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Kye & Coops Mom
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In our Goldens, do we see a wide variety of body styles, body structures? Can Blocky be used to describe more than their head?

Classes just resumed after an 7 wk off time. Pups are all 6'ish mo old. There are 2 other goldens (males) in our class, same ones from 1st class. Their boys are taller, coats are short, but growing, lanky and haven't changed much. Coop has had a lot of change. He is a little shorter, but much larger shoulders, head, chest, more thick hair, all 3 pups weigh within a few pounds of the same. Coop looks so different from his friends. Everyone commented! Men made comments about his big blocky head and big shoulders? Made me wonder if this is normal and just another body style in our goldens? I know his heavier coat makes him look bigger, but he IS broader, much more stocky than his classmates.

Normal? Is shorter, stockier just another body style in our breed? He is 6 mo 1 wk and weighs 54 lbs. Though Coop is our 4th golden it has been over 20 yrs since the death of our last. Not worried, but don't know enough about the various styles of our boys to know how to answer people. In my eyes he is beautiful, but I see through the eyes of a Momma.

Can you more knowledgeable ones teach me more of the normal body builds we see in our goldens?
 
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how about some photos of him :) :)
 
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According to both the American and English KC breed standard Deber the description "blocky" is not used to describe either the head or body of a golden. Your pup may be closer to the breed standard than a leggier, narrow chested pups with less "body" Pups do change a lot as they grow up, but at 6 months a basically sound structure (as per the breed standard) will be evident (or not).
I hope this helps and good luck with your showing interest.

AMERICAN KC BREED STANDARD FOR GOLDEN RETRIEVER

General Appearance
A symmetrical, powerful, active dog, sound and well put together, not clumsy nor long in the leg, displaying a kindly expression and possessing a personality that is eager, alert and self-confident. Primarily a hunting dog, he should be shown in hard working condition. Overall appearance, balance, gait and purpose to be given more emphasis than any of his component parts. Faults--Any departure from the described ideal shall be considered faulty to the degree to which it interferes with the breed’s purpose or is contrary to breed character.
Size, Proportion, Substance
Males 23-24 inches in height at withers; females 21½-22½ inches. Dogs up to one inch above or below standard size should be proportionately penalized. Deviation in height of more than one inch from the standard shall disqualify. Length from breastbone to point of buttocks slightly greater than height at withers in ratio of 12:11. Weight for dogs 65-75 pounds; bitches 55-65 pounds.
Head
Broad in skull, slightly arched laterally and longitudinally without prominence of frontal bones (forehead) or occipital bones. Stop well defined but not abrupt. Foreface deep and wide, nearly as long as skull. Muzzle straight in profile, blending smooth and strongly into skull; when viewed in profile or from above, slightly deeper and wider at stop than at tip. No heaviness in flews. Removal of whiskers is permitted but not preferred. Eyes friendly and intelligent in expression, medium large with dark, close-fitting rims, set well apart and reasonably deep in sockets. Color preferably dark brown; medium brown acceptable. Slant eyes and narrow, triangular eyes detract from correct expression and are to be faulted. No white or haw visible when looking straight ahead. Dogs showing evidence of functional abnormality of eyelids or eyelashes (such as, but not limited to, trichiasis, entropion, ectropion, or distichiasis) are to be excused from the ring. Ears rather short with front edge attached well behind and just above the eye and falling close to cheek. When pulled forward, tip of ear should just cover the eye. Low, hound-like ear set to be faulted. Nose black or brownish black, though fading to a lighter shade in cold weather not serious. Pink nose or one seriously lacking in pigmentation to be faulted. Teeth scissors bite, in which the outer side of the lower incisors touches the inner side of the upper incisors. Undershot or overshot bite is a disqualification. Misalignment of teeth (irregular placement of incisors) or a level bite (incisors meet each other edge to edge) is undesirable, but not to be confused with undershot or overshot. Full dentition. Obvious gaps are serious faults.
Neck, Topline, Body
Neck medium long, merging gradually into well laid back shoulders, giving sturdy, muscular appearance. No throatiness. Backline strong and level from withers to slightly sloping croup, whether standing or moving. Sloping backline, roach or sway back, flat or steep croup to be faulted. Body well balanced, short coupled, deep through the chest. Chest between forelegs at least as wide as a man’s closed hand including thumb, with well developed forechest. Brisket extends to elbow. Ribs long and well sprung but not barrel shaped, extending well towards hindquarters. Loin short, muscular, wide and deep, with very little tuck-up. Slab-sidedness, narrow chest, lack of depth in brisket, excessive tuck-up to be faulted. Tail well set on, thick and muscular at the base, following the natural line of the croup. Tail bones extend to, but not below, the point of hock. Carried with merry action, level or with some moderate upward curve; never curled over back nor between legs.
Forequarters
Muscular, well coordinated with hindquarters and capable of free movement. Shoulder blades long and well laid back with upper tips fairly close together at withers. Upper arms appear about the same length as the blades, setting the elbows back beneath the upper tip of the blades, close to the ribs without looseness. Legs, viewed from the front, straight with good bone, but not to the point of coarseness. Pasterns short and strong, sloping slightly with no suggestion of weakness. Dewclaws on forelegs may be removed, but are normally left on. Feet medium size, round, compact, and well knuckled, with thick pads. Excess hair may be trimmed to show natural size and contour. Splayed or hare feet to be faulted.
Hindquarters
Broad and strongly muscled. Profile of croup slopes slightly; the pelvic bone slopes at a slightly greater angle (approximately 30 degrees from horizontal). In a natural stance, the femur joins the pelvis at approximately a 90-degree angle; stifles well bent; hocks well let down with short, strong rear pasterns. Feet as in front. Legs straight when viewed from rear. Cow-hocks, spread hocks, and sickle hocks to be faulted.
Coat
Dense and water-repellent with good undercoat. Outer coat firm and resilient, neither coarse nor silky, lying close to body; may be straight or wavy. Untrimmed natural ruff; moderate feathering on back of forelegs and on underbody; heavier feathering on front of neck, back of thighs and underside of tail. Coat on head, paws, and front of legs is short and even. Excessive length, open coats, and limp, soft coats are very undesirable. Feet may be trimmed and stray hairs neatened, but the natural appearance of coat or outline should not be altered by cutting or clipping.
Color
Rich, lustrous golden of various shades. Feathering may be lighter than rest of coat. With the exception of graying or whitening of face or body due to age, any white marking, other than a few white hairs on the chest, should be penalized according to its extent. Allowable light shadings are not to be confused with white markings. Predominant body color which is either extremely pale or extremely dark is undesirable. Some latitude should be given to the light puppy whose coloring shows promise of deepening with maturity. Any noticeable area of black or other off-color hair is a serious fault.
Gait
When trotting, gait is free, smooth, powerful and well coordinated, showing good reach. Viewed from any position, legs turn neither in nor out, nor do feet cross or interfere with each other. As speed increases, feet tend to converge toward center line of balance. It is recommended that dogs be shown on a loose lead to reflect true gait.
Temperament
Friendly, reliable, and trustworthy. Quarrelsomeness or hostility towards other dogs or people in normal situations, or an unwarranted show of timidity or nervousness, is not in keeping with Golden Retriever character. Such actions should be penalized according to their significance.
Disqualifications
Deviation in height of more than one inch from standard either way.
Undershot or overshot bite.
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #4
Thought this might be the next step and as soon as we can see some sunshine I will blow the dust off my camera and try. Hope this will be good enough without other pictures to show you examples of what are the body styles in his class.

