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I have been "taught" BB blinds from several sources but could not fully explain "why" we run them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have been "taught" BB blinds from several sources but could not fully explain "why" we run them.
Well good. Then we have a basis for a training discussion; something we seldom have here. I'll post up again in the morning.

EvanG
 

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I never heard of a BB blind prior to seeing this post. I just looked around online a bit and read a bit about Bird Boy Blind.

To be honest, I would have never thought of such a thing. It appears to be for the purpose of having someone plant successive blinds to teach the dog new concepts.

To be honest, I would have never in a million years thought of having someone out in the field for blinds. I've been conditiioned from all my volunteer work to run out and plant the blind while the dog isn't looking then go hide and don't move while the dog picks up the blind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
There are more uses than one for BB Blinds, but most of all I use them in early Transition. They are the first Transition drill I run after Pattern Blinds. Once a dog is sharp cuing up for blinds, and running hard on PB's about 150 yards each, I no longer run them, but rather move on in transitioning toward a cold blind standard with BB Blinds. It is my firm belief that most trainers over use Pattern Blinds, assuming they are getting something out of them that they really aren't.

A Pattern Blind is a known destination...pre-identified, or pre-run. The dog knows the end from the beginning. That has value, but it's limited in scope.

A Cold Blind is an unknown destination, hence the name "Blind". The dog is totally reliant upon the handler to line and cast him to a spot previously unknown to the dog. That is an entirely different set of mental functions, and is what we continually train toward in Transition.

The function of the bird boy (BB) is soley to plant blinds. If he in any way influences the dog's performance, the drill is not being run correctly. He is not to draw the dog's attention. He is not there for deflaring training. He isn't there to participate as any kind of structure or concept at all. He just plants one cold blind at a time - walking a course directed by the trainer.

EvanG
 

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Hi Evan, I do have a question. I saw BB blinds run at a Mike Lardy seminar, the way he explained it was not so much as a transitional tool to phase to cold blinds but rather as a way to get in a lot of cold blinds in one lesson, as to correct a problem that only shows up on cold blinds (i.e. looping sits, flaring, whatever). Maybe I misunderstood him and that was the only take-home message I got, who knows. That did make sense to me though.
My question is, in your training scheme, after teaching pattern blinds do you then come and do pattern blind with diversions with a gunner in the field, so you can get some handling in on your pattern blinds?
If so is the dog then distracted by the bird boy when running BB blinds which I would presume would be your next step after pattern blinds with diversions? Or does the dog say "oh no, I'm not to head toward that guy, I just learned that"? At any rate do you find that the BB affects the dog either by drawing the dog to or away from the planted bumper?
Do you use BB blinds solely as a means for transitioning from the pattern blind field to cold blinds, or do you revisit BB blinds later in the dog's training?
Thanks for your input.
 

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Thanks Evan. I don't think I'm ready for BB blinds but you've pointed out to me where I've missed steps in my own training program.

My friend showed me how to do pattern blinds but I forgot to ever do them. He says I don't listen to him, I think he's right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Evan, I do have a question. I saw BB blinds run at a Mike Lardy seminar, the way he explained it was not so much as a transitional tool to phase to cold blinds but rather as a way to get in a lot of cold blinds in one lesson, as to correct a problem that only shows up on cold blinds (i.e. looping sits, flaring, whatever). Maybe I misunderstood him and that was the only take-home message I got, who knows. That did make sense to me though.
Mike spent a bit less time at Carr's than I did, so it's likely that when he saw BB Blinds he only saw them used for maintenance. That's certainly a good thing. But it isn't the only use for them. Primarily, I use them as my first Transition drill after Pattern Blinds to work toward cold blinds.
My question is, in your training scheme, after teaching pattern blinds do you then come and do pattern blind with diversions with a gunner in the field, so you can get some handling in on your pattern blinds?
I used to. I think most of us used to do that, and many still do. I devised a new drill that I believe is far more efficient called Four Phase Drill. Each phase is a standard diversion mark concept. It looks like this, and is based on a 100-yard pre-identified pile with a moving gun.


If so is the dog then distracted by the bird boy when running BB blinds which I would presume would be your next step after pattern blinds with diversions? Or does the dog say "oh no, I'm not to head toward that guy, I just learned that"? At any rate do you find that the BB affects the dog either by drawing the dog to or away from the planted bumper?
I find that if you run the drill right, and adequately separate the BB and bumper, the dog soon comes to ignore the BB. If he doesn't, there is something wrong with how you're running the drill. The sole purpose of the BB is to plant blinds, not influence how the dog runs the drill.
Do you use BB blinds solely as a means for transitioning from the pattern blind field to cold blinds, or do you revisit BB blinds later in the dog's training?
Thanks for your input.
As mentioned above, I also use them for maintenance and problem solving.

EvanG
 

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Mike spent a bit less time at Carr's than I did, so it's likely that when he saw BB Blinds he only saw them used for maintenance. That's certainly a good thing. But it isn't the only use for them. Primarily, I use them as my first Transition drill after Pattern Blinds to work toward cold blinds.I used to. I think most of us used to do that, and many still do. I devised a new drill that I believe is far more efficient called Four Phase Drill. Each phase is a standard diversion mark concept. It looks like this, and is based on a 100-yard pre-identified pile with a moving gun.


I find that if you run the drill right, and adequately separate the BB and bumper, the dog soon comes to ignore the BB. If he doesn't, there is something wrong with how you're running the drill. The sole purpose of the BB is to plant blinds, not influence how the dog runs the drill.As mentioned above, I also use them for maintenance and problem solving.

EvanG
Thanks for the reply. With Fisher I taught our pattern blinds (3 on a field, length of 125-200 yds), then went to a smaller field and did chair drills which were very much like your four phase drill just on a smaller scale. Once the dog understood those we moved back to our pattern blind field to do PBs with diversions. Oh my what a light turned on with Fisher when we put that all together. It was so fun and amazing to see!
It is good to hear that the dog "soon comes to ignore the BB." I need to hear that things aren't automatic and there is some learning to it before you can really take off on the drill. I know my dog well enough that I saw that as a perceived issue!
I have your transition book, but of course, have loaned it to a friend just starting in transition, so I can't go look at your step-by-step!
I think I will try BB blinds once the weather cools down and I can feel safe doing a lot of reps at once. We are still in the mid-90s even at 6 pm. We do a set of marks and one or two blinds then back in the car with AC on.
Thanks again for your explanations!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You're welcome. If you had the DVD titled "Transition; Phase 1" you could watch these drills in live action. They're both on there. I think you would find both enlightening and helpful.

EvanG
www.rushcreekpress.com
 

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You know I think I have the DVD too -- I remember watching T/TT on video so if it's on that one I've got it. Will have to revisit!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You know I think I have the DVD too -- I remember watching T/TT on video so if it's on that one I've got it. Will have to revisit!
That's the Basic Handling DVD.



These drills are transitional. They're on this one.



EvanG
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think I will try BB blinds once the weather cools down and I can feel safe doing a lot of reps at once. We are still in the mid-90s even at 6 pm. We do a set of marks and one or two blinds then back in the car with AC on.
Thanks again for your explanations!
Have you had a chance to run some BB Blinds yet?

EvanG
 
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