Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,417 Posts
Bottom three, yes.
Top one.....well, they "alllllllllllllmost" practice what they preach:
"All of Treasured Golden dogs have had their health clearences and can be verified through OFA. "

Yet....

"
All of Champ's [sire of current litter] OFA certs were completed at 22 months which means his hips and elbows will not show on OFA. We do have the OFA preliminary record on hand and can fax the results if requested. "

So "Champ" does NOT have OFA hips OR elbows OR eyes, nor do either of his parents.
"Hailey" (mother of current litter) has no eye clearance. Her sire has clearances but her mother does not. Clearance history spotty but better than nothing.

The Treasured Goldens does not hold a candle to the other ones. They are trying but I wouldn't personally entertain getting a puppy from them. It KILLS ME that they are asking the same price as a puppy with a pedigree full of clearances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,164 Posts
You know, when I went to the first website something just didn't "feel" right about it. But I didn't investigate the detail of clearances, so I didn't post because I didn't want to turn someone off based on a feeling with nothing to back it up. Good to know my instincts were correct.
 

·
The Missouri Crew
Joined
·
13,683 Posts
You cant go wrong with Delmarva Goldens!
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,417 Posts
Good to know my instincts were correct.
They always are on these things, aren't they?
You can see these guys a mile away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Thank you for the inquiry into americangoldenretriever.com.
If you feel we have done wrong by taking it upon ourselves to get preliminary OFA results that is your opinion. However, we are in fact a small kennel producing sound puppies with no known history of any health issues.

Health checks have been completed (Champ) is due to have his Penn Hip done as well and the Cerf clearences are difficult to obtain in our area however, we did locate a Doctor who does them and they to are on calender for this month.

Anyone who would like to contact previous owners who will attest to my quality pups is welcome to.

We take great pride in doing the best for our Golden Retriever family. We are not a large facility that makes a huge profit off of our pets but rather produce great family companions that the average family can afford.

Please feel free to contact me direct at americangoldenretriever.com

Karie Brock


Bottom three, yes.
Top one.....well, they "alllllllllllllmost" practice what they preach:
"All of Treasured Golden dogs have had their health clearences and can be verified through OFA. "

Yet....

"
All of Champ's [sire of current litter] OFA certs were completed at 22 months which means his hips and elbows will not show on OFA. We do have the OFA preliminary record on hand and can fax the results if requested. "

So "Champ" does NOT have OFA hips OR elbows OR eyes, nor do either of his parents.
"Hailey" (mother of current litter) has no eye clearance. Her sire has clearances but her mother does not. Clearance history spotty but better than nothing.

The Treasured Goldens does not hold a candle to the other ones. They are trying but I wouldn't personally entertain getting a puppy from them. It KILLS ME that they are asking the same price as a puppy with a pedigree full of clearances.

__________________
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,417 Posts
Thank you for the inquiry into americangoldenretriever.com.
If you feel we have done wrong by taking it upon ourselves to get preliminary OFA results that is your opinion.
Prelims are great. But they are not clearances. You directly contradict yourself on this issue.

However, we are in fact a small kennel producing sound puppies with no known history of any health issues.
Any breeder who says they NEVER have produced ANY health issue either hasn't actually bred a litter OR doesn't check on their puppies to find the health issues. Do you get clearances on your puppies you produce? How many litters have you had? How many generations of YOUR dogs have all their clearances? How about their littermates?

Health checks have been completed (Champ) is due to have his Penn Hip done as well and the Cerf clearences are difficult to obtain in our area however, we did locate a Doctor who does them and they to are on calender for this month.
Why would you go through the added expense of doing PennHIP when you haven't done OFA. That makes no sense. Especially since PennHIP certified vets are MUCH more difficult to find than one who can do regular old OFA views. The dog must be anesthetized for PennHIP. PennHIP is becoming the catch all for dogs who cannot get OFA clearances. Since they don't give a rating, and very few pet people know what the PennHIP numbers mean, and there is NO online verification of PennHIP, breeders are using PennHIP when they can't or won't do OFA.

