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Just want to put this out there, I live very close to Arlington VT. There are many great vets around the area, and a handful of great golden breeders in the area who do things the right way. It would be very easy to network with these breeders to ask for help or advice if Ocean Breeze wants to get serious about the CoE and obtaining clearances.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Hi. No, I was not refused a dog. It never got that far as I was asking questions and my spidey sense went up when the parents did not have OFA's. In fact, HERE is the EXACT RESPONSE from oceans breeze I got when asking why no OFA's.......

******** Both have had their pre lims on hips and passed . We do not do OFA's they are not dependable . We have never had any problems with our dogs with hips,elbows , eyes or hearts and as far back as 6 generations their have never been an issue. But I understand if that is what you require. I have just done so much research and found that these tests really don't guarantee anything. We sent in x-rays to OFA same dog ,same x-rays one passed and one failed. this was the same dog. So that made me think how accurate are they. It also has been proven hips, and elbows are 90% of how the puppy is taken care of and feed in the first year of his /her life. Our dogs are all performance dogs that can jump and run lure courses with no problems. If they had any hip/elbow problems they would not be able to do these things without issues


SO - THIS is the exact response from oceans breeze breeder I got when thinking about getting 1 of their puppies. I came here because THAT is what is wrong with some breeders. Telling people this, some who are DESPERATE! For a family member and will believe what they say. I have had goldens my entree life and know what to look for. What is very sad is if they are going to breed their bitches 2x a year, they should get OFA's so they at least know the product they are sending out into the world, at the very least, can't come back and haunt them.....If 1 of the pups has an issue in the future then they can at least solidly stand by their tests and say they did the best in researching the best pairings.
 

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That response is all BS. They do Prelims and tell you they passed but yet they tell you they aren't doing OFA because they aren't reliable lol. From my understand about OFA, you can't send the same X-Rays in to be evaluated a second time, they will refuse the submission, so based on that, they are lying to you. They are making that up to cover up the fact they don't want to do the clearances and "sell" you their puppy.


These are living animals, there is no guarantee with health clearances, just stacking the odds in your favor that the puppies from dogs with clearances, should not suffer from those ailments.
 

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I would also like to add that on their " puppy application " they directly reference limited AKC registration on their puppies. To regular Joe dog buyer, they have no idea what this means....

*****6.We sell our puppies on a limited AKC registration unless other arrangements are discussed. Limited Registration means you can enter your dogs in AKC events like obedience or agility but for conformation events you can't enter. Offspring of a limited registration dog male or female can't be registered with AKC. You understand you would be buying the puppy for a family pet and would not be able to breed the dog

WHY can't they breed their dog? because the AKC has taken the stance that LIMITED AKC puppies aren't quality breeding stock. they aren't being bread to better the breed.

******Puppies can be assigned full or limited registration by the breeder. Limited registration is for puppies that the breeder does not consider breeding quality; if they are bred, their puppies cannot be registered. The individual puppy is not registered unless the registration form is filled out and mailed to AKC.


With OFA's being SO easy to obtain on these breeding dogs...IF they are no issues as they say going back at least 6 generations.... PLEASE! get at least the core 4's! Listen. Stuff happens with dogs. Even the best offspring can develop HUGE issues. But as a reputable breeder, if a dog comes back with issues at the very least you can stand proud knowing you had no idea that it would be the result.....You did all the proper testing. Nature just won out. .
 

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Sometimes nature wins. It just is.

And they are not being honest- they do prelims to be able to have a remote idea of what they are looking @ hip/elbow wise but since they don't stay on OFA (and depending on when sent in and whether initialed to release fails) and may never be there to start with. Their dogs don't have agility or lure titles, so that may or may not be true. And these are the kind of 'breeders' no good breeder would want having a full reg puppy- so how in the world would that discussion even take place?
And ditto on the repeated rads. didn't happen.
 
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Plus - just want to add - no responsible breeder will ever mislead a potential buyer into thinking that OFA clearances 100% guarantees a puppy will not get hip or elbow dysplasia. In fact, the OFA publishes the rates of risk when you breed two cleared dogs, one clear one not, two affected, etc. There are no 100% guarantees when it comes to living creatures. But it does help to improve the chances of getting a healthy dog and it does help the breed overall if dogs with hip or elbow problems are not allowed to reproduce.

