered normal, but totally different dogs.

Coop is clingy with Kye and wants her always near. We walk seperately, classes different on different days and he is fine with this, but let Kye be out of site at home and he is hunting for her. Kye could care less and always looking for the next thing to do. She is not bothered if Coop is away for the day.

Question is, knowing we have two, is Coop's attachment to Kye normal and if not, what suggestions do you have for a solution to prevent problems. Kye is progressing in training to the point of long retrieves and hopefully hunting since we are more country folk. Coop is not, though we are starting to introduce more active training. He does well, but if Kye is out of site all is lost. Found better to take the dogs to the field alone so Kye can progress. Coop may just be a porch guy, but don't want him to have a nervous breakdown if Kye is not with him. Will he mature past this attachment?

Thank you for any help.

Again, I know that having 2 pups is not the best but it is what we have and are working hard to find his niche.
 
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Tracer, Rumor & Cady
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How is his attachment to you if she is out of sight (but still in the house)?
Will he gladly wag his tail, play, enjoy belly rubs, offer tricks sits, downs etc...and enjoy the opportunity to be your sole focus or is he so preoccupied with knowing where she is that he can not focus on you at all?
 

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I am a complete novice here but based on all you have described it sounds to me like Kye being the high drive and seemingly more confident dog appears the more dominent dog in Coops eyes and therefore the one who will look after him and the one he should follow and shadow under. Kye was there first and probably the one to show Coop the ropes and set the boundaries so to Coop maybe she is his leader?By your description of Coop I would doubt he would be an outgoing dog anyway so I wonder what harm wanting the company of Kye there is, I know many coupled dogs who adore each other as do humans and apart from worrying what will happen when one of them dies can you spend their life working round that? It sounds as if they have a lot of individual attention which is great and unless Kye doesnt like Coop wanting to be with her what are your biggest worries about this relationship?
 

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I am curious about answers to your question Deber. While I have no pups at this time, we're possibly getting a 1 year old and then would also like to get a pup when a litter becomes available. But I've only ever had one Golden at a time and not sure how 2 would work for me. Also, our inclination would be to have 2 males, so also wondering if that would make a difference in how they bond/interact.
 

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Tracer, Rumor & Cady
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Sadly it can become a big problem..one where the dependent dog is a nervous wreck..panting & pacing & whining whenever the partnered dog is out of sight.
Their dependency is heartbreaking to watch because you know that they are not fully comfortable and confident in their own skin. Not fully the dog that they were meant to be.

Can you keep them separated within your own home - no playing together, eating together, peeing/pooping together or sleeping together...essentially help him learn to live separately for about 6 months? If not, can you place one or the other for 6 months?
 
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I totally agree with Liberty,ME. This is exactly why I have never sold littermates to anyone. However, I happen to own 2 littermates and 2 that are essentially littermates(born the same time, but different mothers). I think part of the reason they are not co dependent or just plain dependent is that they were all born here. So they have really never had to look to one another for support. Another reason is that all of them live in a multiple dog household and all have been raised right with their mothers. And lastly, the girls were all shown in conformation as early as they could be (6 months), so the boys learned to live without them for a week or a weekend. It's a lot more work, but you should make an effort to do separate things with them.. walk them separately, train them separately.... The trainer I work with was always concerned when I started adding on dogs, that they would become bonded to each other before they were bonded to me. So when I got golden #2, it was convenient to separate her from Golden #1 due to having to housetrain Golden #2! I am now up to Golden #9!!!! I think it would help to take Coop to a good training class to work on bonding him to you.
I have a client with 6 year old littermate Springers that just go nuts if they are separated...their owner never made the effort to do separate things with them. I understand you didn't plan things this way, so I am not criticizing. I understand that you are trying to do the best with the situation.
 
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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #8
Honestly we didn't consider it anything but a younger pup looking up to the older one until Kye was gone to the farm for a week and Coop was left at home with me. He seems fine and will play but he paces and would keep searching for her in the house and yard. He would only fully relax when he couldn't find her and would just give up, but ate well and would play. When Kye was gone I walked him farther we worked on basic and play much longer and had a student come play with him at lunchtime, but his constant searching really made me feel bad for him.

I don't want to make a big thing of this but curious if this was normal and could escalate to a problem. They will always be a pair, so hoping this is normal and Coop as a babe will get passed this along with the fear stages he is coming into and going out of.

Really no way to seperate them more than we do. My little house isnt big enough to seperate the dogs during the day. (very little!) So unless I put one outside and one inside (don't like to let my dogs with full yard freedom unless we are home - we live on a corner lot) they are together when we are at work.

