Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

81 - 100 of 152 Posts

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #81
Last night we didn't have enough time to set up a whole T so I did 4 bumper wagon wheel and 4 bumper casting drill (basically casting instead of sending from side, like a wagon wheel).
Today I went to our local pond and set up a back pile in the water for Bally. The water wasn't as hot as the other day (different pond) and my back pile was about 20 yards of swimming. I sent probably 6-7 times and Bally did GREAT -- no problems whatsoever. The water didn't change anything. One time I did force en route right before he hit the water. Cute little session! He is clearly not ready for a water T yet but I figure establishing a back pile cannot hurt at this stage. I am happy to see he is unphased by the water and knows what is expected.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #82
OK another entry. I recently buckled down and really studied my training books and realized we are not ready to start formal T just yet. In a mish-mash of techniques from Lardy, Mitch White and Dobbs' training manual I now have a training plan for the next month or two building up the skills we need for both handling and marking before I get down to real T work:

FORCE/PILE WORK
• Long distance FTP (150+ yds)
• Water force (10-15 yd channel, force on a few throws first, backs & overs as well as side sends)
• Two-channel water force
• decheating (Mitch)

HANDLING
• 3 handed casting/WW casting. With and without diversion throws
• Come-in and angle-in casts
• Left & right back w/ diversions
• Heeling Alignment drills (Dobbs)
Square pattern
Backwards heeling
Here/heel pivots
Return to heel/one-step realignment
• Lining drills
multiple piles/go as sent
WW
lining to white stake (backchaining blind)

SIT/STEADY
• "Place" on mat
• Force to mat
• Steady drills on mat & remote sends
• CC to SIT with collar on butt
sit while walking --> running
sit while coming in
sit to bumper
sit to pile
• Holding blind drill

Have been working on marking with most throws angle-back. Bally's propensity is to stop even with the gunner then loop INTO the gunner.

Lots to work on. Slow going with so much travel & shows. Bally now has 7 championship points and one major all out of 12-18 so at least we've made progress on that :)
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #83
OK an update! I was out of town for 2 weeks end of July/beginning of August but have been back home now about 2 weeks. Lots of training progress for Bally. We are just focusing on the tasks I listed above.
I have done several sessions of "multiple piles" (lining to white stakes) at ~50 yards and he is pretty perfect. I typically put 5 bumpers at each pile and try to leave one bumper left ("just in case") at each stake -- so that's a lot of bumpers to pick up. The only issue I have is Bally not wanting to SIT before taking off. He's like "you pointed me at it and I'm outta here." OK.....

We've worked lots on the place mat to where I can send him from about 30 feet away "place" and he turns around and sits. About a week ago I began steadying drills using the mat. First I would just tease him with the bumper to try to leave the mat, and eventually I would walk 20-30 feet away and throw the bumper. If he broke I would intercept him and then send back to the mat with nicks. I liked this as it took me out of the equation, Bally didn't have to worry about being in heel position per se, just being steady. I eventually graduated to me standing on the mat next to him and throwing bumpers myself. Yesterday was the first time I had a gunner throw bumpers. Short, only 20-30 yards or so. First throw was silent, then a hey-hey, then a duck call, then a duck call and lots of shouting. He broke one time and was corrected on the way back with a medium 3.
Today I repeated the drill, this time building up to having a bird thrown, lots of duck calling and hollaring, making it really exciting. He broke one time and got two nicks on a medium 4 as he came back to the mat (I call -- NO -- HERE - nick nick as he returns. He never gets corrected with the collar as he's heading away from me). He was steady as a rock the rest of the time! This is working! (I think)