Listen I have no problem with people breeding nice pets. There is a market. It's OK if you don't show the dogs, but at least do the clearances and be honest with your buyers. "Prelims" and "PennHIP" -- boy that's a lot of trouble when you could have just done OFA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Although I prefer not to get into dispute over this I feel my hand is being forced.
I spoke with OFA and yes according t them preliminary reports are still considered health clearences. I did not contradict myself.

In regards to our kennel we keep in touch with our pups through the years and yes we have no known health issues. After raising Golden Retriever Pups for over 10 years we raise on average 1 litter a year but some years we have had none.
The pups are taken to the vet at 3 days and throughtout the first 8 weeks and although we do not get OFA, CERF or PennHIP on them they are in fact vet checked and cleared by our vet.
As for why on the PennHIP well to put it in the most simple terms PennHIP takes the breed and compares them verses all dogs like OFA it is a more precise reading regardless of what the average buyer knows. The added expense is not that much and the dogs are under a light anestiha for either tests.
Hallie recieved a good, Chloe an Excellent and Champ a good (at 22 months) and yet still we are still paying the expense to assure ourselves with the PenHIP to not have any future problems (or at least to the best of my ability).
Bottom line we I do not wish to debate this with you nor will I any further.
Your dogs are beautiful and we are simply trying to do the right thing.
As for me being honest with my buyers. Have you spoken with any of them? Or ever even seen one our puppies? You need not reply to that but please consider that you may not be an expert in all the fields.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,537 Posts
I don't know who you spoke to at OFA, or how you asked your question to them--certainly if you phrased your question "Are preliminary x-rays a good tool in evaluating breeding stock?" well, yes, you're going to get an affirmative answer. That is the whole purpose of prelims--to see what the results are for those animals under the age of 24 months, then repeat at the age of 24 months or older, for the actual official clearance. Even the OFA website has its recommendations regarding its breeding principals--it doesn't state breed clear "prelims" to clear "prelims."

I've copied and pasted OFA's Recommended Breeding Principals below; also, prelims and official clearances are rated differently--the ratings of the prelims are done in house by one of the OFA radiologists; the official, final ratings are done by a panel of 3 separate radiologists (chosen randomly from about 20 to 25 nationwide).

I'm not a breeder, but gee, I did bother to look these things up.

OFA's Recommended Breeding Principals

Breed normals to normals
Breed normals with normal ancestry
Breed normals from litters (brothers/sisters) with a low incidence of HD
Select a sire that produces a low incidence of HD
Replace dogs with dogs that are better than the breed average
 

·
the party's crashing us
Joined
·
4,417 Posts
Although I prefer not to get into dispute over this I feel my hand is being forced.
I spoke with OFA and yes according t them preliminary reports are still considered health clearences. I did not contradict myself.
If prelims were clearances they'd give you a number. GRCA doesn't agree with you on this either.

<<The pups are taken to the vet at 3 days and throughtout the first 8 weeks and although we do not get OFA, CERF or PennHIP on them they are in fact vet checked and cleared by our vet.>>

I mean clearances at 2+ years of age. OFA & CERF. Not to mention allergies, epilepsy, and surely, one of your dogs has died of cancer within 10 years. Otherwise we all need to look into these pedigrees that have NO health problems.

As for why on the PennHIP well to put it in the most simple terms PennHIP takes the breed and compares them verses all dogs like OFA it is a more precise reading regardless of what the average buyer knows. The added expense is not that much and the dogs are under a light anestiha for either tests.
OFA rads are graded compared to others of their breed as well. A "fair" in greyhounds may be an "excellent" in bulldogs. OFA and PennHIP are also looking at different things anatomically, one is not more precise than the other. PennHIP also does not diagnose as dysplastic or not, again -- they just give a number. Even severely dysplastic/arthritic dogs will get a PennHIP number.

we are simply trying to do the right thing.
As for me being honest with my buyers. Have you spoken with any of them? Or ever even seen one our puppies? You need not reply to that but please consider that you may not be an expert in all the fields.

Do the right thing = get OFA clearances, not just prelims. Don't pass prelims off as clearances.

You may go several generations without clearances or just on prelims but when one puppy comes up dysplastic, how do you answer to those owners? You DIDN'T do everything you could. You took a little shortcut for some reason. I wish you the best of luck but would encourage you to get final clearances on your breeding stock ESPECIALLY if you are advertising as such on your website.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top