So the argument that "we've done research on OFA and found it doesn't guarantee anything" is no big shocker to anyone (just read the OFA site) - but is not a valid argument for not getting clearances done.
 

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Random curious question I have to ask - especially of Sunfire people on this forum.

What I can see is these breeders were originally involved with the B's at Sunfire, and they got their first breeding dog (or I assume their breeding dog) from them. That breeding dog, they got full clearances on - very likely with the guidance of the B's. And likely got contact with a good stud dog thanks to the B's?

My assumption anyway. I'm not going to go too crazy trying to study pedigrees and snoop around. :smile2:

But they have since apparently fallen off the wagon. Bred multiple litters with no clearances on the parent dogs. And are still leaning heavily on the Sunfire influence? From I can tell.

I guess what my question is = would this be a case of a breeder being burned by a puppy person who got a full registration breeding bitch from them and have since gone further off the beaten trail, including playing stupid or lying to puppy buyers and helpers.

And then, at what point is a breeder like Sunfire or others going to stop selling full registration dogs to people who are going blow it like this?
 

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Blowing it like this is any good breeder's nightmare. It's why we can't sell a newbie a full reg puppy. It's why perfectly nice people who might would've turned out to be a benefit to the fancy end up never doing anything w their dogs. And it's why so many gorgeous puppies are in pet homes.
It's also why so many of us are iron fists with our stud dogs' get.
You can see looking at a pedigree exactly where it was that someone made a mistake.
It can be seen easily, Book/Biewer sold a bitch to the Decs, who apparently bred her (at least) twice. I'd wager B/B governed who they bred her to. The Decs sold a dog to Ocean's Breeze- didn't have a kennel name of their own and were probably thrilled someone came to them wanting a show dog.. of course, no one who really shows dogs is going to go to a newbie to get their next show dog, so that in itself is suspicious. We can find this scenario over and over in many less-than pedigrees, and less-than breeding programs. It's the moment a good pedigree goes bad, in the hands of those who don't care as much for the breed as they do their pocketbook.
 
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I want to start this review by stating how much I love my 16 month old Golden Retriever, and how I am forever grateful to have her. I post this review to state that I will never return to Oceans Breeze Golden Retrievers for another dog, nor would I ever recommend them to anyone in search of a Golden Retriever.

I picked up my dog in August of 2018. I was told that she came from parents, grandparents, and great- grandparents with great lines, and OFA ratings of good to excellent hips. For anyone new to Golden Retrievers, a very common, inheritable disease in pure bred large dogs is hip dysplasia. This disease is cripping and life-long. It has major implications on a dog's quality of life. I was so happy to hear that my dog was coming from such great lines of breeding. I was naive and trusted that this information was true.

Sharon and Pat, the breeders, created an amazing Facebook group, called Oceans Breeze Family (OBF). Every family who purchased a dog from them was invited. The group seemed like a wonderful, supportive community of people who shared stories and pictures of their dogs. All was great, until another dog owner posted a concerning question about her dog's hips. This is when Sharon and Pat began lying, hiding information, placing blame on the innocent, and deceiving members.

Long story short, the father of 8-9 litters of puppies (Independence Day, "Indy") has MODERATE HIP DYSPLASIA. Sharon and Pat lied to every Oceans Breeze puppy owner. Clearly, Indy had hip dysplasia, which again is a GENETIC, INHERITABLE LIFE-LONG DISEASE, when they bred him. When the owner of the puppy who had concerns about her dogs hips (he was stiff and limped after running, was wincing in pain, and was very lethargic), Sharon and Pat told her "it's just growing pains, your dog's parents both have god hips"). When I posted that Indy was diagnosed with MODERATE HIP DYSPLASIA in August of 2019, Sharon and Pat denied this. Indy's hip x-ray ratings is listed in a public database, the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA).

Several MAJOR issues: Indy's hips were not x-rayed until AGE 6, after he fathered 8-9 litters. First, how could Sharon and Pat confidently say that he had a rating of "GOOD" hips? Second, when Indy's MODERATE HIP DYSPLASIA was revealed (when they finally got his hips x-rayed in August of 2019), why did Sharon and Pat FAIL TO DISCLOSE this GENETIC, INHERITABLE LIFE-LING DISEASE to every single one of the Oceans Breeze dog owners? Indy fathered or is some way directly related to every single Oceans Breeze puppy. When confronted on this information, how could Sharon and Pat DENY that Indy's hips are in fact, not only NOT "good", but MODERATELY DYSPLASTIC.