The other thing we've done this past week is the 150 yard long distance FTP. Using the directions in Mitch White's book -- it's like following a recipe, I take the book with me so I get it right :)
First day I worked up to 100 yards, on the first 100 yard send Bally got over halfway out there and drifted off to the right, when I yelled BACK and nicked him he turned around like "WHAT?!" - another force and he then focused back on the pile and ran. I use a white stake to mark the pile so who knows what that was all about. The very next send he lined it like a rocket -- great :)
It's too hot to do the full drill in all one session so we stopped there. Last night was session #2, this time I started at the 50 yard mark and worked back to the full 150 yards. I think on two of the sends he was forced half way en route, and did everything perfect. On the final send of the night I received in heel position, said "SIT" -- Bally looked out -- "GOOD" - "BACK" and he lined it from that far away!!! I was thrilled :)
The last few steps of the drill involve forcing en route TWICE then lining from your side the full distance, so we'll save that for tomorrow. This drill was definitely the missing piece, I'm really happy I decided to do it.
Will check back in later with more progress.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #84
OK we did our last session on long distance force tonight and it went great. Set out pile, got the dog, we walked out to 75 yards and I sent Bally from my side. White stake so he saw it and ran right to it. Next send was a back cast from 100 yards, straight. Next I received him at 125 yards and sent him from my side. I forced once at about 40 yards out (medium 3) and once at about 90 yards out (low 4). He didn't seem to react at all. Proof would be in the pudding on the next send -- backed up to the full 150 yards, side send, he looked right out and flew to the stake (no pressure). No hesitation and fast. Woohoo! I think we're done with this and will move on to water pile tomorrow. I am anxious to get through water force work and on to decheating. Hoping to get a few water sessions in before I leave for shows next week.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #85
Yippee we trained with our group tonight and first we did a few steady singles off the mat with Bally and he was perfect, then he ran the setup marks as singles, totally steady -- perfect!!!! :) Will try to get to the pond tomorrow.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #86
OK first session of water pile today went I suppose really well. I say suppose because Bally acted exactly like he does on land, which was pretty much perfect. I'm not sure I could have asked for any more of him. My channel is 15 yards across and he retrieved 10 bumpers. Force (remote send) on two, at a medium 3. He never once balked, hesitated, bugged, or whatever. Every send a leap in the water. Once he got a nick for stopping on the FAR shore (near the bumpers) and looking back, another nick for stopping with the bumper at the shore, dropping it and messing around a little. On the 2nd or 3rd send he decided to run ALLLLLL the way around on the way back, and got nicks the entire way. He didn't try to repeat that. Other than that he did great. I want to watch my Stawski vids tonight or before tomorrow's session to make sure I'm doing it right. Guess I should have done that yesterday! Have read all my books and pretty much did what they told me to do.
The only bad thing was, well besides being very hot, Bally drank about a gallon of water. He always coughs and sputters coming back with a bumper and with all the swimming he ingested a ton of it. No worse for the wear, just had to pee a lot a few hours later! Hoping he will figure it out.....
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #87
Water pile session #2 went great today. My timing was both terrible and perfect. Terrible because usually it's the hottest time of the day, didn't plan it but just worked out that way with other stuff to do. 5 p.m. and my weather app said 96º 45% humidity "feels like 106º" ewww! But right as I started setting out my bumpers a big cloud came over and it cooled down significantly, by the time I packed up to go it was sprinkling.
Anyways I basically repeated what I did yesterday, picked up 10 bumpers, about half side-sends, the other half remote casts. I am sending anywhere from 15-30 feet off the shore. By the end of the session I came to the conclusion that it must be making some impact on Bally because he was VERY eager to be sent -- either creeping for a side send or trying to autocast on a remote.
He drank less water than yesterday so that's good too.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #88
Another session today. Picked up 9 bumpers. I would like to be picking up more than 9 or 10, and my dog could do more, but the water is so freakin hot I am afraid to have him do that much. It is like, warmer than bathwater coming off the dog when he gets out. By the 4-5 send he is panting with big tongue hanging out.
