[diane0905]

I’m just having fun training and learning from my dog. I’m not starting each of these things in novice level thinking about conquering the beast/scaling a ladder. I do plan to reach each goal I set it in my head as long as we are both having fun.

 

[Megora]

I’m just having fun training and learning from my dog. I’m not starting each of these things in novice level thinking about conquering the beast/scaling a ladder. I do plan to reach each goal I set it in my head as long as we are both having fun.

Do you understand the ladder though?

It applies to people who are just starting out.

It might feel like you are taking very tiny steps or not getting far, but unless you are super long legged and super gifted by nature.... You are not going to be able to get off the ground if you are trying to climb that ladder on the right and aiming for huge goals right from the start.

In your case, my case, many of us.... that would be like you got this dog who you think is fantastic and expect to take you to big places. So you take each of the sports you participate in and say you are aiming for MH, MACH, and OTCH or nothing. And some people can do it, but a lot of people I know fall short because they set goals so high that it wore them out trying to get there and they weren't able to enjoy small victories along the way. As well, same thing with some people who keep all their efforts separate and it involves dropping one thing to do the next....

That big ladder with many rungs close together might seem like a lot, but it will keep you encouraged and engaged if you have small goals that can be easily achieved and put you in good footing to continue climbing higher. Many of the different sports may be on the same ladder, but fit well together based on the training plans, etc.

To me that ladder pic is inspirational and hopeful.

I think I shared with you privately before how irritated I was with people who literally and constantly pooped on the small titles you listed as hoping to get. That's many things, but especially is discouraging to people who keep all of the sports going.

 

[diane0905]

Yes, I understand the ladder. I remember when I was hiking coast to coast across England, walking up a steep incline somewhere along the way. An older farm man came up as I was halfway up an interminable hill and told me to take small steps. Later on the trip about halfway through I met an 80 year old lady who had walked the C2C (for us it was 206 miles!) three times in the last decade. She told me to just think about taking the next step and make sure I do each time.

 

[diane0905]

I talked to one of my instructors today about this after class and she said by all means to let Logan do his BN first and that it probably is beneficial to get them more ring ready. She said she just didn’t with hers because, at the time, she didn’t think she would do great with the sit and stay as she walked the perimeter of the room. She said she thought in some ways parts of the BN are harder than the CD. Anyway, that’s what I’ll do. They are going to take a longer holiday break after this session, but she said if I wanted we could do a private and she would set up the BN course for us to practice.

 

[xRoan]

The issue we're struggling with, right now, is that we can't recreate the trial enviroment... Colt ROCKS practice, but the second we step onto the competition floor him (and I!) melt in to a nervous puddle. Watching some videos back from agility this past weekend, the visiting is almost exclusively a stress response... He had run off even if I "yelled" (to be heard over the crowd and dogs in crates) simple commands, like 'hup' and 'here', 'tunnel', whatever. He thought I was upset that he did something wrong and took off. I doubt he'd be able to handle being in the ring for a BN with me ONLY giving one command per exercise.

 

[diane0905]

The issue we're struggling with, right now, is that we can't recreate the trial enviroment... Colt ROCKS practice, but the second we step onto the competition floor him (and I!) melt in to a nervous puddle. Watching some videos back from agility this past weekend, the visiting is almost exclusively a stress response... He had run off even if I "yelled" (to be heard over the crowd and dogs in crates) simple commands, like 'hup' and 'here', 'tunnel', whatever. He thought I was upset that he did something wrong and took off. I doubt he'd be able to handle being in the ring for a BN with me ONLY giving one command per exercise.

I don’t now how Logan will do with all the activity, but once I feel he’s ready we are going to give it a go. Do you train in a class setting with other people? Where we go they have train like you trial events and we’ll be able to start those after the holidays. I wish more people had that sort of thing. I’d love to try something like that for agility.