The last issue is how disgustingly RUDE, DISMISSIVE, and DISRESPECTFUL Sharon and Pat were to the owner of the puppy whose hips, at only 16 months old are already MILDLY DYSPLASTIC. Sharon and Pat's only solution to this injustice of deceit was to take her dog back, and give her one from a new litter of dogs whose parents will be screened for hip dysplasia. Why would any dog owner want to give their dog back? When I suggested that this dog owner should receive a refund of her $1,500 to put toward medical bills (the $500 that she spent to get her dogs hips x-rays), and the ongoing, life-long medical treatments that her dog will need to address his dysplastic hips, I was told to mind my own business, and "stop stirring up trouble."

I'd finally like to address the disgusting living conditions that Sharon and Pat reside in. They have probably 20+ dogs in their house. These dogs are kept in crates all day, every day, with the exception of 30 minutes that they are let out to play. These dogs are not given the proper life, nor attention. When I picked my dog up, she was covered in feces. When a friend of mine picked her dog up, she later learned that he came home with fleas. Another member of Oceans Breeze shared me with privately, that his dog came home with a rash all over his face. Sharon and Pat make their living off of breeding dogs. They are irresponsible breeders who breed too many dogs at once. The end result is an overabundance of dogs that do not have homes. Sharon and Pat have been suspended from Facebook on a continual basis for trying to sell the overflow of puppies on Facebook.

When looking for a Golden Retriever, you should be able to trust that the breeders are responsible, knowledgeable, and truthful. Sharon and Pat are none of these. It took me almost a year and a half to see the truth. Other members will probably post reviews that they are always responsive to questions, always supportive, and always here to help. Yes, Sharon and Pat were responsive to questions; however, were their responses correct? No. Were their responses based in any sort of research or evidence-based recommendations? No. When this dog owner asked about her dog's stiffness, limping, and pain, Sharon and Pat said it's "growing pains." If this dog owner had listened to Sharon and Pat, she would have never known that her dog has hip dysplasia, and she would have never gotten him the early treatment to make his life the best it can be given his diagnosis. What dog at 16 months (this is considered an adult dog), is stiff and limps as a result of growing pains? They are done growing. For anyone with any degree of common sense (let alone dog breeders!), this makes absolutely no sense. Shouldn't a responsible breeder recommend that she take her dog to the vet to make sure nothing is wrong? I'd like to think so.

I am disgusted, disappointed, and truly sickened not only by the horrific living conditions, but by the complete ignorance, deceit, and disregard when their members confront them on such an important issue. The end result of hiding, and then denying the issue of hidden hip dysplasia from families of 8-9 litters of puppies, was being removed from the Oceans Breeze Family group. What type of "family" throws you out when you bring an important issue to the forefront? Think about that when considering Oceans Breeze breeders.

There are so many breeders out there. Waiting for a puppy from a reputable, responsible, and knowledgeable breeder is worth the wait. To be honest, I am not sure how much longer Oceans Breeze will remain in business. Animal control, when (not if) when called, would immediately shut the entire business down, which quite frankly is long overdue.
 

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You seem to have a problem with these people. I saw Apple’s and Indy’s OFA results and both have passed. You all seem to be assuming things . Loki is neutered and they have a couple others that are spayed and neutered. They where looking for a dog for their son that was from Dockdiving lines and it was a male not a female. I set up their website for them and nothing was mentioned about OFA’s I have been with these ladies for a few years now and know they are not in it for the money. It seems like you are saying things that are not true and starting trouble. I have not mentioned this to them because you seem to be a very unhappy person who likes to start trouble. Maybe someone should look into your life and see what you do that others don’t approve of. You are all a bunch of nasty people who have no clue about these women and how awesome their dogs are.
OCEANS BREEZE GOLDEN RETRIEVERS ARE AWESOME DOGS.
So.... what say you now that Indy's OFAs are not just a little bit failed but moderate? It's obvious IF they showed you anything it was falsified.
And you never did tell me your dog's reg name.. since you claim to have the core 4 on your dog.
People like this start their own trouble by lying.
OTOH- I think given the timeline this must be one of the ones you arranged clearances for. I hope you will either get all the rest of them done, or talk these people into altering and placing their animals- and not breeding ever again.

sspector- I'm sorry for the puppy you are referencing, and hope you do not have issues w your own. Believing people you want to believe without verifying is never going to be a good method of being sure what you are buying. Thank you for your post.
 