YippieKya, honestly having 2 puppies has worked really well, all things considering. Having 2 means during the sharky times they chewed on each other more than us. Kye pushes Coop to learn more and motivates him to do things that are more of a challenge to him. She helps him over his crazy fear stages (she never had them).
We wanted 2 goldens, and tried rescue first, but this did not pan out for us. I think the ideal would be to have one at least a year older than the other for 2 reasons for us. First is that each dog would have more one on one time, and secondly when they are old you wouldn't lose them both together. I try not to think on this!

But with the forum's help trying to do the best we can do.
 

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YippieKya, I would never recommend getting two pups at the same time... for all of the reasons mentioned above, not the least of which is them becoming geriatric together. I do think they do less biting with their humans when they are in pairs because they have each other to gnaw on...but for me that isn't reason enough! My first 3 goldens were all spaced 5 years apart.. and I lost one every 5 years...
 

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Idid two together, almost 10 yrs. ago, they were 6-7wks. apart in age, they don't seem too attached to each other, but would not do again.
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #11
Know with my show yorkies, going to shows one on one bonded them really tight with me and they dropped their dependence on the other dogs. But we don't show the goldens, so thinking of taking a short vacation and Coop and I go to the farm alone. Think this would help if we could repete this? Hubby take him without Kye then I do it? Not quite the same as a hotel room with strange dogs at every turn, but about the closest we could do. Think that even spaced time apart might help?

Thanks to all for not jumping on me for having 2 together, really the most wonderful, but challenging task of my life to be honest & having 2 pups is sure not for the lazy or faint of heart. I can see easily why a breeder would not want to sell siblings to anyone!! I laugh much more than I used to, I use a schedule so time is spent well, but think we all do this. Just want Coop to enjoy himself with or without Kye.
 

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I believe that every effort you make to separate them and do separate things with them will only help in the long run.
 
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Tracer, Rumor & Cady
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When they are alone together during the day.. could you crate separately in different rooms?
Can you practice very long downs away from Kye?
Or work on crate games where he is actively looking to work further and further away from you (and Kye)?
any activities where he is actively, frequently & positively reinforced for being separated from her?
 
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Tracer, Rumor & Cady
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IMHO...one or two vacations away from Kye wont cut it....
Again just my opinion...but 5 months is a critical developmental time...it is the natural time when puppies cut from their mothers and become more and more independent. This is 'the' time to make a major shift that could really, really make a big difference in his life.
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #16
No LibertyMe to most all of this! Didn't even cross my mind. We have crates in the den, but doors are left open now and den is gated from rest of the house. I can crate Coop or Kye at various times to start the seperation and honestly can move a crate outside to the run area on weekends where he or Kye can stay outside, but be safe for prolonged periods. Great ideas!

Think this is the prime age to try to seperate this attachment before he matures and it gets out of hand. Also have a friend who might consider watching one of the two at various times. She has an older lab that I watch for her on occassion. Perhaps putting Coop with a strange dog for a week off and on would break this attachment to Kye. I could leave him in the mornings and pick him up each day also, but new invironment, different dog to be with. Don't know but willing to try.

Thank you to each for your help and great suggestions. Feel if we get a foothold on this now we will be glad in the future.
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #17
Agree about the age time line right now Coop is like a sponge and why I decided to ask this now instead of just waiting it out. Will start re-doing the house tonight and call my friend this morning. Surely we can immediately make some drastic changes. I just don't have a way to seperate him for months, but possibly everyday during the work hours can start us in the right direction & will talk to our class trainer on any help he can think of.
 

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Tracer, Rumor & Cady
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as much as I am all for separating...Im not sure I would go as far as crating out doors ...perhaps crate one indoors and take the other on a long walk or crate one in the den and gate off the den and have the other loose in the house...
 

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luverofpeanuts
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for having 2 together, really the most wonderful, but challenging task of my life to be honest & having 2 pups is sure not for the lazy or faint of heart. I can see easily why a breeder would not want to sell siblings to anyone!! I laugh much more than I used to, I use a schedule so time is spent well, but think we all do this. Just want Coop to enjoy himself with or without Kye.
Well said, and I think you're doing all the right things. It sounds to me like you are doing a great job of doing all you can to help Coop establish some comfort level being seperated from Kye. I think for the immediate time frame, crating in separate rooms is a simple and good thing to do.

And kudos to you for taking on the challenge, even though it was not planned or intended. I get the impression you've fixed a situation, at the expense of putting yourself in a more complex situation.
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you for saying such, it is done with love and knowing at our age these will be the last dogs we have, I want to do my best to have good mannered and allround good buddies.

But we couldn't make it without this crew here. I would have been lost. Means a lot to have people to hash out ideas with, then work on at home, they tell you their honest opinions and I appreciate this. Know we didn't hit some of the pittfalls others hit, because I could come here, read and ask questions. Good Place, Good People.
 
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