haha — we got started about a year and a half late due to COVID. Then I just desperately started signing up for what was available when it was. We’ve had some breaks in obedience also because our first school stopped giving classes and then there was a lapse before we found another.You are the busiest dog person ever.. I wish I had half your energy
Thank you. Very helpful! That’s a good point about getting the practice before going on to being scored for your CD.Basically the reason why your instructors asked this question is they are looking to see how to prep you and perhaps what to work on in the classes. I mean, probably?
I train for CD+ (classes and matches), but get a very green dog started with BN first. Why? Because I want high scores in regular novice when we have an opportunity to compete against the OTCH people for high in trial. A dog that's been in BN is going to be more ring proofed and experienced than a dog who is out in a ring first time ever with no treats, praise, etc... and owner who is flipping out because it's their first trial too.
Also many novice A dogs used to NQ because of off leash heeling. Basically the dog is not ready, very green, doesn't know what's going on, etc... I "think" that novice has improved because people are doing a more gradual approach with their young/green dogs.
I’m going to start train like you trial events in January. Those will be helpful. My school holds them, but has put them on break until then.We have ALL been that owner.
I don't know if this is helpful, but just the other day my obedience instructor said to do Rally first to get the dog ring ready, where you can talk to them and keep it positive and then go on to the CD.
Just curious, who do you train with? When I was active in obedience I used to go down to Connie Cleveland once a month for private lessons. I'm starting up in obedience again and so bummed she moved.
I wish I had trained with Connie. She left before I started at Dog Trainer’s Workshop. In the beginning I was there training with the people Connie Cleveland worked with there — Cat Perry, Annette Sizemore, and Karlene (can’t remember her last name.) They stopped offering the classes and Annette told me about Happy Dogs in Wellford (right outside of Spartanburg.) The instructors are Lou Ann McGahey and Paula Xan Cudd during the day. I think Annette and Lou Ann teach during the evenings. All very good instructors.
Beginner Novice.
I meant to also say you could join Obedience Road. That’s Connie’s online platform and she’s very interactive via new content — video instruction and webinars. She answers individual questions via videos also.
I meant to tell you my sister, Debbie, used to live in Ann Arbor and loved it. She said it’s such a beautiful area. She doesn’t like South Carolina summers. Lol It does get quite sweltering here.Basically the reason why your instructors asked this question is they are looking to see how to prep you and perhaps what to work on in the classes. I mean, probably?
I train for CD+ (classes and matches), but get a very green dog started with BN first. Why? Because I want high scores in regular novice when we have an opportunity to compete against the OTCH people for high in trial. A dog that's been in BN is going to be more ring proofed and experienced than a dog who is out in a ring first time ever with no treats, praise, etc... and owner who is flipping out because it's their first trial too.
Also many novice A dogs used to NQ because of off leash heeling. Basically the dog is not ready, very green, doesn't know what's going on, etc... I "think" that novice has improved because people are doing a more gradual approach with their young/green dogs.
Here in AA, MI area - I would say that any OTCH trainers with new babies coming out and entered in trials for the first time - they start with BN. Most of them can go CD-UD in the same year, so cramming the titles on isn't the issue. It's all the prep work they put into the dog before they take off.
Just responding the last paragraph: there’s still way too much talking in Rally IMO. I don’t think it leads into obedience much at all except for a few foundational skills (heeling, finishes, moving downs/stands, etc.). Talking is a crutch in Rally and the scoring is not nearly as hard as it is in Obedience (depending on the judge). If you start in Rally instead of Obedience, it can really lead to some bad habits that are extremely difficult to overcome. However, if Rally is your goal, then talk all you want! But for people who use Rally as a way to get ring experience before moving into Obedience, I highly recommend treating it like an obedience run: only talk when necessary to give commands with a few reinforcer words scattered out. Absolutely no cheerleading or you will regret it almost immediately in Obedience.I used to train with somebody who didn't even let you take open classes until you had at least 1 novice leg. >.< That mentality stuck until I was taking classes with my Jacks and the people teaching the class sort of made it clear how closely related all the levels are and even now it's particularly clear now that AKC dragged facets of utility into open.
With novice you've got your off leash heeling and your recalls. If you do not have that downpat, then you are not going to be able to jump into open where all heeling is off leash (you can't even touch your dog's collar in the ring unlike in novice where it's allowed to lead the dog from exercise to exercise by the collar, don't rely on that or do it, but you can if you wanted to) and you go from the one recall in novice to three of them.
If your dog is iffy on off leash and gives you crooked fronts each time, then you will have your points drained away in open.
With open you have your off leash heeling, recalls, retrieves, "open signals", and jumps. If you struggle with all these areas, you will not be able to make the jump into utility which bumps up the difficulty with heeling, signals, and recall exercise without any verbal commands, two retrieves (to marked objects, not thrown), you have a stand that you hopefully trained and maintained from novice level but with more hands on exam + call to heel, and then the jumps are their own level of difficult with the send away and jumps from an angle, and I can go on and on...
But main thing is that novice is the foundation for the rest of obedience. Everything you do in novice will reappear at the higher levels but at a greater difficulty in a "But wait, THERE'S MOREEEEE" kind of way.
BN has become pretty standard as the intro to novice, because it has the on leash heel (including f8), sit for exam, and recall as you would have in regular novice. Well, you have a stand for exam in novice, but if your dog can't handle a sit for exam then standing will be problematic. If you do not have these exercises downpat to Q in BN, you will not be able to make the jump into novice.
Rally... I do not think was ever intended to be an intro to regular obedience. It was more about giving people with retired dogs who could not jump full height something else to do rather than completely retire + they also wanted it to be a cross between obedience and agility. When it was initially introduced at the place where I trained, I'm not sure if the exercises were different at the start or what, but we had more exercises and jumps from agility set up on a rally course. You had more overt handling and talking allowed, etc.... which made it more difficult to then jump into novice because you were shaving away everything for the most part that made rally easier than regular obedience.
Now they have bumped up the difficulty in rally, so I'm not sure how it compares or leads into obedience.... other than people do have issues fading the handling and verbal praise/encouragement/etc from rally to regular obedience. There's people who might get a 100 in rally struggling to Q in the 170's.
I don't care for them and I'm not that patient with them in a ring setting. I fell in love with obedience long ago before RNs, BNs, and Rally were a thing. When Rally started at the club I was training at, the head instructor REALLY wanted everyone to try it, so I did...and I HATED it. That's just me...I know other people love it, and that's great. The signs drive me crazy and it just doesn't fit in with my training towards more traditional titles. When my Novice A dog started to get ring ready, we went to fun matches and then showed in UKC Obedience. That was a pretty good indication as to whether we were ready to show in AKC Obedience and we went straight to Novice and got our CD. That dog never NQ'd. We also do not just train Novice, but teach pieces of Novice-Utility while polishing Novice. I plan to do the same with the dog I am training now - has not been in an obedience ring yet, but he can do full set of scent articles, etc. It's not a fast way of training, but it works for me. I totally respect that everyone has their own goals and enjoys something different.