Their color sets them apart enough, I would like to be able to speak about them without sounding like an idiot! I know his syle is normal, just don't know how to describe to those who ask.
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #5
Aerolor thanks for this! Coop will not be shown, though I did get him in the 3-6 mo Int'l national show and he did well (got his titles). He is not from showing lines and honestly only took him for the Judges evaluation. He is a pet only and will be neutered and loved. He is just not the lanky style he was, he is solid and broader. I know there must be correct words to use to describe, but I don't know them. I don't want to use fat, horse, huskier, square chia-pet! Know there are better words to describe his body style.
 

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how about "correct" ! ! ! !
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Barb, may I package you and stuff you in my pocket??

Megora this could also be very true! Know lines make a difference but expected Coop to continue along with his classmates in looks. Now in less than 2 mo., he is different, but looks like things all match. Makes me wonder what he will look like as a mature adult.

Perhaps it is the rain we have gotten/still getting, just thinking on this a lot this morning (Penny'sMom Moment! Ha!) and wondered of the differences in body types for our dogs and how they are described in more correct terms.

Thank you for your imput and allowing me to daydream on such a rainy day.
 
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I think that is normal that he looks stocky or blocky. Like somebody said, he is closer to the golden standard than the tall, leggy, narrowchested goldens.
My goldens have always been sturdy, powerful block heads, lol. Toby, who I have now, is a bit shorter than the previous golden, but well within golden standards. So, I would not worry about it. And if your pup has more fur, good for him.
My sister had a big, leggy golden and he did not have the typical water resistant undercoat. He had a puny coat actually, just one layer. I think you should be happy about the way your pup is.
 

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I have been watching alot of youtube golden retriever conformation shows and the body of the golden is suppose to be blocky. The leg up to the elbow should be the same lenght as the body top to stomach. Their heads are to be blocky one judge said they should solid study looking dogs with deep chests.
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #12
Coops comes from imported Dad, Mom - Am. Golden. His Dads lines have more conformation than hunting. Mom's side is pet with few titles. Coop is definately more of the conformation build than compared with my RB hunting line boy.

Non of the males are neutered. Just 3 different body styles. To me one is more field, one - normal - med build?? & Coop is more compact-thicker. All are goldens through and through. How do you describe these body types? All three are early 50 lbs in weight. Just visually so different.
 

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Shoregold
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Look up the AKC standard which discribes a correct golden. This is not for general reading. Read line by line for each part. There is nothing in the standard that says blocky, show or field type. A correct golden is listed for any venue you are seaking.

