Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We adopted Lucky two months ago. Right when we got him he had loose stools/diarehhia. Along with the loose stools he was puking every couple of days and only on those days would be lethargic like. First vet treated him for a parasite which came up negative, just in case (they did not test for giardia) Anyways, after finding a second vet we found out Lucky had giardia. Treated him for 2 weeks with medicines.

During the treatments he had one firm poo (Yippee!!). The next day he puked, back to lethargic ways. Called the vet, she said give it time he had a bad case for a long time. A couple of days pass, still has diarehhia. Called the vet. They said give it a couple of days. They did not want to see him. So this morning he wakes up and pukes again! He is back to being lethargic today. I called the vet and they said they would see him tomorrow. The doctor is not in today.

I mentioned to them as well that Lucky drinks a lot of water! Or at least seems to to me. We fill his bowl at least 7 times a day!

Does anyone have any ideas of what I should be asking the vet this time? Should we ask to do another round of treatments, even though he has been through two rounds? Could too much water (if 7 bowls is too much) be causing the problems? Are there any other tests we should request for my sweet baby?

The vet told me to monitor and measure his water intake to see how much he is really drinking. So I will know more on that tomorrow.

Any help on questions for them is much appreciated! I feel so bad that he has been sick for 2 months!
 

·
IKE- Canine Blood Donor
Joined
·
12,542 Posts
Gosh, poor guy. I don't really have any suggestions for you, but that does sound like a lot of water...but my Ike drinks very little, so could just be a lot by comparison. Are you sure he's giardia free now or might he still have it? Could it be food related? Many members post about bowel issues with certain foods. You might demand to be seen by the Vet, I think I would.
 

·
Nancy
Joined
·
7,493 Posts
Wish I could off some help. 7 bowls of water seems like a lot. Diabetes comes to mind but not sure if canine diabetes has the same symptoms as human.

My SIL's beagle had something going on where they had to limit his (excessive) water intake. The dog has since died (of old age).
 

·
Missing Tasha, Sky, & Ral
Joined
·
3,380 Posts
I have no advice on the water drinking. I think Tasha is part camel. She drinks very little. Mickey was a puppy mill rescue and had giardia. It took us several months and a couple of treatments before it was totally gone. I would ask if he could still have the giardia. Good luck tomorrow. Please let us know how you make out. Hope Lucky is feeling better soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Gosh, poor guy. I don't really have any suggestions for you, but that does sound like a lot of water...but my Ike drinks very little, so could just be a lot by comparison. Are you sure he's giardia free now or might he still have it? Could it be food related? Many members post about bowel issues with certain foods. You might demand to be seen by the Vet, I think I would.
Paula,

I am not sure if he is giardia free. I think if nothing else I am going to ask to retest him. Seems odd that there would be two problems. Right now he is on California Natural Chicken. When he was being treated for giardia he was on prescription food. Which he hated. He does not eat small kibble well at all. we are transitioning him back to the CN.
Thanks for your help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Wish I could off some help. 7 bowls of water seems like a lot. Diabetes comes to mind but not sure if canine diabetes has the same symptoms as human.

My SIL's beagle had something going on where they had to limit his (excessive) water intake. The dog has since died (of old age).
Diabetes came to my mind too. I guess it would not hurt to bring it up. He is slightly overweight. When we adopted him they told me he dropped like 10lbs in a week. I thought they were fibbing because they did on a lot of other things (long story). But weight loss could have been giardia too. That is why I suspected diabetes assuming all the symptoms are the same as humans. His CBC was normal.

I will definitely ask.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have no advice on the water drinking. I think Tasha is part camel. She drinks very little. Mickey was a puppy mill rescue and had giardia. It took us several months and a couple of treatments before it was totally gone. I would ask if he could still have the giardia. Good luck tomorrow. Please let us know how you make out. Hope Lucky is feeling better soon.
I am hoping to get more answers tomorrow! I wish I could just get him in today but they said it is not possible since there is no doctor in today.
 

·
Jack's mama
Joined
·
38 Posts
Hi Beth,

Is he on any kind of vitamins? Our pup had really bad loose stool for about 2 months as well. He would get hard stool once and awhile but not very often. He was getting to the point that he couldn't hold it in his crate and had to go out during the night sometimes. We had to give him 5 ML of Kaopectate 3 times a day for awhile to try to get him cleared up, but it was only a temporary help. We tried everything from switching food to checking for parasites. Turns out that it was the PetTab vitamins that the vet gave us to give to him (he also gave us some fish oil pills to help with his skin when trying to clear up a bout of demo-dectic mange and that may have had something to do with it as well). As soon as we stopped giving him the vitamins he cleared up and has been good ever since. That was about 3-4 months ago. Not sure if this helps but it is the only thing I can think of. Good luck and prayers to you and Lucky!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Update on luck

I spoke with one of my coworkers. She said she really likes her vet. So I decided why not? I went to him and he has confused me even more!