We just recently started getting other dogs to train around for our field training. I’m talking about field because we have our WC coming up this weekend. Since I signed up for it, Logan has had a couple of training sessions and was slightly off in both which he hasn’t been much. Then our trainer got COVID. Then Logan got a rash all over his belly and a hellacious looking blood red irritation on his testicles. He’s still on his second round of antibiotics for that and they are finally not looking like a hot mess/moist, but it’s been quite an ordeal. I figure we will go give it a go Saturday and see how that works out for us. 😂 I’m sure I will be a bit nervous being our first time and all.

He did very well in obedience class today. I thought he would be off due to all the medication and testicular discomfort 😬, but he didn’t try to mess with them any so they must finally not be bothering him.

 

[Megora]

The issue we're struggling with, right now, is that we can't recreate the trial enviroment... Colt ROCKS practice, but the second we step onto the competition floor him (and I!) melt in to a nervous puddle. Watching some videos back from agility this past weekend, the visiting is almost exclusively a stress response... He had run off even if I "yelled" (to be heard over the crowd and dogs in crates) simple commands, like 'hup' and 'here', 'tunnel', whatever. He thought I was upset that he did something wrong and took off. I doubt he'd be able to handle being in the ring for a BN with me ONLY giving one command per exercise.

Reading this, I believe you need to do 3 things.

1. Look for fun matches everywhere - obedience or agility, etc....
2. When you do enter trials - agility or obedience, go EARLY. Try to give your dog as much time as he needs to acclimate and settle in. It also is helpful to your own nerves. This will also give you the opportunity to meet other people and check around for ideas on where other people train and proof their dogs.
3. More obedience training. Including giving yourself 6-12 months to train prior to entering the next trial. That seems like a lot, but putting this in context....

Here in Michigan we have the "home trials" which for a lot of people means a huge opportunity to compete on the same floor/facilities where they train. That is 2 trials in Ann Arbor (2 locations outside AA), 1 in Flint, 1 in Lansing, and 1 in Warren which all offer obedience trials every couple weeks this time of the year. The owners of the facilities + clubs also tend to offer fun matches leading up to these trials where you literally will practice in the same ring/setup that will be used at the trials. It is a huge opportunity to take some degree of "unknown" and difficult out of showing. Otherwise, people go by memory as far as what the setup will be like from show site to show site, and they train for something as similar as possible - although it is not the same, since it's not the same floor, etc.

There's people who basically decided that this year is not their year to bring young dogs out into open. One person finished a CD at the golden national, but decided to go back to square one in training because she was not happy with how her dog worked. So she skipped the home trials this year and likely will bring her girlie out to the trials next Oct. That's 12 months, but worth the wait?

 

[green branch]

I showed him in BN one day and RN the second.

I have a question for people who are doing obedience and rally. In obedience, when you heel and stop, the dog is supposed to sit without being told. In rally, there are pairs of similar exercises where only difference between them is that in one you stop and the dog sit and in the other you just proceed without stoping. So, my question is if in rally, you tell or show the dog to sit is this causing a confusion in obedience? Is a solution to this not to give a sit command on a stop in rally? Thanks.

 

[Megora]

Is a solution to this not to give a sit command on a stop in rally?

Correct.

Train for your bigger goals.

 

[xRoan]

Colt auto-sits; in Rally, I just have to move fast enough to avoid it or give an alternate queue as per the sign.

 

[PalouseDogs]

I have a question for people who are doing obedience and rally. In obedience, when you heel and stop, the dog is supposed to sit without being told. In rally, there are pairs of similar exercises where only difference between them is that in one you stop and the dog sit and in the other you just proceed without stoping. So, my question is if in rally, you tell or show the dog to sit is this causing a confusion in obedience? Is a solution to this not to give a sit command on a stop in rally? Thanks.

It sounds like it would be a problem, but it's not. In Rally, you just start moving before pooch has a chance to sit. For the "auto-sit" your body language is a big cue in OB. (Shoulders go back, stride changes as you halt.) In OB, when you get to Utility, dog has to do a Moving Stand, in which the dog stops and handler keeps moving and the Signal exercise, in which you halt and the dog remains standing. You give a stand signal, but also, you stop more abruptly so the dog doesn't get the normal Halt and Sit body language.