I was at a match years ago and I was up against a Chesapeake Bay Retriever for best in match which the Chesapeake took. Later that day there was a dicussion with some of the provisional judges. Thankful for the opportunity as we all know you don't get many opportunities to talk to the judges. They were using my girl as a way to discribe some of the standard discriptions. They picked apart ear set, eyes, muzzle, angulation, height, etc. Later my judge said to me that he will never judge the same. He said he did not pick my Bitch as she was to masculine. After the review he realized that there is nothing in the standard that states a golden should be discribed in his preferrence.
 

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Kate
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I was at a match years ago and I was up against a Chesapeake Bay Retriever for best in match which the Chesapeake took. Later that day there was a dicussion with some of the provisional judges. Thankful for the opportunity as we all know you don't get many opportunities to talk to the judges. They were using my girl as a way to discribe some of the standard discriptions. They picked apart ear set, eyes, muzzle, angulation, height, etc. Later my judge said to me that he will never judge the same. He said he did not pick my Bitch as she was to masculine. After the review he realized that there is nothing in the standard that states a golden should be discribed in his preferrence.
But don't judges go by personal opinion/impression when they pick one dog over another? I mean you can pick apart dogs who have faults, but if you have dogs who are equally good doesn't it come down to what the judge feels about a big blocky head or coloring or the way X dog stands out to them?
 

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Jack has always been stockyer than other Goldens. Like you he's no show dog( nor am I LOL) but a pet. Can't wait to see some pics!!
 

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Kye & Coops Mom
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Discussion Starter #16
Capt'n Jack, sun is peeking out so perhaps I can get some pictures when home from work.

Love this discussion and hearing about the types! There is so much to learn and hope to get to more shows just so I can see instead of seeing pictures of others dogs.

Reading the standards, you are right in that the words they use are not gender nor body style specific. Many areas to be different but be in standard, but I will read this slowly over again when get home. So a lot must be interpeted by the Judges and would/could take a lot of years to get the "eye" for what they like the best??
 

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While that is true, it does say
"...(not) long in leg...."
"...broad in skull..."
"...stop well defined..."
"...foreface deep and wide..."
"...neck....giving sturdy, muscular appearance..."
"...body...short coupled....chest ...at least as wide as a man's closed hand including thumb, with well developed forechest...loin short, muscular, wide and deep...."
"...hindquarters....broad and strongly muscled..."

That doesn't say blocky, show, or field type but it does describe a certain body style.


Look up the AKC standard which discribes a correct golden. This is not for general reading. Read line by line for each part. There is nothing in the standard that says blocky, show or field type. A correct golden is listed for any venue you are seaking.

QUOTE]
 

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Love this discussion and hearing about the types! There is so much to learn and hope to get to more shows just so I can see instead of seeing pictures of others dogs.

Reading the standards, you are right in that the words they use are not gender nor body style specific. Many areas to be different but be in standard, but I will read this slowly over again when get home. So a lot must be interpeted by the Judges and would/could take a lot of years to get the "eye" for what they like the best??

Yes, it takes time as a fancier and a judge to develop this eye. The wording does leave room for some interpretation which is why we see a variety of styles in Goldens that still have type. (There are also dogs poorly bred, with so little consideration for the nuances of breed type as to completely lack breed type.) Type is what makes a Golden a Golden. (Sorry, the correct use of style vs. type is a pet peeve of mine!)

If you want to get a handle on some of these nuances, I always recommend getting hold of a copy of the Blue Book, written by Marcia Schler. You can get it through the GRCA store. A Study of the Golden Retriever

Another good illustrated breed standard is the one prepared by the GRCC. http://www.grcc.net/files/club_documents/GRCCIllustratedBreedStandard.pdf
 

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Shoregold
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But don't judges go by personal opinion/impression when they pick one dog over another? I mean you can pick apart dogs who have faults, but if you have dogs who are equally good doesn't it come down to what the judge feels about a big blocky head or coloring or the way X dog stands out to them?

Sure if two dogs show equal in standard it would come down to opinion. Some judges may search for a flaw in their preference such as movement, pigment, even handler to eliminate the dog. As wrong as it is this judge did confess he did not follow the standard but put her in a catorgy (masculine). He said he would never judge the same. There are some good ones out there and really study what represents the standard discription. There is no such thing as the perfect dog and even as a breeders we have different opinions what looks better. Their is only one standard that make them a golden and our goals should to be to strive for the perfect golden retriever.
 

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But don't judges go by personal opinion/impression when they pick one dog over another? I mean you can pick apart dogs who have faults, but if you have dogs who are equally good doesn't it come down to what the judge feels about a big blocky head or coloring or the way X dog stands out to them?
I don't show, but it is my understanding that everybody interprets the standard differently, so when a breeding is defining her lines' look, it is the way she interprets the standard.

I have also read that a judge should never judge the dogs against each other, but judge each dog separately according to the standard. Not sure if that is how it is really done.
 
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