Anyways the only thing new I did today was a force en route IN the water. This is not something I've ever done before. I've been talking to my friend Jim (marshmop) about our progress and he asked if I had done it yet, and that it was on the Stawski video, which I hadn't watched yet. Watched it this afternoon and sure enough. So two sends today we did force en route in the water on a low-2. It was amazing to see how Bally instantly picked up speed and tried really hard to swim even faster.
I am having a hard time getting him to sit either at my side or remote, he wants to go. Rather than beat that into the ground I think it's time to move on. If I can go out tomorrow I think we'll do multiple piles in the water.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #89
OK we have trained a good fair bit since my last post.
First off Bally is doing great with his STEADY work -- I'm very pleased with that.
Today he got in trouble for BARKING while heeling to the line -- nonono
But he was steady :)
For our water work we have really progressed. I did one session of "mini piles" (basically 3 piles marked with a white stake about 30-40 yards across a pond) -- when I set this up, the middle one was a bit longer and he could not clue in on the stake. The left and right piles he did and went to them with no trouble. The middle one, I thought he saw it, sent him, and he actually went about a third or halfway before turning to the right to go get a bumper from the right pile. I stopped him by saying "SIT" (he does not know a whistle sit, but this actually worked), gave him a left back, and he actually turned and went left -- all the way to the left pile! While not what I was expecting, I thought that was pretty freaking good! I decided that drill was of limited use in the water so we didn't go back to it.
Yesterday we had another session of backpile in the water, this time sending from pretty far up the shore, maybe from ~25 yards away.
Today we went to our friend Betsy's to train, who has wonderful technical ponds. I was able to set up a backpile in the water that was about 40 yards away and over a point. So Bally had to swim a 10 yard channel, run up and over about 5 yards of land, swim another 15 yards and then I put the pile about 10 yards back on the shore. The strips of land are long and narrow so no danger of cheating. I started by sending him from the finger -- no problem, then left him in a sit, ran around and casted him back to the pile from there. From then on out he lined it from the full distance and did GREAT. I forced several times, remote on a back cast, on the finger of land, once in the water, and once as he was exiting the water almost to the pile. He picked up 8 or 9 bumpers. He is getting much better about not swallowing a bunch of water, so that's good. We'll go again next week and repeat the drill.
d
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #90
Hi! OK we have had a few water sessions since our last update. We went to Betsy's again on Monday to do FTP over a finger. All was going well until I tried to back up about 25-30 yards off the shore, at which point Bally gave me the first refusal of his life. I sent him from my side, he left but spun around and looked at me a few feet out. I did our no-go procedure a la Mitch White of 3 heels with 3 nicks each, sent him and Bally flew to the pile. Next send was a back cast, no problem, I can't remember if the next one after that was another side send or not but not soon after Bally balked again (remember, we are 25-30 yards from the water) and I repeated the correction. He again flew to the back pile. Not wanting to dig myself even deeper, my next side send I moved up to our "normal" 10 yards off the bank, and he had NO trouble. In fact he is so eager to go he doesn't want to sit in heel position. I was regretful that whole thing happened but this IS the point in training when you want things ironed out in the dog's head about expectations!
Tuesday I went to our local pond where I can do a 15-yard back pile in the water, sent Bally a number of times and boy did he ever get the message. NO problems and the last send from my side was from probably 25 yards from the shore. This pond is in a residential neighborhood, and that send was from across the street to the retention pond. These people must think I'm nuts. They have no idea how valuable their retention pond is to my dog training.
So out to Betsy's again today, set up the pile over the point, and I built it much like the 150-yard long distance FTP (described previously), starting with a side send from the finger, then back cast off the finger, side send close to shore (over the finger), back cast with force over the finger, side send from 20 yards back, back cast with force from 20 yards back, etc, finally ending with two side-sends from 40 yards off the shore, making the whole pile about 80 yards away. Bally did GREAT. I did notice that when I backed up that far, he had of course a much wider view of the pond, and took a little longer to focus on the back pile. That is a LOT of terrain for him to take in. Anyways today was great so I'm calling it quits with this exercise. For the next week or so we'll just work on Wagon Wheel (I am up to 6-8 bumpers and he's doing REALLY well) and MARKS. Next big step is collar condition to whistle sit.

