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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Whiskey Creek Goldens
P.O. box 1064 Scappoose Or, 97056

I have a friend who is looking for a golden retriever puppy.
Does anyone out there in Oregon or Washington know if this breeder is reputable?

Thanks!
 

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Have your friend proceed with eyes open and to make sure that any health certs are up to date - looks like CERF eye checks are out dated. There are some "embellishments" on the webstie - ie the AKC win that is referred to on the webiste (for Maggie - dam of current litter) was a 1st place in the Am Bred Class. She was the only dog entered.

**Actually, there ARE no CERF eye checks - maybe they had an exam in 2006 but if they did they never sent it in. Nor is there a cardiac clearance although their web site states "SAS clear". I'd be very cautious.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you so much, Pointgold. I don't want to have anyone make the mistakes I made when picking my beautiful Summer Lynn. It was a painful journey and a $13,000.00 loss for us. However, she was meant to be with us and is worth every cent spent.
 

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Just checked a bit further - the sire of the litter is listed as Ch Terins In The Public Eye. (It's actually Teran's) He is a 9 year old dog, and is also not in the CERF data base, nor does he have a cardiac clearance, although both are claimed on the website of his owner. I'm not sure why he has a Teran's prefix, since Teran is Terry Neider, in in K9 his breeder is listed a M. McNeil. In any regards, some things just don't seem to add upso I would encourage lots of questions be asked.
 

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"Just checked a bit further - the sire of the litter is listed as Ch Terins In The Public Eye. (It's actually Teran's) He is a 9 year old dog, and is also not in the CERF data base, nor does he have a cardiac clearance, although both are claimed on the website of his owner. I'm not sure why he has a Teran's prefix, since Teran is Terry Neider, in in K9 his breeder is listed a M. McNeil. In any regards, some things just don't seem to add upso I would encourage lots of questions be asked."

I am the owner of Maggie and a gal by the name of Mary Peed is Winks owner. She bought him from Terry when he was about two years old along with a bitch by the name of Magenta. Mary finished winks CH in Portland oregon. Magenta had a medical issue and had to be payed I do not know if she was shown

You are speculating that our dogs do not have the proper clearances, I assure you that they do. I have record of all. So I do not choose to send them on to OFA that is my choice. I would be happy to provide them to anyone who asks.

I am a member or our national and local golden club in good standing and am also listed on the breeder list. I abide by the code of ethics set forth by the national club.

Maggie is a UKC and international CH. Maggie was only in one AKC show as she hated to show so why stress her out over it. She and Wink together produced two lovely litters. Please feel free so snoop some more please take note of Willa, Madison and Paige all three are showing and are beautiful examples of the breed.

everyting on my website is accurate and true. www.whiskeycreekgolden2.com

happy snooping:wavey:
 

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whoever your friend goes with make sure they see the up to date clearances on the heart, hip, elbow and eye. Have them read the Puppy Buyers Fact Checker at the top of the forum.
 

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Hmmm....if you subscribe to the COE of the National Club (I assume that you are referring to GRCA) you would have the clearances. And they WOULD be sent to OFA and CERF, because not doing so does not constitute having clearances.
 

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Hmmm....if you subscribe to the COE of the National Club (I assume that you are referring to GRCA) you would have the clearances. And they WOULD be sent to OFA and CERF, because not doing so does not constitute having clearances.


Hmmmmmm..... The GRCA code states that they should be done and at what age NOT that you have to mail them into OFA. I have the original docks signed by the vets and once again I give them to every puppy buyer I home a puppy with. That's more than I can say for many breeders. Can you show me where is states "because not doing so does not constitute having clearances." in the code? I can't find it. You might be wrong I know of may breeders that Never send them in. Why should I have to pay for something I already have it is a suggestion not a demand.
 

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It says a report from OFA or Penn Hip... as they're specialists in their field.
a. Hips – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals; or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older.
d. Elbows – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals at 24 months of age or older.
 

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Hmmm....if you subscribe to the COE of the National Club (I assume that you are referring to GRCA) you would have the clearances. And they WOULD be sent to OFA and CERF, because not doing so does not constitute having clearances.