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I am so sorry... for all you and your pup are facing. But thank you for sharing your story. The GRF tries so hard to get people to understand why getting clearances is so important. It's not just facing a lifetime of health issues but the conditions most of these animals are kept in. It breaks our hearts when people refuse to acknowledge it's so much more than just getting a puppy just to be getting a puppy. It's also about supporting this type of breeder. Why anyone would want to contribute to this escapes me.
I understand budgets but honestly, save up for a year and get your puppy from a responsible breeder. BE A RESPONSIBLE BUYER! Buying from a breeder that only breeds for profit, that take short cuts (no clearances) is trashing the breed you are about to purchase. Why would you not want to have a healthy, well bred puppy when you KNOW the breeder you picked is irresponsible... much less to get on a waiting list for one of these pups!!
It's like buying a car with no transmission, why does anyone do this?
Thanks again for sharing!!!
 

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I see they have removed Indy’s hip rating from the OFA database. The change history on his k9data page is very interesting though. His hips were initially listed as “redo in 6 months.”
 

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I see they have removed Indy’s hip rating from the OFA database. The change history on his k9data page is very interesting though. His hips were initially listed as “redo in 6 months.”
I saw that too.. suspect Lesley was on the ball and also saw it, got the OFA rating before they had it removed.. thank you BLAZENGR!
And I expect to see them try to remove from k9data too.. too bad.
I'm equally sure Lesley made a photocopy of the record.

All that effort just so they can deceive more puppy buyers downline.

Also interesting- if one looks @ this dog on AKC one does not see a single entry in any event- they just listed on k9data all the random play titles-CGC, FO,USGI,RATN,CT,TK- but AKC doesn't show a single entry in anything. FOR SURE this dog is NOT a CT. It's a laughable claim. I removed it from K9data.
 

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Since there is no longer a record for hips in the OFA database, I removed it from K9data. However, all of those title abbreviations are for events for which the owner has to submit documentation to AKC to receive a title certificate. In other words, they aren't really AKC events, but AKC accepts and recognizes them. They are exceptionally hard to police, and most people don't have a clue that TKN is superceded by TKI, and then TKA, etc. Same with RATN >> RATI, etc. Subpar breeders tend to put these titles in A LOT because it looks like they are doing something with their dogs, but it is hard to prove, and (quite honestly) some of them are just ridiculous.
 

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and just fyi- since none of those certificates are on AKC record for this dog, he actually only has certificates, not titles. They obviously didn't want to pay the $$ to make them titling events... not to belittle the pet person who goes and gets a Trick cert- it's fun- but it's not any indication a dog should be bred simply because he can shake hands and lie down and roll over on command. .. or signal where the rat is hidden in a hay bale.. the FO thing is from the Working Dog registry, it stands for Family Dog (I think)... mostly though, it seriously blows my mind they threw CT in there, a title he does not have.
 
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For one thing this is all a lie. Dogs are vet checked and do not live in filthy conditions. They are seen in the community and events all over. They play outside for more than 30 minutes a day. We are all dealing with the person who dog is showing mild signs also The dog in question was upgraded to mild and has been renoved from breeding. The breeder who sold the dog to them sold a dog prone to dysplasia also and should be shut down also. All their new dogs have been OFA checked and have gotten good results. Their male was just done and waiting on those results. They have stopped their breeding until all results are back and have a lot of satisfied people. One person has had a dog with mild hip dysplasia and it is being taken care of. Maybe you ought to check into the other breeder in the area selling dogs for twice as much with no OFA’s . I know this person who is complaining and I have proof her dog did not go home dirty the owners take photos of the puppies with the people before they leave and post them on their page. Nobody has ever contacted them about fleas, dogs with fecal on them or a rash on the face. I am now a silent partner with them and we are starting all over. You can all continue bashing someone because of one person being a spoiled little brat.
 
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