Here is a picture from today, of our back pile over the point.

bally-overpointpile.jpg
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #91
I didn't realize it'd been so long since an update. We have had lots of shows including the National since September. For yardwork we've been keeping up on lining drills and 3-handed casting (baseball) with diversions. I work on all manner of diversion throws with Bally and he's gotten pretty good at it.

Last week I buckled down and started on collar conditioning to whistle sit. He has had plenty of repetitions with the whistle learning that it means SIT. Heeling & sitting, sitting while coming in from a retrieve, my long-line turn & sit drill. He responded OK but not perfect by any means.

I decided I was going to CC to sit whistle using the old Dobbs method of putting the collar around the dog's waist with the receiving unit on top, over the dog's hips. After doing a lot of reading and considering what I had done with Fisher & Slater, I decided to try it. Mitch is here in FL this winter and he uses this method so if I screw it up, at least I have him to fall back on!

So we spent two days just getting used to the feel of the collar around Bally's waist. He wore the bark collar (turned off) around his neck. He quickly learned to ignore his "belt" and we practiced all of our sitting drills with no pressure for 2 days.

On the 3rd session I began adding collar pressure while heeling. I would walk briskly, blow the whistle and keep on walking. Bally was expected to sit immediately and not follow me. The Dobbs book makes it real cut and dry -- hold down the button until the dog's butt is on the ground! In an effort not to over think it, that's exactly what I did. They also advised that dogs were more sensitive on their rump than their neck, and to go down a level. That I had doubts on, and I was right. I started with a low two, and didn't get a reaction until I got to a low four!!
Anyways over the next few sessions we progressed quickly to sitting with collar pressure for slow compliance on the following steps:

1 - walking briskly at heel
2 - running at heel
3 - recall with sit halfway back
4 - recall with bumper in mouth, sit half way back
5 - throw fun bumper, sit half way back
6 - Now the true test. Walk single bumper out about 40 feet away, return to dog. Send and blow the whistle half way. Bally's first true whistle sit en route to a retrieve and.....he did it! SUPER! Only problem I noticed is he sat down so fast his back was to me. The next session I held a 2nd bumper in my hand, and waved it as he turned, which gave a much straighter sit, followed by releasing him to fetch the bumper. This little step got him sitting much straighter.
7 - Sitting en route to a pile of bumpers ~40 yards away. Today was our first session with an actual pile and I was REALLY REALLY happy. Bally did about 10 sends to the pile, and I think I stopped him on 3 of the sends. His sits were great. On the 8th send I stopped him twice en route, rather than just at the halfway point, then sends 9 & 10 were freebees to the pile. He had GREAT momentum and never anticipated the whistle, yet his sits were immediate and no looping.

I want to work up to a long-distance sit-to-pile drill (150+ yards) with the collar still on his butt, and hopefully borrow a friend's collar to have a working remote collar on butt and neck for a quick transition to only the neck collar. Haven't hammered out exactly my progression there but --- so far so good.

Not sure if it's the dog, my training schedule or both, but every step of the way I have encountered very little confusion and thus we're able to move along quickly.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #92
We have worked almost every day on sit on the whistle. We've now transferred the collar back to the neck and can stop multiple times to a pile 40-50 yards away. Very pleased with progress!!!! Will start on single T next.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #93
Here's an update a month later. We are officially into single-T and Bally's transferrence of all the previous skills onto T went without a single hitch. He put it all together in one session. I've done T probably 6-8 times now and he is flawless on his going, stopping, casting. I can throw poison bumpers and run him, throw to an over pile and send him to a back pile, he will handle with the bumper in his mouth and do a "run-by." About the only thing that confuses him is sometimes he gets turned around if I do a back-cast from a remote sit right in front of me to send him to the back pile. Yesterday I put a holding blind out in the middle of my T and he totally ignored it.

Today we were training water so I set up a back pile and stopped him en route in the water -- first time ever -- he did real real well, no problems!

I am VERY pleased with his progress, not only is he a quick learner but he very quickly puts pieces together with little confusion. I will say, his demeanor is very different from Slater. Slater has an incredible work ethic and saddled with any task he goes after it like his life depends on it. He is very demonstrative in his desire to do whatever it is, and to do it quickly. If you put pressure on him he definitely feels it although works through it. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. Bally is more out for a joy ride -- this is easy for him and he enjoys it -- but he doesn't act like his very being exists for single-T :) I wouldn't change anything at this point, but it is a different pace than his older brother. Bally is more independent and doesn't need my help or approval for everything, Slater hangs on my every word. Quite amusing!!!
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #94


Single T today complete with pink flamingoes and holding blinds :)