Hmmmmmm..... The GRCA code states that they should be done and at what age NOT that you have to mail them into OFA. I have the original docks signed by the vets and once again I give them to every puppy buyer I home a puppy with. That's more than I can say for many breeders. Can you show me where is states "because not doing so does not constitute having clearances." in the code? I can't find it. You might be wrong I know of may breeders that Never send them in. Why should I have to pay for something I already have it is a suggestion not a demand.
Semantics, perhaps?



From the GRCA:

"A puppy's sire and dam can be screened for these health issues to minimize the risk that their puppies will be affected. A conscientious breeder will provide you the full AKC registered names or registration numbers of the parents. Use this information to verify their health clearances here. "

And FROM THE GRCA's CODE OF ETHICS (you'll see that your interpretation is not accurate...)


GRCA members are expected to follow AKC requirements for record keeping, identification of animals, and registration procedures.
Animals selected for breeding should:
(i) be of temperament typical of the Golden Retriever breed; stable, friendly, trainable, and willing to work. Temperament is of utmost importance to the breed
and must never be neglected;
(ii) be in good health, including freedom from communicable disease;
(iii) possess the following examination reports in order to verify status concerning possible hip dysplasia, hereditary eye or cardiovascular disease, and elbow
dysplasia:
a.​
Hips – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals; or PennHIP at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from
a health registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country (e.g. Canada - Ontario Veterinary College; Great Britain - BVA/KC Hip Score) A
report from the accepted health registry of another country may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.
b.
Eyes – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology (ACVO) or from a BVA/KC approved ophthalmologist
(Great Britain), or a report from the Canine Eye Registry Foundation. For dogs outside the U.S., a report from an ophthalmologist as recommended by
the Golden Retriever club of that country after 1 year of age. Examinations must be done within 12 months of a breeding..
c.
Hearts – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Medicine, Cardiology Specialty or a certification by the Orthopedic
Foundation for Animals by a cardiologist (the number will be followed by a C) at 12 months of age or older.
d.
Elbows – for U.S. dogs, a report from Orthopedic Foundation for Animals at 24 months of age or older. For dogs outside the U.S., report from a health
registry approved by the Golden Retriever club of that country at 24 months of age or older. A report from the accepted health registry of another country
may be used for U.S. dogs that are 24 months of age or older when x-rayed.
Breeders of Goldens in the U.S. who use health registries from other countries should fully reveal their reasons for doing so. Consideration should be given also
to other disorders that may have a genetic component, including, but not limited to, epilepsy, hypothyroidism, skin disorders (allergies), and orthopedic disorders
such as osteochondritis.
(iv) Assuming all health and examination reports are favorable, the age of the breeding pair also is of consideration. Generally, a Golden Retriever is not physically
and mentally mature until the age of 2 years; an individual dog’s suitability as a breeding animal is difficult to assess until that time.
 Adopted: April
20, 1997, by GRCA Board of Directors; revised to include elbow clearances in May, 2001

(Rev. 5-01, 2-08)

Just look at the GRN advertising guidelines as regards clearances - it makes it pretty clear what the GRCA's stance is, as well...
 

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Unless read and rated by the panel at OFA, you have nothing more than a radiograph taken by a practioner. It is not a "clearance". And practioners are often incorrect in their assessments of hips and elbows.
 

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Am I missing something? Every dog on their website that is listed with having hips/elbows is verified on OFA with a -VPI (verified permanent identification). The ones that aren't look too young to get clearances....

Now, they don't all have CERF or Cardiac on the OFA website but that doesn't mean they weren't done. It just means they didn't pay the fee and send the record in to be listed....
 

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Your site claims CERF-Normal. You are not sending them to CERF, so they are not. They may be Ophthalmologist Tested, but they are not CERF Normal.

I will add that most breeders DO send in their eye and cardiology exams so that there is a complete record in one place. Why not? The cost is minimal.
 

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What am I missing as well?

Current litter due July 2010 has both Sire & Dam listed on OFA for hips & elbows. MANY breeders never send eye & heart REPORTS into OFA & CERF but provide a copy. The GRCA code of ethics does accept REPORTS for eyes & hearts - does not say ONLY an OFA certificate or CERF certificate is accepted:

<<b. Eyes – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmology (ACVO) or from a BVA/KC approved ophthalmologist
(Great Britain), or a report from the Canine Eye Registry Foundation. For dogs outside the U.S., a report from an ophthalmologist as recommended by
the Golden Retriever club of that country after 1 year of age. Examinations must be done within 12 months of a breeding..
c. Hearts – appropriate report from a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Medicine, Cardiology Specialty or a certification by the Orthopedic
Foundation for Animals by a cardiologist (the number will be followed by a C) at 12 months of age or older.>>


Whiskeycreek's website could be a bit more complete with listing links to k9data & OFA on her dogs but overall, I don't find her website misleading. She gives dates of last eye clearances and dates of heart clearances. Perhaps if she scanned the REPORTS and included those eye & heart reports - others would feel better about her breeding practices?