He said he is not convinced that Luck had giardia? :uhoh: He said that the stool test that the vet does just shows if they ever been around giardia but does not mean he had it then?!?! :confused::confused: So he suggested to run a full blood test. Which we did and will get the results on Saturday. He said he feels we can rule out food sensitivity because he was on the prescription food and most likely parasites because he has gone through two treatments?

Now I am just lost! My poor baby pukes every 5 days. Loose stools/diarehhia everyday and I have no real answers or ideas. OHHH he lost 4 lbs in 1.5 weeks. Nothing changed. I guess that could be scales, plus he is not hurting losing the weight since he is overweight.

I think I am going to just keep a diary. All food/treats/water/urination/stool/puke. Keep it for a couple of weeks and try again...Just tonight since starting the diary he drank 3.5 cups of water in one hour?

Thanks for listening to my rant!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
43,252 Posts
Do you have a vet college near you? I ask because sometimes they can help when other vets are just not sure of what it might be. Maybe you can give him some smaller meals a couple of times a day to see if that helps. Sometimes when dogs eat to much at one meal it could give them loose stools. I am not certain but 11 months is kind of young for diabetes but I dont know everything about diabetes. Until you can get to the bottom of what is going on, I would limit his treats to the bare minimum or knock them out completely. Just his food, to see if it might be something in the treats. Keeping a journal is a good idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks Carol. I will check into the school idea tomorrow. That is a super idea! I have went back to limiting his treats. His treats were green beans but might as well cut that out too. We feed him 3 times a day. We know we do not need to but figured it would be nice. His second meal is in a Busy Buddy, where he has to roll it to get it out. Take a little longer to eat.

Hopefully it is something small, or just giardia and this last vet was wrong.
 

·
Missing Molly
Joined
·
1,524 Posts
I am guessing this won't help but I'll throw it out there anyway. When my girl has pancreatitis. She has puking and diarrhea. The vet gives her anti-nausea shot plus this doggy kaopectate stuff. She tells me not feed her for 24 hours and only give little sips of water. This helps her digestive tract calm down. Then if she is puke free after 24 hours, I can give her a tablespoon of food. If she keeps that down I can give her another in an hour and so it goes for about 3 days. All the time I am supposed to keep her from drinking too much. So I put the water down and she gets a few laps and then I pick the water up. I do this every 3o minutes or so. It really helps. I know it is not the same issue but the technique may work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
958 Posts
Forgive me if this gets long.....

Keeping a diary or "poop log":doh: as we called ours is one of the best things you can do at this point. I believe it was one of the things that really helped us nail down and work through our problems. I would also suggest keeping notes of conversations with vets and information that you gather here and keep all of it in a folder.

3 weeks after we brought Gracie home in March, she started having mush poops. A trip to the vet and fecal float test revealed Giardia. She was put on Metronadizole (Flagyl) for 1 week, which resolved the issue....for a few weeks. After a relapse in May, she was again put on Metro for a week. Again, the soft poops resolved quickly while on the meds, only to return again a few weeks later. After the first fecal test showed positive for Giardia, we did at least 5 or 6 more floats, which all showed negative for Giardia....still the problems remained. Fecal floats don't always show positive for Giardia, even though it is present. It took us nearly 5 months to get our problem controlled.

Here are some things we learned along the way.

Once a dog comes in contact with the Giardia parasite, he/she will be a carrier for life. Giardia is very common and statistics say that as many as 80-90% of ALL dogs are carriers of Giardia. Normally the dogs system will control the Giardia population in the digestive tract. However, stress and other factors can allow the Giardia to take control, resulting in inflammation of the intestinal tract and malabsorption of nutrients (particularly fat). That only increases the level of stress on the system, which leaves you in a never ending battle to fix the problem.

At this point, I believe rather than trying to control the Giardia, your main goal is to take care of the inflammation. Reduce the inflammation and you will begin to have a chain reaction. The malabsorption will be reduced. Then stress will be reduced. When the stress is reduced, the dogs system will be better able to control the Giardia on its own.