In Rally, I also give verbal commands as well as body cues. Rally is so herky-jerky, start-stop that I think it really helps the dog to have both verbal and body language cues. If you're working on getting high heeling scores in OB, however, I've found it's best to keep Rally to a minimum until you accomplish your OB goals because Rally can cause your heeling to suffer. Not because of the talking, but because there's no rhythm to heeling in Rally.

 

[Megora]

In Rally, I also give verbal commands as well as body cues. Rally is so herky-jerky, start-stop that I think it really helps the dog to have both verbal and body language cues. If you're working on getting high heeling scores in OB, however, I've found it's best to keep Rally to a minimum until you accomplish your OB goals because Rally can cause your heeling to suffer. Not because of the talking, but because there's no rhythm to heeling in Rally.

There is actually some rhythm to heeling in rally... but if you have a small dog or a dog that's able to do very tight maneuvers. It's more a small dog sport. When you have a big dog breed like goldens, it's stutter steps all over the place which yes - messes up your heelwork.

People using verbals, body cues (the treat finger), etc... are going to struggle transitioning into regular obedience. Also, the dogs if not doing rally would never be trained with those same cues.

 

[diane0905]

More questions. Thank you in advance and Happy New Year to all! :


I’m looking at the Train Like You Trial dates and am wondering should I just sign Logan up for one slot on each date? Or is there any benefit to taking a break in time between slots and letting him practice BN more than once on each date?

Also, should I just sign up for BN if that’s what I’m planning on doing first, or is there benefit to (after trying the BN at Train Like You Trial) trying to practice Novice also?

 

[PalouseDogs]

I don't know what "Train like you Trial" is, but I'm guessing it's a type of fun match where there's a fake judge and they try to simulate trial conditions.

At most of the matches I've been to, there is a LOT of waiting around. If the time between slots is long, you and Logan might be bored and tired of waiting by the time your second slot rolls around. If the second run won't be a long wait, I'd do it, but base your strategy for the second run on the results of the first. Do the first as though it were a real trial. Identify the biggest issue you had. On the second run, work on that issue only and aim for success. Have contingency plans for whatever might go wrong in the first run.

For example,
If he moves or stands on the Sit for Exam: Enter the ring as though it were a real trial. Do a single leg of the heeling pattern. Praise as you move to the SFE location. Have him sit, but only take a step away. If he moves at the approach of the judge, say No, sit, repeat. Praise quietly as he sits. When he succeeds, give your reward marker (Yes or click or whatever) followed by the reward. If they allow rewards in the ring, give him a treat right after the RM or let him play tug or retrieve something, whatever your reward is. Leave the ring. That will be the end of your run.

In BN, I care about attitude more than ANYTHING else. Don't fuss about little things. No one will care what your BN score was, but starting his OB career with a good attitude is priceless. Have someone video and watch yourself to see where you might have lost connection with your dog. Unless you're are walking away from him, you should have eyes only for him the entire time in the ring. Don't look at the judge. Good luck. BN is a great intro class.

 

[ArkansasGold]

More questions. Thank you in advance and Happy New Year to all! :


I’m looking at the Train Like You Trial dates and am wondering should I just sign Logan up for one slot on each date? Or is there any benefit to taking a break in time between slots and letting him practice BN more than once on each date?

Also, should I just sign up for BN if that’s what I’m planning on doing first, or is there benefit to (after trying the BN at Train Like You Trial) trying to practice Novice also?

If you ever plan on doing two actual trials in one day, I would sign up for two runs in one day. It will be good information for you to have as to how you both react to sitting around all day in between runs. For me, Eevee actually did better on a two trial day when we did two conformation shows and two obedience trials in the same day. She didn't have time to get bored. LOL But when we just did two OB trials in the same day, we were both kinda down in the second trial and it didn't go nearly as well as the first.