71º 78% humidity
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #96
We had another session of stopping to the back pile in the water today. Bally did real well. The first few stops I held and swung a bumper which got him to focus on me, now he's treading water pretty well without it. I've been doing this on a piece of water that is about 30 yards across, so kinda far -- I think next time I will go put it on my smaller swim-by area so I can put in some side piles. The only benefit is when I finally get to a swim-by, I want to be able to throw a bumper to the side piles, and this larger area is a bit to big for me to be able to do that. It will be good to come back to it on the larger scale as a proof. Anyways, we're moving right along....
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #97
More T work today. I am working on getting him proficient in the run-by and disciplined casting before moving on to double-T. Today we made real progress. Was able to get in a lot of handling by stopping and casting on the way back from the back pile. I actually forced on an over twice because I gave a cast and he just sat there. I gave the cast again and nicked as he started to go. It definitely helped.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #98
Have tried to get a session in every day. We've hammered out the kinks on disciplined casting/run-by and he is really quite adorable at it and fast. He is perfect on running-by to the right over pile, needs more work on going to left over pile.
Two sessions ago I decided to start stretching out the center line to build our double T. Some definite confusion there. I started by sitting him remote at what used to be our "home plate" but is now the intersection for the closer over piles, and casting him back. Got a lot of trying to run to over piles, especially the right one, as right back cast is his weaker cast. I found that if I backed up that far, my field is slightly convex and the dog cannot see the back pile from the new starting point, so I added a white stake which helped. Today I set out the 2nd set of overs, and just worked on the center line, both remote casts and sending from my side.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #99
Yesterday and today our TT sessions were a breakthrough.
I was slightly dissatisfied with Bally's speed to the backpile --- but hesitant to force much as I know he is trying to figure it out. I am really happy that he has never popped, and he understands that if he runs through an intersection without hearing a whistle he is home free and speeds up, which is cute, and of course very smart. But I was getting some looking around while running, not running as fast as I know he's capable, and some mistakes due to not putting in a lot of effort to be right (i.e. caving to side piles). So yesterday I got a little fed up with all of it. I had forced en route on one send with a medium-3 and got no response. The next send I forced on a low-4, no response, immediately again with a medium-4, no response, immediately again with a high-4 (this is all instantaneously on the same send) and WOW that got a response! Vocalizing and Bally turned on the afterburners and hauled azz to the back pile! YES! Amazing how after that he could both run fast AND not think about the over piles! Amazing! We quit after 2 or 3 more sends to end on a high note.

This morning I've already been out to the field -- First send was slower than I would like so I forced on medium-4 no response immediately high-4, he vocalized, spun to look at me, back cast and hauled butt to the pile. From then on out every send was at warp speed and great commitment. Normally I would be loathe to do that on the first send of the session but I can't let him get away with being lackadaisical from here on out. Only one time did he try to go for an over and I think it was to avoid the spot he got burned in. One handle put him back on the back pile. After that all of his sends were fast and straight.
I also sat him remotely at both intersections and cast to each over pile (all four) individually. On subsequent sends I stopped him on the way back, first at the close intersection, and did a run-by (first to left pile, then all the way over to right pile). Next send on the return I stopped him at the far intersection and did a run-by in the opposite direction. On that one he needed a handle as he tried to dig back toward the back pile. Brought him in a little and re-cast over, and he went right away. A few more straight sends and we were done.

I think at tomorrow's session I will start up closer to the pile and back up, or do remote casts. I do not want to get in a situation where I have to force en route after sending from my side full length on the first one. Don't want to set up a self-fulfilling prophecy of expecting something bad to happen.
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,221 Posts
Discussion Starter #100
I've been toying with moving on to pattern blinds but was waiting for a few sessions of nearly 100% double T. Today was GREAT. Everything was super : speed, attitude, compliance. Only one bad cast today, and I had one sequence where I sent him with the bumper in his mouth, stopped on the far intersection, overed to the right, run-by to left pile, stopped, overed to center line, called in to close intersection, and did a run-by in the opposite way, with no flaws and super cute waggy tail on every sit. Can't ask for more! I have obedience trials this weekend then cramming for our hunt test the next two weeks (Slater, not Bally). I think I might try setting up my pattern blinds then, and start our water T also. Both things at Lazy J. I did pattern blinds with my other two at a local community college field, but now that I've moved it's equal distance and I'd rather not deal with the risk of roaming public at the college. Plus it's easier to recruit gunners at Lazy J once it's time to do PBs w/ diversions.
Anyways I've also been working on drills to improve casting and lining. We've started walking baseball and Bally is super cute at it. A perfect drill for casting and teaching come-ins and angle-ins. I will go through my books and see what other drills will be appropriate for his level.
 
81 - 100 of 152 Posts
Top