There are a couple of drugs that vets will use for Giardia. One is Panacur (fenbenadazole) and the other is Flagyl (Metronidazole). Panacur is more effective in controlling the Giardia, but does nothing to control the inflammation. Metro on the other hand is a really neat medicine. It acts as an anitbiotic, to help control the giardia. It is also an anti diarrhea medication, as well as an anti inflammatory. Metro really starts you off in the right direction. But it is not the end all. Metro is not as good as panacur in knocking down the Giardia, and you will often see the symptoms return within a few weeks after you discontinue. But it does begin to work on the intestianal inflammation. Unfortunately Metro can not be used for a long period of time. Also, both Panacur and Metro, being antibiotics, tend to kill off the good gut bacteria as well as the bad, which throws the digestive system even more out of wack. You can then end up with a SIBO (small intestine bacteria overgrowth)...which is just a good/bad bacteria imbalance.

At this point, I would suggest one possible solution, if you are reasonably certain that you are dealing with a digestive problem that is not really attributable to anything other than Giardia, there is a drug called Tylan/Tylosin....it was a god send for us. It is very much like Metronidazole. It has antibiotic properties, as well as anti diarrhea and anti inflammatory properties. In addition and unlike Metro, Tylan may be used long term and actually helps to rebalance the good/bad bacteria. We had Gracie on Tylan for 3 weeks, off 1 week (soft poops returned, but not mushy), back on Tylan for 3 weeks, and finally off again in August. Since that time she has good solid poops 95% of the time.

You can get Tylan from your vet, but you can also get it right on line without a prescription. It is not cheap....I believe you can get it from Amazon.com for right around $50....but I would imagine that you get enough to use it everyday for at least a year.

Please keep us updated...........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thank you ALL for your help and suggestions! Personally I have to think it is still giardia since he did test postitive for it once already. But since he was on the metro twice for 10 days and the panacur twice (once for 3 days once for 10 days) the vet seems to think it has to be another cause? Especially since we did not see any results from the medicines. Although, I think we did sort of. He did start to firm up he just did not quite get there.

I am definitely going to look at the website T and T, thanks for that reference. And I am going to talk to the vet and look into Tylan, thanks

I guess my only option at this point is to wait for the blood results on Saturday. Once they come in I should know more. If they are all normal I will lean more towards giardia and speak to them about that. I am also going to look into the school more today too like Carol suggested.

I am definitely going to look at the website T and T, thanks for that reference. And I am going to talk to the vet and look into Tylan, thanks Suckerforgold (along with the whole post that info is very helpful.) And I think withholding his food for awhile when he pukes is not a bad idea and slowly inroducing when he pukes may not be a bad idea either.

I really wish I was more informed on the health of dogs. I know Luck does not have anything serious (or I would assume because if you just looked at him he looks like a happy healthy pup). But I guess I am learning some of it now. I appreciate all of your help and suggestions. I would not have known where to begin without this forum!
 

·
Miss Happy
Joined
·
1,504 Posts
If you are not sure about the cause after talking with 2 vets, I would suggest Dr. Wayne Hause, Associated Veterinary Specialists, located in Bridgeton (check his web site). Our Sweet Katie had a problem (not like your problem) and after tests, x-rays, etc. with our vet, we went to Dr. Hause and on the second visit he knew the problem and prescribed treatment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Update

Lucky's blood work came back normal! Yippee!

The vet (who I am not fond of with anyways) said to start a food trial. Of course now he is out of town and can not give suggestions.

I started thinking (it really hurts when this happens) maybe all of this could be chicken? Every food and treat has chicken in it. About the only thing I can find in common. He was fed Gravy Train when I adopted him. We tried switching to Canidae but he has such a hard time eating small kibble so then we went to California Natural (chicken and rice).

I was also thinking maybe adding a probiotic?

Thinking......HURTS!
 

·
New Mommy
Joined
·
6,139 Posts
You might want to try Hills R/D for a while. It is high fiber and will firm my girls up in no time. It is a reducing diet, but you said he needed to lose weight anyway. It's certainly not my favorite food but it works well. I would think maybe if you used it for a month with no other treats or anything , you would have good results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
820 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Claire,

Assuming Hills I/D and R/D are the same We tried that during the treatment of giardia. He was on it three weeks. No treats. Only food and medicine. That is the part that makes no sense and only makes me think it is still giardia OR chicken....or grain I guess.

I will look into the difference between i/d and r/d

Thanks
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top