I agree with Kelly's advice above as well. Treat the first one like a real trial. If they allow rewards in the ring, work on whatever didn't go well in the first one. You can also work on your jackpot concept if you use jackpots. It takes time to go from getting a lot of rewards to getting zero. So you can do a couple parts of the run, leave the ring for the reward. Then on the next run do one more part than the one before, leave, reward. Repeat the next time you go. I wish I had done more actual trial prep with Eevee before we did her CD.

 

[Megora]

So.... to me it sounds like a fun match.

Because there's not a lot of opportunity to do these (done only monthly over here, may be more rare elsewhere), you want to cover your bases and target the level class you want to enter in. <= Long schpeel for, if you intend to title in BN and CD this spring/summer... I would absolutely focus on getting enough practice at the CD level which is more difficult than BN. Meaning, I'd also want to be practicing my stand stays, off leash, finishes, etc.

If you can only do 1 entry - I'd do a regular novice run + ask if you can do the walk around the ring after your run instead of the sit stay get your leash.

If you can do 2 entries - do both a BN run and a CD run.

Fun matches are or can be two different things....

If you have a dog that's literally READY to compete, is competing, etc.... fun matches are for practice + seeing what you need to work on. Especially right after a long break.

If you have a dog in training.... then fun matches are both for the experience/training + seeing where your dog is. Particularly watching what you are still doing to help your dog (additional commands, handling, etc).

***I did fun match on Sat and Jovi was a straight run through like I was in a trial. Because he is competing in open, etc.

Rather than waste an entry on novice with Glee - we did an open run with him as well. This was because my hope is to jump right into open after he's got his CD - but also the open run more or less works on everything we need for novice on a more difficult scale. Glee has 1 CD leg at this time.

So formal run with Jovi. Glee, I did more handling + motivation things because he's still cleaning up. IE, drop on recall, he comes flying like a freight train, so I do a more emphatic drop signal + verbal (you cannot do both in ring) and tossed the treat back behind him. Ideally, I want him anticipating drop a little more and watching for a signal or verbal command.

^^^ I did a lot of circulatory patterns with that explanation. LOL.

Basic answer is enter both if you can.

If you can't - enter regular novice.



Also - we pre-enter matches here. So there isn't waiting around. You show up close to your assigned times and go. Most early sign ups, the penalty is you have to volunteer judge/steward for a time slot in order to sign up for another. If you hold off until after all spots are filled, it's possible to just show/go without working (but very few spots at that point).

 

[diane0905]

Thank you, everyone! I also had an email out to my instructor and she also said to do both to get the practice in for our CD. Good to know. It didn’t even strike me as a possibility until I was signing up and I thought surely it may help.

I just took this pretty photo of Logan, so I’ll share it here.

I aspire to have as upbeat an attitude as this sweet dog does.

 

[diane0905]

If you ever plan on doing two actual trials in one day, I would sign up for two runs in one day. It will be good information for you to have as to how you both react to sitting around all day in between runs. For me, Eevee actually did better on a two trial day when we did two conformation shows and two obedience trials in the same day. She didn't have time to get bored. LOL But when we just did two OB trials in the same day, we were both kinda down in the second trial and it didn't go nearly as well as the first.

I agree with Kelly's advice above as well. Treat the first one like a real trial. If they allow rewards in the ring, work on whatever didn't go well in the first one. You can also work on your jackpot concept if you use jackpots. It takes time to go from getting a lot of rewards to getting zero. So you can do a couple parts of the run, leave the ring for the reward. Then on the next run do one more part than the one before, leave, reward. Repeat the next time you go. I wish I had done more actual trial prep with Eevee before we did her CD.

Good point. I actually gained information as to this also when we were doing JH. I noticed in the four retrieves each day, Logan was definitely more amped up by the last one. In a way, it made it more exciting because my inner thoughts were “Don’t you do it!!” when I saw him get the mischievous glint in his eye. Lolol

 

[kjengold]

I just took this pretty photo of Logan, so I’ll share it here.

I aspire to have as upbeat an attitude as this sweet dog does.

Very handsome!

 

[diane0905]

Very handsome!

Thank you! I can’t get over how beautiful he is.