(The original poster asked about the litter out of Maggie - I cannot find Maggie listed on her website but did check the Teran's Sire and his hips & elbows are listed on OFA.)
 

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Pointgold has a point.......CERF is a registry. If an AVCO diplomate has issued a report, that IS acceptable. Whether the owner chooses to send the appropriate fees into CERF and register their dog in the database - well, that is up to each owner. If the AVCO diplomate's name and date of the exam is listed with the findings being normal - that should be acceptable. Listing the dog as CERF -normal , well - honestly that isn't correct because you never mailed in the report to CERF so you can't claim CERF- normal.


Taken from the CERF website:
<<Dedicated to the elimination of heritable eye disease
in purebred dogs through registration and research.
WHAT IS CERF?

The Canine Eye Registration Foundation (CERF) is an organization that was founded by a group of concerned, purebred owner/breeders who recognized that the quality of their dog's lives were being affected by heritable eye disease. CERF was then established in conjunction with cooperating, board certified, veterinary ophthalmologists, as a means to accomplish the goal of elimination of heritable eye disease in all purebred dogs by forming a centralized, national registry.

The CERF Registry not only registers those dog's certified free of heritable eye disease by members of the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmologists (A.C.V.O. ), but also collects data on all dogs examined by A.C.V.O. Diplomates. This data is used to form the CERF data base which is useful in researching trends in eye disease and breed susceptibility. Not only is this data useful to clinicians and students of ophthalmology, but to interested breed clubs and individual breeders and owners of specific breeds.

HOW DOES CERF WORK?

After the painless examination of the dogs eyes, the A.C.V.O. Diplomate will complete the CERF form and indicate any specific disease(s) found. Breeding advice will be offered based on guidelines established for that particular breed by the genetics Committee of the A.C.V.O. Bear in mind that CERF and the A.C.V.O. are separate, but cooperating entities. The A.C.V.O only provides their professional services and expertise to ensure that uniform standards are upheld for the certification of dog's eyes with the CERF organization.

If the dog is certified to be free of heritable eye disease, you can then send in the completed owner's copy of the CERF form with the appropriate fee ($12.00 for the original CERF Registration, or $8.00 if it is a recertification or kennel rate). Hybrid Registration is $15.00 per dog. Re-CERF or kennel rate (10 or more new) is $12.00 per dog. CERF has adopted a policy effective Jan. 1st, 2001 (by post mark) that a permanent identification in the form of microchip, tattoo or DNA profile will be needed for any dog to be registered with CERF. The certification is good for 12 months from the date of the exam and afterwards the dog must be reexamined and recertified to maintain its' registration with CERF.

Regardless of the outcome of the dog's exam, the research copy of the CERF form will be sent to the CERF office at V.M.D.B (Veterinary Medical Database) where its information will be entered into the database for that specific breed. This information will be used in generating research reports, but the individual dog's identities will become confidential and will never be released.

WHAT CAN CERF DO FOR ME?

- Provide a registry of purebred dogs that have been certified free of heritable eye disease.

- Provide various memberships which include the CERF Newsletter, and various registration and research reports to keep you up-to-date on various topics in canine ophthalmology.

- Provide various reports on the prevalence of eye diseases in certain breeds, including reports generated by the Veterinary Medical Data Base (V.M.D.B.) which compiles data from 24 participating veterinary colleges in the U.S. and Canada.

- Provide a centralized source to answer questions like: - "Is there an A.C.V.O. Diplomate located near me?" -"Are there any published materials on eye disease in dogs that can help me to better understand my dog's condition?"

If you are interested in learning more about the CERF organization, the CERF process, or would like to inquire about the CERF status of a prospective mate for your dog, please don't hesitate to call or write. We'd love to assist you!




Contact Information.




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